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Club Direction. Past, Present, and Future


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http://plainsofalmeria.co.uk/2018/01/08/the-roman-era-2-0-concept-football/

Thought this was a really interesting read, alot of it I agree with. 

It's certainly not a bad time to be a chelsea fan, we are the current champions, we have some fantastic players, a passionate coach, a growing world wide fan base, and probably the best owner in football. 

But are we moving forward? Mistakes have been made in the last 5 years, as there have been at any club, but what do we need to do, in order to get back to competing with the best in Europe? 

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4 hours ago, Chelsbear said:

Until we spend what the top clubs are spending on world class players we will not be able to stay neck and neck with them. 

We'll be one step closer to it once the stadium gets done. This spending won't happen every summer though. Neymar-esque players aren't moving around every year. I think we're well positioned if some of our youth players pan out. Musonda and Abraham represent 200m worth of spending we'd have to do if they weren't already ours. Andreas the same, that's a 50m CB we've got for peanuts. Of course they all won't come good but I think we got on the youth train before most in terms of how heavily we've invested and planned. 

It only takes 1 player turning good to make a class successful. We have several candidates in multiple age groups who are on the right track

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6 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

We'll be one step closer to it once the stadium gets done. This spending won't happen every summer though. Neymar-esque players aren't moving around every year. I think we're well positioned if some of our youth players pan out. Musonda and Abraham represent 200m worth of spending we'd have to do if they weren't already ours. Andreas the same, that's a 50m CB we've got for peanuts. Of course they all won't come good but I think we got on the youth train before most in terms of how heavily we've invested and planned. 

It only takes 1 player turning good to make a class successful. We have several candidates in multiple age groups who are on the right track

We seem to baulking at the 55-60m Sandro is quoted to be fetching. It's not some £140-200 million transfer, given our revenue and sponsorship it should be easily achievable.

I think we are seeing a cut back because of various things including the stadium. The way transfers are going now with the huge inflation fee's I can see us being left behind if we are not prepared to pay what the other top clubs pay.  

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18 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

We'll be one step closer to it once the stadium gets done. This spending won't happen every summer though. Neymar-esque players aren't moving around every year. I think we're well positioned if some of our youth players pan out. Musonda and Abraham represent 200m worth of spending we'd have to do if they weren't already ours. Andreas the same, that's a 50m CB we've got for peanuts. Of course they all won't come good but I think we got on the youth train before most in terms of how heavily we've invested and planned. 

It only takes 1 player turning good to make a class successful. We have several candidates in multiple age groups who are on the right track

Musonda is already 21 and never performed at a senior level anywhere. At his age hazard was french player of the year...musonda can't even warm the bench for us.

Hate to break it to you, but he's not going to make it. I find it baffling that some people think he's the next big Chelsea player. 

Abraham might do alright, I'm yet to be convinced, he's not performed well at Swansea this season which is a shame, hopefully he gets a good 2 year loan spell at a better premier league club to take that step up. Ditto loftus cheek - ideally he gets another season at Palace. 

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how many clubs are genuinly spending big though? let's not forget the biggest, richest club in england, man utd weren't willing to cough up the 50m+ for perisic, despite chasing him all summer. people's views have been skewed because of city and psg. the fact is, even the biggest clubs have to sell to buy and are not able to throw large amounts of money at players. we certainly didn't do too bad in the summer considering what we spent, which was 3x more than real madrid, more than twice of bayern munich, 20m more than juventus, and more than barcelona.

only man city, psg and milan spent more than us in the summer. barcelona spent 100m on dembele and 140m on coutinho, but they sold neymar for 200m so they really only spent about 40-50m. real madrid are only able to spend big this summer if they wanted to because they haven't bought big for a couple windows and they made profit from the morata sale. big clubs aren't spending big, so we are not the only ones. 

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2 hours ago, benjsross said:

Musonda is already 21 and never performed at a senior level anywhere. At his age hazard was french player of the year...musonda can't even warm the bench for us.

Hate to break it to you, but he's not going to make it. I find it baffling that some people think he's the next big Chelsea player. 

