Wish him luck especially with the suits doing all the controlling in the background......still it says a lot about the state of English Football if Sam is the best we can offer up to the World     All we've done since 1970 is try and copy every other winning side and failed miserably and in doing so have lost our identity in the process.  The talent has always been there...it's just been mismanaged and stifled. 

Edited July 22, 20169 yr by CFCCAN

I like Sam, one thing guaranteed is he'll be decisive.

Unlike Roy who didn't know his best 11 or how to line them up either.

The talent has always been there...it's just been mismanaged and stifled.

How much do you think is due to mismanagement and players being stifled as opposed to player psychology (egos, selfishness, passion, attitude, performing under pressure, etc)? I don't know if you can lay overwhelming blame on the managers. The two are admittedly connected. The manager selects the players after all, and part of his job is to manage player psychology.

I'm also not sure whether I agree that the player skill - I prefer the word skill over talent because I think of talent as something innate that needs to be developed into skill - has always been there to win titles.

I mention that because I've seen people complain about Allardyce not having a record of winning trophies, and appointing him won't bring trophies. Not on this board, but if you look at Redcafe or Bluemoon, there are a lot of those comments.

Would England win trophies with anyone unless they're unusually lucky à la Greece 2004?

Certainly they have enough to beat Iceland, but I don't think they even have as much collective skill as Belgium.

People talk about how Portugal were weak winners. Are they weaker than England? I can see an argument both ways for that.

Looking at the winning teams of the last decade, every one except maybe Portugal 2016 have had more collective skill than the England team at that time. Italy 2006, Spain 2008-2012, Germany 2014. I'd say that most runners up also had more collective skill. France 2016, Argentina 2014, etc.

Perhaps expecting England to be able to go all the way is unrealistic. Winning a title would be a massive overachievement and would require tremendous luck.

Edited July 22, 20169 yr by offside

He's officially signed the contract. Sammy Lee, whom he worked with at Bolton, has been hired as assistant.

I expect Sunderland to announce Moyes soon. There has been speculation that Bruce's departure from Hull might cause Sunderland to reconsider, but I don't see that happening.

No idea how true this is, reports are that the Hull owner told Bruce that he could only sign free agents. They have something like 13 fit squad members. With that kind of owner, I can't imagine any manager wanting the job.

It's an appointment that shows where England really are right now; a lower tier, second rate side.

I actually think it's a good appointment. It's no secret that he's wanted the England job for years and his style of play may just work. I expect England to be a side that's hard to beat, much like Portugal at the Euro's (but minus a superstar player like Ronaldo).

It's an appointment that shows where England really are right now; a lower tier, second rate side.

I think England are in the second tier of international football on paper, but their results have been below the second tier.

Countries I would consider 1st tier on paper, not necessarily actual results. In other words, on paper they'd expected to beat just about anyone.

Argentina

Belgium

France

Germany

Spain

Based on this list, Belgium have been major underachievers and Spain lately as well.

2nd tier on paper. Beating teams in the above list would be an overachievement, and losing to teams in the lower lists would be an underachievement.

Lots of underachievers here. Some of them underachieve so much that they don't seem to be in the second tier on paper until you go through their lineup and see how many top players there are.

Brazil (they've gone to sh*t and are no longer 1st tier on paper. Neymar is their only real quality player)

Chile

Croatia

England

Italy

Netherlands

Portugal

Switzerland

Uruguay

This is off the top of my head, and I'm sure I'm missing some. I'm also sure you'll disagree with some of the classifications.

Below the second tier, there are plenty of countries that consistently overachieve and can beat second tier teams. Some of them overachieve so much that intuitively they don't seem to be in as low a tier until you go through their lineup and see how few quality players they have. I would say Colombia and Greece are two examples.

But due to the quality gap, they have trouble beating 1st tier teams, even underachieving 1st tier teams.

Through random factors and good/bad days, beating/losing to teams of 1 tier higher/lower aren't big upsets.

The problem with England, and they are definitely not the only ones in the top two tiers, is that they lose to teams 2 or more tiers below them. Sometimes much more below them.

Edited July 22, 20169 yr by offside

Interesting question: Who is the best player in the England squad? Not in terms of tournament performance, but overall.

It seems to me that, except for Iceland who got destroyed by France in possibly the most lopsided game in the tournament, all the quarterfinalists (ie made it farther than England) had at least one player clearly superior to whoever is the best English player, ignoring positions (not comparing players of the same position but rather overall player quality).

Even if the player didn't do well, such as Lewandowski, perhaps their mere presence imparted some structure and confidence, I don't know.

Belgium: Hazard, maybe de Bruyne and Courtois

France: Pogba, maybe Griezmann and Lloris

Germany: several

Italy: Buffon

Poland: Lewandowski

Portugal: Ronaldo, Pepe

Wales: Bale

Is there really any need to call him  ' Big Fat Sam '    What's that all about ? 

 

I get the FSW tag for you know who because I think it's widely accepted by most Chelsea fans he was reviled and disliked by the majority of us and with good reason, but come on. I think Mr Allardyce deserves a bit more respect.

