Are we going to sell anybody ? We have two midtable teams in our squad !!!

Are we going to sell anybody ? We have two midtable teams in our squad !!!

 

 

It is a tough predicament.  WE don't sell, because we want to make sure we have squad depth; then, when we have the players we want, we don't have any kind of bargaining chip to offload the players we no longer need.  It's why I think the sales of Lukaku, De Bruyne, Mata, and Ramires were able to fetch such high prices.  Sold them at a time we weren't desperate to get rid of.

idk where to post this since his thread's locked so i'll just post it right here

Sky sources understand Newcastle United remain in talks to sign Christian Atsu from Chelsea, but they're also looking into the possibility of signing Callum McManaman from West Brom

according to gladbach fans and insiders christensen will complete his deal with them tomorrow

 

is our board that stupid?

Well no because its not going to happen.

Omeruo joins Alanyaspor on loan....

8 minutes ago, the special one said:

Omeruo joins Alanyaspor on loan....

We should put this guy out of his misery already. 

9 hours ago, Remodez said:

We should put this guy out of his misery already. 

And Piazon who joins Fulham on loan... 

Edited August 31, 20169 yr by the special one

11 hours ago, Remodez said:

We should put this guy out of his misery already. 

The same with many others. Atsu, Bamford, Piazon, just sell them, even if it's just for a couple of million. They aren't going to make it here.

54 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

The same with many others. Atsu, Bamford, Piazon, just sell them, even if it's just for a couple of million. They aren't going to make it here.

 

I dont know why we keep on loaning out all these people instead of just selling them.

 

Just loan the ones who actually need playing time and have potential, the vast majority of the loanees have 0 chance of making the first team

38 players worth of 124 million euros out on loan. This sham needs to be ended. If it was actually helping us in getting players through to our team, I would have understood it, but this has gone way beyond being a "FAILURE". 

As for who should we get rid off:

Bekanty Victorien Angban 
Christian Atsu 
Baba Rahman 
Patrick Bamford 
Nathan Baxter 
Mitchell Beeney 
Jamal Blackman 
Dion Conroy 
Juan Cuadrado 
Cristian Cuevas 
Alex Davey 
Matej Delac  
Islam Feruz 
Michael Hector 
Jordan Houghton
Tomas Kalas 
Kenedy 
Alex Kiwomya 
Matt Miazga 
Nathan 
Kenneth Omeruo 
Danilo Pantic 
Lucas Piazon 
Loic Remy 
Jhoao Rodriguez 
Wallace 
 

27 players I feel have no chance of making it at chelsea or ever again getting a minute again.

12 players that I would keep are:

Tammy, Ake, Baker, Boga, Brown, Christensen ,Jake Clarke,Colkett, Musonda, Pasalic, Traore, Palmer 
Surprisingly, these 12 players have cost us 6.5mil euros total. Our scouting system is another that needs to be sorted.

 

Edited September 2, 20169 yr by didierforever

33 minutes ago, didierforever said:

38 players worth of 124 million euros out on loan. This sham needs to be ended. If it was actually helping us in getting players through to our team, I would have understood it, but this has gone way beyond being a "FAILURE". 

 

While I agree we should be getting rid of the some of the deadwood (Piazon, Atsu, Omeruo, Kalas, Bamford) I wouldn't go as far to say the "sham" is a failure but only on the basis the club isn't at a significant disadvantage financially, i.e. if the sham breaks even for the next say 10 years it's a question of when (not if) a top player comes through the system. For me we shouldn't be cutting the number of players on loan, but replacing those with little resale value/potential with new prospects.

Edited September 2, 20169 yr by the special one

5 minutes ago, the special one said:

While I agree we should be getting rid of the some of the deadwood (Piazon, Atsu, Omeruo, Kalas) I wouldn't go as far to say it's a failure but only on the basis the club isn't at a disadvantage financially. For me we shouldn't be cutting the number of players on loan, but replacing the deadwood with new potential.

I would say "Failure" because while it may be generating revenue (somehow) or helping us deal with FFP (no idea), for me, as a fan, Loans are supposed to be a bridge between youth team and first team. Considering the fact that not ONE "youth player" has made it out of it (Courtois does not count as he was a mega million buy), we have failed miserably in implementing the loan system. 

The youth player closest to making through is RLC and he has not been on a loan and for his sake, I hope it stays the same

Edited September 2, 20169 yr by didierforever

16 minutes ago, didierforever said:

38 players worth of 124 million euros out on loan. This sham needs to be ended. If it was actually helping us in getting players through to our team, I would have understood it, but this has gone way beyond being a "FAILURE". 