Abraham might do alright, I'm yet to be convinced, he's not performed well at Swansea this season which is a shame, hopefully he gets a good 2 year loan spell at a better premier league club to take that step up. Ditto loftus cheek - ideally he gets another season at Palace. 

So if you aren't player of the year by 21 you'll never make it? He's done well in the time he's played here. Well enough to not give up on him becoming a viable player IMO

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3 hours ago, benjsross said:

Musonda is already 21 and never performed at a senior level anywhere. At his age hazard was french player of the year...musonda can't even warm the bench for us.

Hate to break it to you, but he's not going to make it. I find it baffling that some people think he's the next big Chelsea player. 

Abraham might do alright, I'm yet to be convinced, he's not performed well at Swansea this season which is a shame, hopefully he gets a good 2 year loan spell at a better premier league club to take that step up. Ditto loftus cheek - ideally he gets another season at Palace. 

Tbh I would take more of a chance on Musonda specially as Willian and Pedro have been so poor. 

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4 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

So if you aren't player of the year by 21 you'll never make it? He's done well in the time he's played here. Well enough to not give up on him becoming a viable player IMO

I can't think of many players who "make it" who have never played at top flight level to any standard by 21.

He's played twice this season, once against a championship forest where he played well. Another against Everton where he was the worst player on the pitch. If he was doing it in training we'd have seen him play or warm the bench more at least.

He's not going to be worth 100m or a first team player.

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3 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Tbh I would take more of a chance on Musonda specially as Willian and Pedro have been so poor. 

I disagree that they've been poor. They've been good squad players and haven't had a game where they've been as bad as musonda was against Everton.

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8 hours ago, enigma said:

how many clubs are genuinly spending big though? let's not forget the biggest, richest club in england, man utd weren't willing to cough up the 50m+ for perisic, despite chasing him all summer. people's views have been skewed because of city and psg. the fact is, even the biggest clubs have to sell to buy and are not able to throw large amounts of money at players. we certainly didn't do too bad in the summer considering what we spent, which was 3x more than real madrid, more than twice of bayern munich, 20m more than juventus, and more than barcelona.

only man city, psg and milan spent more than us in the summer. barcelona spent 100m on dembele and 140m on coutinho, but they sold neymar for 200m so they really only spent about 40-50m. real madrid are only able to spend big this summer if they wanted to because they haven't bought big for a couple windows and they made profit from the morata sale. big clubs aren't spending big, so we are not the only ones. 

someone else will have the exact figures I'm sure, but we have sold as many as we have bought (oscar, costa and matic is £160m). So to say we've spent a lot of money is incorrect.

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19 minutes ago, Adamrb said:

someone else will have the exact figures I'm sure, but we have sold as many as we have bought (oscar, costa and matic is £160m). So to say we've spent a lot of money is incorrect.

Exactly.

We sold Matic (£35m), Ake (£20m), Costa (£55m), Cuadrado (£18m), Begovic (10m), Chabolah (£6m), Atsu (£6m)

So roughly £150m with other players leaving on free's like Terry freeing up wages.

We brought in Morata (£60m), Bakayoko (£35m), Danny D (£25m), Rudiger (£25m), Zappa (£21m) and Barkley (£15m)

Around £180m

So in reality we have spent about £40 or 50 million outwith player departures while arguably weaking our team in terms of number and quality. That's with us raking in record revenue/sponsorship last season too.



 

 

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4 hours ago, benjsross said:

I disagree that they've been poor. They've been good squad players and haven't had a game where they've been as bad as musonda was against Everton.

Squad players, but they are both having poor seasons. That's why there is a lack of creativity when they play

 

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Musonda and Abraham are nowhere near the first team at this moment. Loftus-Cheek needs more time to develop and it's still early to determine if he's someone good enough for Chelsea or a player who's just decent enough to ply his trade at a club like Palace. We all want our youngsters to become the club's future but sentimentality has no place in building a top club squad. Either you're what we want, or you aren't.

