Just because I feel Boga has better aspects to his game than Willian doesn't mean I think Willian is a bad player, because Boga is an exceptional talent himself. What I meant and should have elaborated was that at this particular moment willian should be taken out of the firing line. Even Jose agrees but dosen't trust the other wingers so sticks with him.

 

But you can't just throw a youngster like Boga into the starting 11 of a Premier League side competing for every competition they are involved in. Boga has never played a senior game in his life, for all we know he may not be even good enough for the Championship. The gap in skill between the Premier League and the youth is huge. If anything, you are the one that is understimating Willian by suggesting we drop him for a kid that hasn't played a single senior game yet.

Guanches is clearly on a wind up, in this thread and others.

Boga could be world class and take the PL by storm for all we know. Most Academy watchers think he will definately make it here. It is a case of when rather than if

But you can't just throw a youngster like Boga into the starting 11 of a Premier League side competing for every competition they are involved in. Boga has never played a senior game in his life, for all we know he may not be even good enough for the Championship. The gap in skill between the Premier League and the youth is huge. If anything, you are the one that is understimating Willian by suggesting we drop him for a kid that hasn't played a single senior game yet.

 

You're right it is a massive step up from youth level to first 11 PL but I would like to see Boga get some minutes in a match. or at least be on the bench.He has looked the stand-out in the youth team on may occassions, even more so than Baker and Loftus-Cheek so there would be no harm in putting him on he bench against Watford. Have to say I am getting more and more frustrated with Willian. Ability to run a lot and track back is not enough, Not only is he not scoring, it's hard to remember the last time he skinned a defender and created anything noteworthy.

I meant to post this here:

 

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/26336-following-our-nearest-and-dearest-rivals-2014-15/?p=935991

Ramires is struggling with injuries, he cannot play full games Jose has said as much. Willian has a hell of an engine on him but just does not offer enough end product around the box. Why cant we try him alongside Matic?

 

Ramires was an attacking midfielder and converted to play further back, Willian could do the same, push Cesc further forward. Hazard, Cesc and one of Oscar, Schurrle or a new signing.

I meant to post this here:

 

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/26336-following-our-nearest-and-dearest-rivals-2014-15/?p=935991

 

 

So in this we have to use Willian as the Mata replacement, because that's basically what he is. Mata was sold. Willian was given the first choice spot. And the comparisons are bleak at best. Mata contributed so much to us going forward, and he's doing the same at Man utd, whilst Willian for all his running and closing down, simply doesn't contribute enough. Mata got 26 assists in 2 seasons in the PL. Willian is on course for about 5.

 

He does contribute in pressing and winning the ball, which can lead to goals and attacks, but as far as taking personal responsiblity for making or scoring a goal, he is very poor and nowhere near the numbers an attacking player should be getting for a team who wants to win multiple trophies.

Very interesting comparison. Everyone could see how Mata didn't fit in to what Jose wanted from his front three players, and that Willian's energy and workrate were huge pluses for Jose, but when you analyse what the team has lost since Mata's departure you can see a huge problem.

I've always thought there was a lot more to Willian's game than workrate, but the more you see him you wonder if there is. Mata brought goals and creativity that we have sacrificed for a more high-energy game that seems to be draining the players, especially when you don't rotate them successfully.

 

EDIT: Why is this in our rivals' thread??!!! Will re-post in the Willian  thread!

Disagree about a lack of creativity and goals, even in yesterday's defeat we created enough to be 3 up early on. Our game is now about quick transition and counter, and mata simply wouldn't suit that at all unfortunately.

The constant attacks on Willian.

Cahill, Ivanovich and Matic all directly at fault for Tottenham goals tonight and far more worthy of criticism. JT also didn't cover himself in glory but, apparently, the biggest faults always to seem to lie with Mikel or Willian.

Jut because other players were worse doesn't make him immune to critism, you're so quick to jump down people who critise Willians throat Just, you done it to me just the other day.

Cahill, Ivan, Matic & Terry I agree were hands down the worst on the team yesterday, but Willian hardly covered himself in glory, provided nothing in attack, and we got absolutely pounded down our right hand side and it's his defensive ability that everyone on here seems to rave about.

Disagree about a lack of creativity and goals, even in yesterday's defeat we created enough to be 3 up early on. Our game is now about quick transition and counter, and mata simply wouldn't suit that at all unfortunately.

No, you're right that we have improved there as team, but in exchanging Mata for Willian we put his workrate before Mata's creativity and goals. I'm not saying Willian hasn't contributed a lot, but he doesn't provide the goals or creativity you would want from an attacking midfielder

Another game and more goals and assists for Oscar and Hazard.

