Fact is he was one of the best defenders in the 3rd best league in the world during his brief stint (Bundesliga) and one of the best defenders in the 5th best league in the world (Ligue 1). How this makes him an average defender is mindboggling. He has outperformed all the expectations of Werder Bremen fans and saved them from relegation. He also outperformed Christensen

 

Based on your assessment that he's been one of the best/most consistent defenders in Europe over the last few years do you not think it strange that a club bigger than Bremen aren't after him? 

 

Surely with his apparent reputation in France and now Germany do you not think one of the big boys would be sniffing around? 

 

Instead he joined Chelsea for pocket change and was shipped out after 60 seconds of playing time.

 

If he does leave you will have had Mourinho, Hiddink and Conte deem him surplus to requirements at Chelsea within a year... Two of those coaches let's not forget are noted for their defensive coaching ability. 

I don't think Mourinho even considered him.  He'd never seen him play when signed.  I don't think he could have made an accurate decision on the players current or future ability.  In all seriousness Jon has probably seen him play more than Mourinho, though there is obvious bias, I'm only going to count 1 manager as not rating him so far.  Mourinho based his decision of absolutely nothing, as his style and it works for him most of the time.

But isn't it another Roman squad signing that as you argued in another thread automatically makes us a better team?

Your hatred of Jose is beyond belief.

Definitely not Bamford; couldn't even get off the bench for Palace and when he did he wasn't one bit exciting

Definitely not Bamford; couldn't even get off the bench for Palace and when he did he wasn't one bit exciting

did you read the thread title. What players Should we get rid off.

That's plain assumption.

Jose will have watched him, he trained with the squad on a daily basis. If he was good enough he would have come in at some point. Both Gus and Jose didn't think he was at the level required.

I would trust people who have experience and a background in player performance and development to judge a player than some random boy on an internet forum.

Just my take on it.

The same José who thought Debruyne, Mata and Lukaku were sh*t? Sorry I don't trust his decisions!

Papy is that you?

Yeah, am back!

The same José who thought Debruyne, Mata and Lukaku were sh*t? Sorry I don't trust his decisions!

Did he think they were sh*t?

I'm fairly sure that KDB and Lukaku were the ones who asked to leave because they were unhappy with their playing time/role in the squad.

Jose may have had a development plan for them both, much like how Zouma was eased into the team but now we'll never know but let's not make baseless statements about a manager as skilled as Mourinho.

Also let's not forget his decisions led to our first league title in five years. The fourth of Roman's time at the club and the third Jose had won for us so he's decision making was clearly pretty good overall.

The same José who thought Debruyne, Mata and Lukaku were sh*t? Sorry I don't trust his decisions!

Mata obviously didn't fit into Jose's plans for whatever reason. I know that many were surprised when he was sold in January 2014 but I don't think he's been a massive loss the way many initially anticipated as he hasn't been the same player since he left us.

 

De Bruyne and Lukaku both requested to leave because they couldn't hack the fact that they had to earn their way into the team rather than getting into the first team on a regular basis based off talent alone.

 

Let's not change history for the sake of slagging off our most successful manager of all time. I think I'll stick to trusting managers like Jose who watch these individuals day in day out rather than what a keyboard warrior says on a forum.

Edited June 28, 201610 yr by Jezz

Mata obviously didn't fit into Jose's plans for whatever reason. I know that many were surprised when he was sold in January 2014 but I don't think he's been a massive loss the way many initially anticipated as he hasn't been the same player since he left us.

De Bruyne and Lukaku both requested to leave because they couldn't hack the fact that they had to earn their way into the team rather than getting into the first team on a regular basis based off talent alone.

Let's not change history for the sake of slagging off our most successful manager of all time. I think I'll stick to trusting managers like Jose who watch these individuals day in day out rather than what a keyboard warrior says on a forum.

Did he think they were sh*t?

I'm fairly sure that KDB and Lukaku were the ones who asked to leave because they were unhappy with their playing time/role in the squad.

Jose may have had a development plan for them both, much like how Zouma was eased into the team but now we'll never know but let's not make baseless statements about a manager as skilled as Mourinho.

Also let's not forget his decisions led to our first league title in five years. The fourth of Roman's time at the club and the third Jose had won for us so he's decision making was clearly pretty good overall.

If he never thought they were sh*t, why is there no buyback clause in there deal?

Mata obviously didn't fit into Jose's plans for whatever reason. I know that many were surprised when he was sold in January 2014 but I don't think he's been a massive loss the way many initially anticipated as he hasn't been the same player since he left us.

De Bruyne and Lukaku both requested to leave because they couldn't hack the fact that they had to earn their way into the team rather than getting into the first team on a regular basis based off talent alone.