There are some good points in the article but only Roman and Marina really know what the deal is. The case of PSG and Man City flush with oil state money is obvious, but with Pool buying VVD their squad cost is now the same as ours, and that's not counting Keita they spent a fortune on and who's yet to join. So that's our level now.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Chelsbear said:

Exactly.

We sold Matic (£35m), Ake (£20m), Costa (£55m), Cuadrado (£18m), Begovic (10m), Chabolah (£6m), Atsu (£6m)

So roughly £150m with other players leaving on free's like Terry freeing up wages.

We brought in Morata (£60m), Bakayoko (£35m), Danny D (£25m), Rudiger (£25m), Zappa (£21m) and Barkley (£15m)

Around £180m

So in reality we have spent about £40 or 50 million outwith player departures while arguably weaking our team in terms of number and quality. That's with us raking in record revenue/sponsorship last season too.



 

 

I just don't think the current model is sustainable, if we want to keep competing. In the last 4 years we've been able to generate money from selling players that won't necessarily weaken the team. I don't think we have anymore assets left, to generate the sort of cash it would take, to sign players that will improve us, without losing a key 1st team player. 

If you take the right wing spot for example, selling Willian or pedro will be nowhere near enough to bring in a lemar, greizmann, dybala etc. 

It's going to be interesting to see how much we invest in the summer, if we manage to keep hazard, Courtois, and kante. 

We could really do with pulling a couple of rabbits out the hat. Hopefully Barkley is the 1st. 

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7 minutes ago, big blue said:

I just don't think the current model is sustainable, if we want to keep competing. In the last 4 years we've been able to generate money from selling players that won't necessarily weaken the team. I don't think we have anymore assets left, to generate the sort of cash it would take, to sign players that will improve us, without losing a key 1st team player. 

If you take the right wing spot for example, selling Willian or pedro will be nowhere near enough to bring in a lemar, greizmann, dybala etc. 

It's going to be interesting to see how much we invest in the summer, if we manage to keep hazard, Courtois, and kante. 

We could really do with pulling a couple of rabbits out the hat. Hopefully Barkley is the 1st. 

My big fear is the bigger names wanting to move on because we are not investing to bring in the same kind of talent we have had previous. We rely on guys like Tibo and Hazard so often you would think they want some help or if they see us miss out on the bigger players they might say enough is enough.

I think we are seeing the plans for the stadium now in regards to our spending. Similar to what Arsenal went through years ago when they moved.

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8 hours ago, benjsross said:

I can't think of many players who "make it" who have never played at top flight level to any standard by 21.

He's played twice this season, once against a championship forest where he played well. Another against Everton where he was the worst player on the pitch. If he was doing it in training we'd have seen him play or warm the bench more at least.

He's not going to be worth 100m or a first team player.

There are players in our team who don't meet your 'make it' requirement. Kante and Moses off the top of my head are two who didn't play top flight football before 21. Was Morata playing regularly for Madrid when he was 20 or 21? Just checked, Alonso and Pedro also had not done anything in top flight football by 21. 

I think to compare him, or any young player, to Hazard's standard is asking too much. Plenty of players fail to live up to that. It would be great if any of our loan army or academy players got to his level but that doesn't mean they have failed.  

12 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Tbh I would take more of a chance on Musonda specially as Willian and Pedro have been so poor. 

I don't feel like Willian or Pedro have earned a nailed on spot with their performances either. Musonda had been injured recently. He did pull out a win for the development team vs. Portsmouth. 2 goals and hopefully he's shown something to merit some playing time in the busy schedule ahead. 

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2 hours ago, big blue said:

I just don't think the current model is sustainable, if we want to keep competing. In the last 4 years we've been able to generate money from selling players that won't necessarily weaken the team. I don't think we have anymore assets left, to generate the sort of cash it would take, to sign players that will improve us, without losing a key 1st team player. 

If you take the right wing spot for example, selling Willian or pedro will be nowhere near enough to bring in a lemar, greizmann, dybala etc. 

It's going to be interesting to see how much we invest in the summer, if we manage to keep hazard, Courtois, and kante. 

We could really do with pulling a couple of rabbits out the hat. Hopefully Barkley is the 1st. 