 

I find it hard to disagree with some of the current thinking that Sam Allardyce is an almost perfect fit for where England are right now as an International team. Mid table at best, quite possibly bordering on relegation fodder or worse still, a league below. Allardyce is a Manager who has been in charge of teams at a similar level for a good many years now, and his overall record at that level is not too bad at all. I doubt very much a team under him would collapse so pathetically as we did against Iceland.

 

If not Allardyce, then who were the options ?  Some of the best Managers/ Coaches in the world are either already in, or just about to begin their new jobs in the Premier League this season, that's immediately ruled them out.  Eddie Howe ?  Give the guy a break, he is just embarking on his very promising career and it's far too early for him to risk wrecking it by taking on a seemingly thankless job.

 

I really can't see who else might be better suited to the job to be honest.  Good luck Sam, you are going to need it.

Big Slim Sam? Hardly.

Sammy Lee, Mike Bassett. Does it really make a difference?

If we are going down the back to basics road and looking for someone to come in and really shake the sh*t out of the tree Roy "Mental" Keane would have got my vote. Losing against teams like Iceland wouldn't be an option with Mr Mad Eye. The players would be texting their mums to come and collect them rather than go back in the changing room to face him.

Wish it was Pards tbqfhwy.

Big Slim Sam? Hardly.

Sammy Lee, Mike Bassett. Does it really make a difference?

If we are going down the back to basics road and looking for someone to come in and really shake the sh*t out of the tree Roy "Mental" Keane would have got my vote. Losing against teams like Iceland wouldn't be an option with Mr Mad Eye. The players would be texting their mums to come and collect them rather than go back in the changing room to face him.

I'm hoping Sam can instill into the players the sense of pride in their performance in the same way that Roy would. As for Keane as manager , no way, he isn't English. Personally I like the national team to be representive of England, if we aren't good enough so be it.

I can remember seeing a photo of the England team in training, Hodgson was talking to them and the players were looking at the clouds at their boots, every where but at their coach. I think that those days are now long gone.

Far from the worst appointment, and I think he will do a better job than Roy Hodgson anyway.

If we are going down the back to basics road and looking for someone to come in and really shake the sh*t out of the tree Roy "Mental" Keane would have got my vote. Losing against teams like Iceland wouldn't be an option with Mr Mad Eye. The players would be texting their mums to come and collect them rather than go back in the changing room to face him.

As for Keane as manager , no way, he isn't English. Personally I like the national team to be representive of England, if we aren't good enough so be it.

Keane is a spoiled prick of the highest order and says and does things that are worse than anything Hoddle could have gotten sacked for. I'm counting down the days until Keane gets upset at the FAI and goes on strike again, this time as a coach. In fairness, the FAI is a really incompetent frustrating group.

Keane coaching England would go down even worse in Ireland than England because of the history of the two countries.

On the plus side, hopefully it would end Eamon Dunphy's w**kfests over Keane.

Edited July 24, 20169 yr by offside

Fair play to Big Sam, he couldn't have come at a better time.

Expectations will be firmly in the dirt post Iceland, any progress will be seen as an achievement.

So long as he operates on merit rather than reputation and ditches players who aren't deserving of being there (Rooney, Willshire, Barkley, Hart, Sterling etc) and looks beyond who somebody plays for and at how they are playing then I'll be happy. Coleman had Joe Allen get a team of the tournament performance and he'd only played a few times for the bin-dippers. Looking beyond the obvious to build a team is a requirement.

Sam will burst some bubbles and prick some egos. England players clearly have a mental issue in competitions and if Sam can ground them, get them working without fear, he'll do well.

Sam Allardyce's first England squad

England squad in full:

Goalkeepers: Fraser Forster (Southampton), Joe Hart (Manchester City), Tom Heaton (Burnley).

Defenders: Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), Chris Smalling (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City), Kyle Walker (Tottenham Hotspur).

Midfielders: Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur), Michail Antonio (West Ham United), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Danny Drinkwater (Leicester City), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City), Theo Walcott (Arsenal).

Strikers: Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Jamie Vardy (Leicester City).

No Rashford, but shoehorns Rooney into midfield.

Stupid Sam.

12 hours ago, coco said:

No Rashford, but shoehorns Rooney into midfield.

Stupid Sam.

No barkely but Henderson is in? Jesus.

19 hours ago, coco said:

No Rashford, but shoehorns Rooney into midfield.

Stupid Sam.

 

Past mistakes will be repeated.

6 hours ago, dkw said:

No barkely but Henderson is in? Jesus.

Sounds like Hendos about to be named your new captain 

11 minutes ago, Adam said:

Sounds like Hendos about to be named your new captain 

I've just seen that, what an idiot.

Surprised no Carroll and Noble

Allardyce previously said Carroll had a poor work ethic. As for Noble, I'm surprised. I think he'll get a call up in the future. Maybe Allardyce didn't want to give first time call ups to two players from his former club.

Also surprised that Jagielka is back. 

Hmmmm lets hope it is a case of just giving them a good talking too.... Because there is not much in the way of change here