22 minutes ago, enigma said:

what about azpilicueta in midfield? he is getting forward into the midfield position quite often these days that it could be worth a shot. i was then thinking going to four at the back again or do you guys think four at the back has had its day? 

I don't think 4 at the back has had it's day personally, up until Arsenal away last season we were winning comfortably with 4-1-4-1 (i.e. 3-0 at home to Burnley). For me at home we should play 4 at the back against mid to lower opposition, 3-5-2/3-4-3 away, and 3-5-2/3-4-2-1 at home against top to mid opposition, today I think we could have done with Willian bridging the space between midfield and attack for example - Hazard/Morata were too isolated.

Edited January 13, 20188 yr by the special one

2 minutes ago, the special one said:

I don't think 4 at the back has had it's day personally, up until Arsenal away last season we were comfortably beating teams with 4-1-4-1 (i.e. 3-0 at home to Burnley). For me at home we should play 4 at the back against mid to lower opposition, 3-5-2/3-4-3 away, and 3-5-2/3-4-2-1 at home against top to mid opposition, today I think could have done with Willian bridging the space between midfield and attack for example - Hazard/Morata were too isolated.

reason i was thinking azpilicueta slotting into midfield is didn't lahm do a similar thing at bayern? moved from right back to central mid? azpi is so versatile i am sure he could slot in there without much issue. him, kante and barkley for e.g would be interesting and azpi does like to get forward more than most. have zappacosta and alonso as lb/rb and then rudiger/andreas at cb. not saying it would work effectively, but surely could be something to consider. 

8 minutes ago, enigma said:

reason i was thinking azpilicueta slotting into midfield is didn't lahm do a similar thing at bayern? moved from right back to central mid? azpi is so versatile i am sure he could slot in there without much issue. him, kante and barkley for e.g would be interesting and azpi does like to get forward more than most. have zappacosta and alonso as lb/rb and then rudiger/andreas at cb. not saying it would work effectively, but surely could be something to consider. 

It's something to consider I agree but I'm not convinced it would work, maybe if we had Guardiola he could play as an inverted fullback with Willian/Hazard playing in a similar role to De Bruyne/Silva at City.

31 minutes ago, Famous CFC said:

Same formation won the league last season. Difference this year is we have no Diego or David Luiz from last season, and the players that performed last season haven't this season. At the minute you could put Chelsea in any formation you can think of and the results would be very simliar. Chelsea FC Win the league one year, f**k it up the next. Repeat. 

Chelsea played with 3 attacking players last season rather than having just 2 in Morata and Hazard. Different circumstances last year where playing a back 3 was new to the league and now every team is nearly playing it, one game a week and no injuries. I'm sure a more attacking formation would have produced different results in the last 3 games. 

Same formation won the league last season. Difference this year is we have no Diego or David Luiz from last season, and the players that performed last season haven't this season. At the minute you could put Chelsea in any formation you can think of and the results would be very simliar. Chelsea FC Win the league one year, f**k it up the next. Repeat. 

The difference is not Luiz. It's Costa and Matic. Remember how many games Costa would change on his own. 1 ball from Fabregas over the top and that was done. Morata is very much learning so I don't blame him. Bakayoko is... whatever. This is just what happens when you trade key players for a gamble on potential to make a buck.

343 is better but then Conte knows he absolutely cannot play Fabregas. So he has to choose between Bakayoko and Drinkwater, then we'll all be back here complaining about not being able to control the midfield.

26 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

The difference is not Luiz. It's Costa and Matic. Remember how many games Costa would change on his own. 1 ball from Fabregas over the top and that was done. Morata is very much learning so I don't blame him. Bakayoko is... whatever. This is just what happens when you trade key players for a gamble on potential to make a buck.

343 is better but then Conte knows he absolutely cannot play Fabregas. So he has to choose between Bakayoko and Drinkwater, then we'll all be back here complaining about not being able to control the midfield.

We certainly miss Matic and Costa. Matic In that position he was superb. Certainly a player we took for granted.  And we'll, Diego was Diego. It all boils down to the players we have and the way we are playing. Formation or no formation, at the minute certain players aren't playing up to what is required to be top of that table or been there or there abouts. 