Willian is seriously getting left behind now and I do think it is cause for concern that the attacking output from the right wing is so much worse than what Oscar and Hazard are producing.

There's been a persistent rumour that Salah could be joining Bersiktas this month and if he dies leave maybe we will be seeing an attacking player to arrive who will be looking to give us something else in the final third.

No, you're right that we have improved there as team, but in exchanging Mata for Willian we put his workrate before Mata's creativity and goals. I'm not saying Willian hasn't contributed a lot, but he doesn't provide the goals or creativity you would want from an attacking midfielder

No one could argue that willian is more creative than mata, that would be foolish. But mourinho chose a style of football that mata can't play in, and William can, well could until the last few months of poor play from him.

Willian, Shurrle and Salah are just not good enough to be playing for Chelsea on a consistent basis. 

 

Willian is clearly the best on the ball between the three, but the end product is absolutely dire from every one of them. 

 

The right wing is the definite weak link in the chain and it needs sorted. Our bench looks pretty weak when the starting 11 is out. 

There's been a persistent rumour that Salah could be joining Bersiktas this month and if he dies leave maybe we will be seeing an attacking player to arrive who will be looking to give us something else in the final third.

The other Hazard is doing pretty well in the Bundesliga according the reports.

Has anybody here seen Thorgan play? Would he be any good for our right wing?

The other Hazard is doing pretty well in the Bundesliga according the reports.

Has anybody here seen Thorgan play? Would he be any good for our right wing?

Last I read was we were planning on selling Thorgan this month for around £7m despite his impressive performances on loan.

Willian, Shurrle and Salah are just not good enough to be playing for Chelsea on a consistent basis. 

 

Willian is clearly the best on the ball between the three, but the end product is absolutely dire from every one of them. 

 

The right wing is the definite weak link in the chain and it needs sorted. Our bench looks pretty weak when the starting 11 is out.

To be fair mate, Willian is the only one who has had a consistent run in the team, it's not easy for players to come in for one game and have a blinder when they've been out the loop for months. The same thing happened with KdB, limited opportunities but everyone saying not good enough, I agree I don't think they'll cut it, but they've hardly had a fair crack at it.

I agree in principle, but the time thats has been given has been wasted for the likes of Salah, he looks embarrassingly bad. 

 

Shurrle has potential to improve, but he is just a bit flaky for me, too lightweight and his shots are at best ambitious and at worst as tame as a pass. 

 

Not convinced on any 3 of them, but Willian has very nice dribbling and ball retention skills….sadly thats all I see in him. 

Edited January 2, 201511 yr by Zola

I agree in principle, but the time thats has been given has been wasted for the likes of Salah, he looks embarrassingly bad. 

 

Shurrle has potential to improve, but he is just a bit flaky for me, too lightweight and his shots are at best ambitious and at worst as tame as a pass. 

 

Not convinced on any 3 of them, but Willian has very nice dribbling and ball retention skills….sadly thats all I see in him.

I don't disagree, but even Salah has had very little games times, but I'm with you 100% that when he has, he has looked terrible.

Schurrle on the other hand I think has been either really good or really bad, I'd be interested to see how he done with a month in the team consistently.

On Willian I agree those are his strengths and I love how he can quickly turn away from players almost Hazard-esque but unfortunately looking back through his career stats, his numbers have always been poor and I can't see that improving greatly anytime soon.

Even if we remove his output thingy aside, he just doesn't contribute much in attacks he barely causes trouble in final third or oppositions half, or threaten them with creativity or trickery. That guy is just a mindless runner who can only run and retain ball imo.

 

There are players like Iniesta, Silva, Modric, Kroos etc.. these guys also doesn't have great outputs, but the attacking threat they pose are miles ahead of Willian hardly poses any threat.

 

And people defend him because he's good defensively, it's just a myth. He's bad defensively, he just runs and runs that's it.

Defensive work and running the whole game tirelessly are two other things. He isn't good defensively.

Edited January 2, 201511 yr by CFCBlue12

Willian is like a dog, all running and chasing. 

His goal and assist record was never great before we signed him.

 

Jose messed up with this signing.

At the moment he is so far away from a player being worth £30 million, or the player who scored two goals at Stamford Bridge. I like the guy, feel quite bad for him but he has to do more.

At the moment he is so far away from a player being worth £30 million, or the player who scored two goals at Stamford Bridge. I like the guy, feel quite bad for him but he has to do more.

 

I think we are all agreed on that. The worry is, whether he has it in him to do so - does he actually have another level or what we have seen up to now - is that basically it?

How long does he need to take himself to another level? I mean that lad has played about 60 games already.

Yeah you're right he has had way too long. It'd be nice if he was actually putting in some great crosses like most right wingers do, but that isn't even happening.