As for who should we get rid off:

Bekanty Victorien Angban 
Christian Atsu 
Baba Rahman 
Patrick Bamford 
Nathan Baxter 
Mitchell Beeney 
Jamal Blackman 
Dion Conroy 
Juan Cuadrado 
Cristian Cuevas 
Alex Davey 
Matej Delac  
Islam Feruz 
Michael Hector 
Jordan Houghton
Tomas Kalas 
Kenedy 
Alex Kiwomya 
Matt Miazga 
Nathan 
Kenneth Omeruo 
Danilo Pantic 
Lucas Piazon 
Loic Remy 
Jhoao Rodriguez 
Wallace 
 

27 players I feel have no chance of making it at chelsea or ever again getting a minute again.

12 players that I would keep are:

Tammy, Ake, Baker, Boga, Brown, Christensen ,Jake Clarke,Colkett, Musonda, Pasalic, Traore, Palmer 
Surprisingly, these 12 players have cost us 6.5mil euros total. Our scouting system is another that needs to be sorted.

 

Can't really argue with that, although a couple of the Keep ones you list are getting to the stage where they need to impress or they too will be added to the discard list - Brown and Boga.

Christensen remains the player I have biggest hope for. We MUST take him back and give him a chance next season.

 

 

 

There are a couple of players on that list who are clearly beyond their sell-by date as far as youth prospects go. The likes of Feruz, Piazon, Atsu and Wallace are never going to make it and should probably be discarded. Rémy looks to have run his course here as well.

There are a few I have genuinely never seen play before - Joao Rodriguez, Cristian Cuevas, Danilo Pantic - so obviously I can't comment with any authority on their status as prospects, but I have little confidence that they'll ever be integrated into our squad. Omeruo looked really promising a couple of years ago, but it seems like his career has been pretty serious scuppered by injuries.

A few of them have barely had a chance - for example I wouldn't dream of getting rid of Kenedy or Rahman; Miazga and Nathan have only been with us for a year (or less) as well. The list is clearly bloated but that's no reason to start culling players for the sake of it. The sheer numbers suggest that most of these players aren't going to be of the required standard, but we shouldn't start kicking players out simply because a few of us are feeling a bit twitchy - it's ridiculous. Stay the course.

35 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

There are a couple of players on that list who are clearly beyond their sell-by date as far as youth prospects go. The likes of Feruz, Piazon, Atsu and Wallace are never going to make it and should probably be discarded. Rémy looks to have run his course here as well.

There are a few I have genuinely never seen play before - Joao Rodriguez, Cristian Cuevas, Danilo Pantic - so obviously I can't comment with any authority on their status as prospects, but I have little confidence that they'll ever be integrated into our squad. Omeruo looked really promising a couple of years ago, but it seems like his career has been pretty serious scuppered by injuries.

A few of them have barely had a chance - for example I wouldn't dream of getting rid of Kenedy or Rahman; Miazga and Nathan have only been with us for a year (or less) as well. The list is clearly bloated but that's no reason to start culling players for the sake of it. The sheer numbers suggest that most of these players aren't going to be of the required standard, but we shouldn't start kicking players out simply because a few of us are feeling a bit twitchy - it's ridiculous. Stay the course.

 

I didn't even notice Kenedy in the list! Bad shout didierforever - you can't seriously believe we should be getting rid of him when he's looked decent up to now and should improve with getting regular game time at Watford? Not sure about Nathan - never seen him play.

 

9 minutes ago, Nibs said:

 

I didn't even notice Kenedy in the list! Bad shout didierforever - you can't seriously believe we should be getting rid of him when he's looked decent up to now and should improve with getting regular game time at Watford? Not sure about Nathan - never seen him play.

 

I dont see a future for him. We have Hazard, Willian,Moses as well as the likes of musonda who are way ahead of him in terms of talent. I just cant see him being a part. Maybe as a LB, but I like the look of Ake there. 

Yes, he has looked decent, but I feel he does not have the required technical ability to succeed.

Edited September 2, 20169 yr by didierforever

43 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

There are a couple of players on that list who are clearly beyond their sell-by date as far as youth prospects go. The likes of Feruz, Piazon, Atsu and Wallace are never going to make it and should probably be discarded. Rémy looks to have run his course here as well.

There are a few I have genuinely never seen play before - Joao Rodriguez, Cristian Cuevas, Danilo Pantic - so obviously I can't comment with any authority on their status as prospects, but I have little confidence that they'll ever be integrated into our squad. Omeruo looked really promising a couple of years ago, but it seems like his career has been pretty serious scuppered by injuries.

A few of them have barely had a chance - for example I wouldn't dream of getting rid of Kenedy or Rahman; Miazga and Nathan have only been with us for a year (or less) as well. The list is clearly bloated but that's no reason to start culling players for the sake of it. The sheer numbers suggest that most of these players aren't going to be of the required standard, but we shouldn't start kicking players out simply because a few of us are feeling a bit twitchy - it's ridiculous. Stay the course.

Stay the course for what?

Like I explained before, loans are supposed to be for the development of players and bridging the difference between youth and first teams. Our loan system looks more like Human trafficking. 

And of course fans have a right to get twitchy given the loan system has no end product - nothing ridiculous in that.