Let's not change history for the sake of slagging off our most successful manager of all time. I think I'll stick to trusting managers like Jose who watch these individuals day in day out rather than what a keyboard warrior says on a forum.

Jose allowed Mata to go because he believed he had a better player in Oscar. Well we all saw how great Oscar was for us last season and how his good form saved Jose from being sacked! Wow!

If he never thought they were sh*t, why is there no buyback clause in there deal?

The manager isn't in charge of things like that lol.

It's the people who deal with transfers/contracts who are in charge of all those kind of things.

Why people want to blame Jose for absolutely everything is completely mental not to mention delusional.

Some people have been playing too much Football Manager lol.

If he never thought they were sh*t, why is there no buyback clause in there deal?

You'd have to ask that to the person(s) responsible for negotiating transfers which wasn't Mourinho.

You'd have to ask that to the person(s) responsible for negotiating transfers which wasn't Mourinho.

Just speculation, but I would assume someone with some sort of football acumen has to have input into these contracts, otherwise there would never be buyback clauses.  A buyback clause is there because you still value the player to some degree and can see him improving.  If it's not the manager who has this input, then who is it?  I sure don't want lawyers and number crunchers making that decision.  

Just speculation, but I would assume someone with some sort of football acumen has to have input into these contracts, otherwise there would never be buyback clauses.  A buyback clause is there because you still value the player to some degree and can see him improving.  If it's not the manager who has this input, then who is it?  I sure don't want lawyers and number crunchers making that decision.  

 

My guess would be that decision in some way would come down to a club's director of football, it is often their job to sculpt their teams' transfer policies and strategies. 

 

Most "managers" are now titled as being "first team coaches" because their role and responsibility is just that, to coach the squad as apposed to managing the club. 

I saw Frankfurt are asking for loaned players from both us and City. This could be a good option for those who have some experience but arent quite good enough yet to break into our team. Solanke, Miazga and Baker come to mind immediately

I saw Frankfurt are asking for loaned players from both us and City. This could be a good option for those who have some experience but arent quite good enough yet to break into our team. Solanke, Miazga and Baker come to mind immediately

 

Didn't Piazon go to Frankfurt and get very few minutes? I'd rather ship a few more to Betis where we know the manager and can hopefully get the youngsters more playing time.

Didn't Piazon go to Frankfurt and get very few minutes? I'd rather ship a few more to Betis where we know the manager and can hopefully get the youngsters more playing time.

 

I think there is some rule that limits la liga teams from getting too many players on loan from one team.

Didn't Piazon go to Frankfurt and get very few minutes? I'd rather ship a few more to Betis where we know the manager and can hopefully get the youngsters more playing time.

He actually got pretty significant minutes, he just didnt produce.

He actually got pretty significant minutes, he just didnt produce.

 

1055 minutes over an entire season isn't much though. Not when Musonda got 1233 minutes in half a season at Betis even though he contributed less in terms of goals.

Pretty sure im late on this one, but Stipe Perica has been sold on a permanent transfer to Udinese! What wonderful news, hopefully this is the start of many more to come.

Really happy we've rejected a bid from Borussia monchengladbach for just under 15 million. Considering the crazy market these days, with Xhaka for 32, Kante for the same. I think that is already the siginig of the summer but considering where he played 2 years ago, the inflation is insane.

 

Nevertheless, the former is more what it should be compared to, he won BMG player of the season over Xhaka so 15 million, not even that is a joke. Chelsea in general don't usually get high fees for players, barring David Luiz/Mata/Lukaku maybe, he might move for bigger money, we get mugged off quite a lot, De Bryune and Schurrle are other examples. Yeah we got good money but the profit over one year of development can double or even triple.

 

So on to the main topic of our players that are loaned out and which should we sell. There's too many to follow, from Baker, to Brown, Solanke, Nathan in Vitesse, Ake, Chalobah brothers, Boga, Musonda, Pasalic, Boga, Kalas, Van Ginkel (who is under the radar, had a really good end to the season with PSV and hopefully plays in preseason).

 

Anyway there's so many we should really be hoping they have that one spark out season and either bring them into the first team or move them on.

 

                                                            Christensen/?   Zouma/Clarke Salter  Tomori/Ake next year

 

                                              Dave/Aina                                                                                           Baba/Kenedy (probably move forward)/ DaSilva?

Pretty sure im late on this one, but Stipe Perica has been sold on a permanent transfer to Udinese! What wonderful news, hopefully this is the start of many more to come.

How much did we get for him? I know we bought him for a 2 and half million Euros.

How much did we get for him? I know we bought him for a 2 and half million Euros.

3.2m according to this Sky Sports article.

 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/15116/10496890/what-do-chelsea-need-in-the-summer-transfer-window