10 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

He is better than VM, he was playing for England at 19, very good burst of pace, can have a shot and it only 23, he could have his uses. Victor was seen as a complete drop pre last season and although he played out his skin was still weak defensively. . 

I  don't think Victor is weak defensively, maybe in the air, but not on the ground. You may have seen him as a complete drop but I used to watch him playing for Wigan and he stood out. His weakness is perhaps more in the final pass in attack. It was his attack limitations that saw him not make it at Liverpool. 

'He rarely gets beaten on the outside, partners well with Dave and mostly gets the block in. He is also quite sound positionally in defense. I think he's an excellent first choice wing back, who would be even better if his crossing was more accurate and if he scored a few more goals. 

I know he's in the last year of his contract and Wenger has said he needs to trim the size of his squad but I don't believe Arsenal would sell to us... Or for as "little" as £25m. 

Happy to be proven wrong though. 

It`s very rearely to see someone to cross from Victor Moses side last season. His zone was solid. Alonso on the other side let a lot of crosses from his zone. And he was often beaten in 1 on 1 situation, while Moses is solid there too.

People are fast to forget, but Moses clean a lot of clear chances in front of the net in our side. And score very important goal against Totteman last season.

Atleast to me hes zone was not a must have world class replacement, but our left zone. Where you get Alonso, who is extremely slow and often get beaten in 1 on 1 situation.

Moses is insanely solid in defence, he need to improve a bit hes attacking game and his final product.
And England national team is not a proof or argument if someone is good or not. I`m sorry but England national team is always being overrated, and always failed to deliver.
Even when they really have great, great players like Lamps, Gerrard, Rooney and so on.

 

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, ozboy said:

 He is also quite sound positionally in defense. I think he's an excellent first choice wing back, who would be even better if his crossing was more accurate and if he scored a few more goals. 

His positioning is quite literally his worst attribute. He is constantly out of position, had no idea were the rest of the mine is so he is keeping players onside all the time. He also has no idea how to time a header, so any jump ball into the zone behind Adpi is dangerous. Azpi isnt a great header either, but he makes up for it with ekite positioning and timing. Athletecism,1 on 1 defensively and  work rate, those are his good attributes.

Youre right paragraf is spot on though, Moses would be better if he was better. 

4 hours ago, brakeit said:

 

It`s worth to spend big on world class players. 100% better to spend 70m. on 1 player, then 50m. on 2 average players, that would never ever be come close to world class.

 

Conte disagrees with you, especially when we have such a thin squad.  For 25m he is a good, versatile signing.  Whether he is better Han Moses sure, debatable.  But we need players.

moses was also covered by azpi all year, and had Pedro tracking back.  And lastly, arsenal weren't in a 3atb system all year, so is wasn't operating at a wb full time.  When they switched he was the only one who could fit the role, and sporadically at that.  Given more coaching from conte im sure he could improve.  

2 hours ago, ozboy said:

 

'He rarely gets beaten on the outside, partners well with Dave and mostly gets the block in. He is also quite sound positionally in defense. I think he's an excellent first choice wing back, who would be even better if his crossing was more accurate and if he scored a few more goals. 

He most definitely doesn't partner well with Dave he lets players in between them uncontested like you saw all last season and against Arsenal and Dave screaming at him. 

He runs forward but finds it near impossible to get a ball in, don't get me wrong he does a job but at a club like Chelsea you need more than a less effective Milner, he was at fault for half of our goals last season, he can use his energy and pace to get back and he can get a foot  in ok but he is far from being a defender...as for excellent first choice wingback not sure what you are watching, take out the romance of last seasons story he isn't good enough, it's clear. 

I think Dave being the centre back behind moses helps him immensely, he can see when he's out if position (which he is often) and fills in brilliantly, covering his defensive inadequacies. That's why it's a good right sides partnership.

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

I think Dave being the centre back behind moses helps him immensely, he can see when he's out if position (which he is often) and fills in brilliantly, covering his defensive inadequacies. That's why it's a good right sides partnership.

Yes and he is also on the side of two other energetic players who provided good cover: Pedro and Kante. 

15 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

He is better than VM, he was playing for England at 19, very good burst of pace, can have a shot and it only 23, he could have his uses. Victor was seen as a complete drop pre last season and although he played out his skin was still weak defensively. The reality is we need a proper set of wing backs VM is a decent back up but that's all he should be. Ox is worth a punt since f**k all else is happening, will fill in the numbers and can be dangerous, not a Chelsea first team player by any means but conte must see a use for him. 

No he isn't, Moses being underrated again and always will be. I actually think for someone who was a winger, defensively Moses is pretty good. I haven't seen him being dribbled past very often, he is better defensively than Alonso is. I'm not against OX signing but i don't think he is better than Moses. Moses season at Wigan before he joined us is better than any season OX has had at Arsenal and he is playing with better players.

2 hours ago, dkw said:

I think Dave being the centre back behind moses helps him immensely, he can see when he's out if position (which he is often) and fills in brilliantly, covering his defensive inadequacies. That's why it's a good right sides partnership.