I think we will finally start integrating some of the youngsters though not sure if this will be under Conte or his successor.

We have seen via Palace that given a chance RLC can hold down a spot.

Ampadu impressed on his debut.

Musonda looks a real talent, I checked out the Exeter video on his thread and he did not stop running and making himself available.

We also have one of the younger Hazard brothers.

If we are looking to reduce player spending for the stadium rebuild surely some emphasis needs to be made on bringing these players into the first team squad.

 

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My fear is that our selling of players will eventually catch up with us. You see it all the time with teams in the bottom half of the table and Arsenal. Continually sell your players and eventually it will catch up with you. The only thing in the clubs defence is that they haven’t sold any first time players - only squad or unwanted players. 

I also have no issue with the club being astute when it comes to transfers. Azpi, Rudiger, Drinkwater etc were all astute buys who aren’t glamorous but are really effective. 

We could do with a few more of the 21-24 years olds who are showing real promise. Abit like Hazard when we signed him. Perfect age and decent prices. 

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8 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

There are players in our team who don't meet your 'make it' requirement. Kante and Moses off the top of my head are two who didn't play top flight football before 21. Was Morata playing regularly for Madrid when he was 20 or 21? Just checked, Alonso and Pedro also had not done anything in top flight football by 21. 

I think to compare him, or any young player, to Hazard's standard is asking too much. Plenty of players fail to live up to that. It would be great if any of our loan army or academy players got to his level but that doesn't mean they have failed.  

I don't feel like Willian or Pedro have earned a nailed on spot with their performances either. Musonda had been injured recently. He did pull out a win for the development team vs. Portsmouth. 2 goals and hopefully he's shown something to merit some playing time in the busy schedule ahead. 

Check again...Alonso was playing top flight football for Bolton and playing well. Moses was playing premiership for Wigan playing every game. Pedro played for Barcelona B...which is a much better standard than our development team. Musondas experience compared to these players is miles away from them at the same age.

Kante a freak. It happens. The exception to prove the rule. 

But my point was originally in reply to someone saying musonda and Abraham would be worth 200m combined one day. My view is that musonda will never make it at a top level but at a minimum he will 100% never be worth more than 20 or 30m in today's money. 

 

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2 hours ago, benjsross said:

Check again...Alonso was playing top flight football for Bolton and playing well. Moses was playing premiership for Wigan playing every game. Pedro played for Barcelona B...which is a much better standard than our development team. Musondas experience compared to these players is miles away from them at the same age.

Kante a freak. It happens. The exception to prove the rule. 

But my point was originally in reply to someone saying musonda and Abraham would be worth 200m combined one day. My view is that musonda will never make it at a top level but at a minimum he will 100% never be worth more than 20 or 30m in today's money. 

 

Alonso was PLAYING for Bolton at 22 and at that point was in the championship. Are you counting a handful of matches before for him but not Musonda? Moses did get top flight games at 21 but then again so did Musonda at a younger age in La Liga. 

 

I said they'd be worth 200m IF they pan out. Maybe they don't and become squad players or get to a Willian-esque level. They'll have still made it and be worth keeping around. 

If they do turn into stars however, given the prices players are going for today, they'll be 100m a piece. I'd bet on Tammy out of the two but Musonda did pretty well in a rehab start against Portsmouth. He was playing there due to injury, not skill. 

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8 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Alonso was PLAYING for Bolton at 22 and at that point was in the championship. Are you counting a handful of matches before for him but not Musonda? Moses did get top flight games at 21 but then again so did Musonda at a younger age in La Liga. 

 

I said they'd be worth 200m IF they pan out. Maybe they don't and become squad players or get to a Willian-esque level. They'll have still made it and be worth keeping around. 

If they do turn into stars however, given the prices players are going for today, they'll be 100m a piece. I'd bet on Tammy out of the two but Musonda did pretty well in a rehab start against Portsmouth. He was playing there due to injury, not skill. 

Musonda won't get close to Willian level or squad player level. Thats my prediction. He's not good enough and won't become good enough. 

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