6 minutes ago, didierforever said:

I dont see a future for him. We have Hazard, Willian,Moses as well as the likes of musonda who are way ahead of him in terms of talent. I just cant see him being a part. Maybe as a LB, but I like the look of Ake there. 

Yes, he has looked decent, but I feel he does not have the required technical ability to succeed.

We'll just have to disagree on this one. From what I've seen, with the exception of Hazard, Kenedy is one of the best dribblers and most skillful in the squad - far more natural ability than Moses or Willian. 

Of course he will need more than that, but at only 20 it is far too early to discard such a raw talent.

 

What was the number 38 odd?

You would think we have almost £150 odd million of talent out there but that's depreciating every season. Quite clearly we should be moving a good few of them on as it's clear as day they have no chance of making it at this club...the likes of Remy, Bamford, Piazon, Atsu and so on.

 

19 minutes ago, didierforever said:

And of course fans have a right to get twitchy given the loan system has no end product - nothing ridiculous in that.

No end product? The profit from Thorgan Hazard's sale contributes towards Eden Hazard's salary. The profit from Djilobodji's sale may help to keep ticket prices fixed. Our loan system may not be bringing players of the requisite quality through to the first team but if it helps the club to be run sustainably without Roman's intervention while adhering to FFP it's a success for me. Every little helps.

Edited September 2, 20169 yr by the special one

12 minutes ago, the special one said:

No end product? The profit from Thorgan Hazard's sale contributes towards Eden Hazard's salary. The profit from Djilobodji's sale may help to keep ticket prices fixed. Our loan system may not be bringing players of the requisite quality through to the first team but if it helps the club to be run sustainability without Roman's intervention while adhering to FFP it's a success for me. Every little helps.

Papy cant be taken in a vaccum here. Last year we bought, Papy, Hector, Kenedy, Pantic, nathan, Baba for a combined fee of about 39 mil pounds. A whopping 39mil pounds. I doubt we can sell Baba for 20mil. This season we made a 5 million loss on marin. I doubt we even end up making ANY profit on the whole loan circuit. 

While we may have found a loop hole in FFP, I hardly doubt THIS is the reason for our overall finances to be running well. I would say its more from the massive TV deal, Yokohama deal etc etc.

Edited September 2, 20169 yr by didierforever

1 hour ago, didierforever said:

Stay the course for what?

Like I explained before, loans are supposed to be for the development of players and bridging the difference between youth and first teams. Our loan system looks more like Human trafficking. 

And of course fans have a right to get twitchy given the loan system has no end product - nothing ridiculous in that.

My point is that we shouldn't automatically sell a huge number of players (assuming a - they want to leave, and b - another club wants to buy them) simply because some of our fans have a poor startle response.

Also, I probably wouldn't talk about human trafficking to refer to a context in which the "trafficked" make upwards of £20,000 per week. Of course fans have a right to get twitchy - that doesn't mean their views should be taken seriously.

2 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

My point is that we shouldn't automatically sell a huge number of players (assuming a - they want to leave, and b - another club wants to buy them) simply because some of our fans have a poor startle response.

Also, I probably wouldn't talk about human trafficking to refer to a context in which the "trafficked" make upwards of £20,000 per week. Of course fans have a right to get twitchy - that doesn't mean their views should be taken seriously.

YES. its all the fans fault. they have a poor response/some of us are just twitchy, because clearly, the loan system is paying us massive dividends. Half the first team has players from the loan system, right? Some of us might be twitchy, but its still better than being YES MEN and pretending everything is hunky dory. 

3 hours ago, didierforever said:

YES. its all the fans fault. they have a poor response/some of us are just twitchy, because clearly, the loan system is paying us massive dividends. Half the first team has players from the loan system, right? Some of us might be twitchy, but its still better than being YES MEN and pretending everything is hunky dory. 

Do you really expect a loaning system to be able to produce half of a title winning especially a loaning system which is still in its infancy andwas primarily made to comply with FFP?

If so I believe that a few unrealistic, I think almost everyone will agree that it could be more successful and most most would probably agree that we should potentially about it in a more stramlined fashion. 

But has the loaning system done what it was initially set out to do? I would say yes, it has allowed us to compete financially since it's inception whilst complying to FFP and whilst not barring much fruit we have current 4 member of our squad, 1 starter (Coutois,Chalobah,Moses, Solanke) who have been part of our loan army and have also made huge profits on the likes of De Bruyne, Lukaku, Hazard and even djilobodji.

I also think it I'd likely to here more fruit in the next few years with the likes of Christensen, Traore and Musonda all likely to either feature in our first team or be hot comodities around the globe ( I would obviously prefer the first) and players like ( Ake, Baker and Tammy) a bit too far off like dream.

Could we be doing better if things were some differently who knows, but I can say for a certainty culling players for the sake of it is not a wise move for the club financially, whether that should or shouldn't matter to the fans.