Interesting point as for me defensively I noticed Alonso struggling defensively at times and of course his centre back was Gary Cahill who is not a natural left footed LCB.

Edited August 9, 20178 yr by Strider6003

Seems a 25mil bid has been officially made. 

Would be a good signing if you ask me. Price not too much, good option for RWB, can cover for other positions in case of injuries, and adds to the homegrown quota. And he's a good player. 

6 hours ago, dkw said:

I think Dave being the centre back behind moses helps him immensely, he can see when he's out if position (which he is often) and fills in brilliantly, covering his defensive inadequacies. That's why it's a good right sides partnership.

Good partnership to save VM from blushing, good partnership by high level football standards?

I'd rather an upgrade that doesn't need babysitting ideally and have him as a back up, I suppose there is an argument that his defensive acumen will improve as he is still new to the role, but I just think he is a limited player on the whole.

 Also judging on the number of times a player gets in between him and Dave like welbeck did on Sunday shows maybe some things you can't learn later in your career.

From some of your posts it seems you play football yourself, defending is mostly instinctual when you have to think too much a mistake comes, that's why conte drills the sh*t out of players so there job is second nature.

learning to defend at his age you will always have slip ups. 

5 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

Good partnership to save VM from blushing, good partnership by high level football standards?

I'd rather an upgrade that doesn't need babysitting ideally and have him as a back up, I suppose there is an argument that his defensive acumen will improve as he is still new to the role, but I just think he is a limited player on the whole.

 Also judging on the number of times a player gets in between him and Dave like welbeck did on Sunday shows maybe some things you can't learn later in your career.

From some of your posts it seems you play football yourself, defending is mostly instinctual when you have to think too much a mistake comes, that's why conte drills the sh*t out of players so there job is second nature.

learning to defend at his age you will always have slip ups. 

About the defending being instinctual, I somewhat agree. Certainly when you're in the midst of the play, but when you're more of a sweeper (my position), you tend to be analysing the game more, looking at where there's space, which opponents are particularly quick, etc.

23 minutes ago, btpark said:

Seems a 25mil bid has been officially made. 

Would be a good signing if you ask me. Price not too much, good option for RWB, can cover for other positions in case of injuries, and adds to the homegrown quota. And he's a good player. 

Who??

6 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

Who??

The ox

Just now, DonAntonio said:

Good partnership to save VM from blushing, good partnership by high level football standards?

I'd rather an upgrade that doesn't need babysitting ideally and have him as a back up, I suppose there is an argument that his defensive acumen will improve as he is still new to the role, but I just think he is a limited player on the whole.

 Also judging on the number of times a player gets in between him and Dave like welbeck did on Sunday shows maybe some things you can't learn later in your career.

From some of your posts it seems you play football yourself, defending is mostly instinctual when you have to think too much a mistake comes, that's why conte drills the sh*t out of players so there job is second nature.

learning to defend at his age you will always have slip ups. 

A bit of both really, aazpilacueta covers Moses's defensive inadequacy while allowing Moses to attack better than most full/wing backs. It works well, though obviously it's more down to azpilacueta being so good in my opinion. 

I've been a defender most of my playing career, and I agree that being able to read a game defensively is something you can't train into a player, just as a top striker instinctively is often in the right place. Drills will do so much, but when you don't have the time to think often you will forget the drills/training and rely on that instinct.

2 hours ago, btpark said:

The ox

My bad, for some reason I thought this was a random rumours thread.

43 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

My bad, for some reason I thought this was a random rumours thread.

It's cool, I wondered for a moment if I'd accidentally posted in the random rumours thread 

Looks like we are willing to go up to £35m for him!

Shows how desperate we are

I think 35 about right for an english player from a top club.

47 minutes ago, evissy said:

I think 35 about right for an english player from a top club.

Huh he plays for Arsenal.

35mil for OX, with 1 year left on his contract!!! Dear Lord.

As i said it many times, that what happen, when the path**** board waited so much. When you go so late with so much sold players, and everyone know you are desperate to bring new players in, that is the price for you.
You going to overpay big.

The problem is we will overpay for completely average players.

Poor Marina, didn`t want to overpay 5 or 10m. for world class players, but will overpay big on average s*** players.

Conta is right to be furious.

If Roman doesn`t fired this 2 idio**, we will be in big trouble, very, very soon.

 

4 minutes ago, brakeit said:

As i said it many times, that what happen, when the path**** board waited so much. When you go so late with so much sold players, and everyone know you are desperate to bring new players in, that is the price for you.
You going to overpay big.

The problem is we will overpay for completely average players.

Poor Marina, didn`t want to overpay 5 or 10m. for world class players, but will overpay big on average s*** players.

Conta is right to be furious.

If Roman doesn`t fired this 2 idio**, we will be in big trouble, very, very soon.

 

She told you that in person did she ? And I wouldn't call OX a sh*t player just because he plays for Arsenal. But yeah sure, we could just buy Toni Kroos, Messi and Bale, if we just throw enough money the player surely wants to come to Chelsea....