Edited January 13, 20188 yr by Famous CFC

2 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Chelsea played with 3 attacking players last season rather than having just 2 in Morata and Hazard. Different circumstances last year where playing a back 3 was new to the league and now every team is nearly playing it, one game a week and no injuries. I'm sure a more attacking formation would have produced different results in the last 3 games. 

As I said the performance from the players obviously isn't up to standard. You take two key players in Matic and Diego out, coupled with people not performing to level requirred to be a potential champion and this is what will happen. The moment that title was won last year we shoulda strengthened. But no, it will all be alright on that night attitude. Well, at the moment it's not. Certain players need to up their game no matter what the formation is. Tottenham switch their formation and they still produce good performances even though sometimes it doesn't go their way result wise.

Edited January 13, 20188 yr by Famous CFC

2 hours ago, Famous CFC said:

We certainly miss Matic and Costa. Matic In that position he was superb. Certainly a player we took for granted.  And we'll, Diego was Diego. It all boils down to the players we have and the way we are playing. Formation or no formation, at the minute certain players aren't playing up to what is required to be top of that table or been there or there abouts. 

Costa would have stopped scoring from now till the end of season. Matic was a good player but someone who needed to be upgraded, its just Baka hasn't worked out yet.

What do you mean Spurs changed there formation? Playing a back 4?

22 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Costa would have stopped scoring from now till the end of season. Matic was a good player but someone who needed to be upgraded, its just Baka hasn't worked out yet.

What do you mean Spurs changed there formation? Playing a back 4?

Good players can play in any formation. Because performance and results are not coming its formation problems. It is what it is right now at the Bridge. Think you are disrespecting Matic a bit there. Looking back on it it's not been the best bit of business we've done letting him go. Most experts were shocked when we let him go. Matic and Costa in your squad makes you a hell of a lot better than having Bakayoko and Morata in there. 

To cut a long story short if my auntie had a pair of bollocks shed be my uncle. 

Edited January 14, 20188 yr by Famous CFC

The formation has got problems because there is not enough attacking players on the field. You can't expect Hazard to do it all by himself every game .

Others are stating problems because alot of other teams are now playing 3 at the back, teams now know how to play against it. Last season it was a shock to the league,  not rocket science really.

Conte picks the same team, same formation and the same subs. A change of formation brings different ideas and creativity. 

 

And in other news water is wet. Teams change formations mid way threw games. Apart from Hazard there isnt that much creativity or Jena se qua in the team. Change of formation can bring different ideas and creativity, yes of course it can, that's is if of course if you have the players who can expliot it. 

 

Our first team struggled, at home against Arsenal reserves and were outplayed by Leicester.

we need a plan B.

There’s some good points above.

It's not the formation that needs changing, it's the personnel.

You don't play 352 at home to Leicester. If you play 343 it's more attacking and keeps the 3 at the back. It really is that simple, more attacking players on the pitch means the chance of goals is higher. It's not like Chelsea are having 25 shots on goals and creating clear cut chances.

8 hours ago, abramovich said:

It's not the formation that needs changing, it's the personnel.

But that isn't going to happen any day soon so surely it's better to try out a different formation.

8 hours ago, abramovich said:

It's not the formation that needs changing, it's the personnel.

This is exactly what I've been saying. You can change formations left right and centre, but if you haven't got the personal to expliot it it's pointless. As I said, Hazard apart we are a tad short on creative quality. City could switch to most formations in reason and they'd execute it, us on the other hand, well, if we score a goal that would be nice. Get top 4 and hopefully whoever is in charge next year can bring in some game changing players. 

Edited January 14, 20188 yr by Famous CFC

Some of our best football over the last couple of seasons has involved fast counter attacks, and quick one touch passing in the final third. 

With just Morata and Hazard spearheading the attack, you don't get so much of either of these, the options are very limited, we have stopped opening up teams with quick one touch passing.

We need to have four players in that final third, running into the gaps, more movement, quicker thinking.

Defenders should look at our attack and be worried, but with 6 v 2 it's our attack that looks worried.

34 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

But that isn't going to happen any day soon so surely it's better to try out a different formation.

You can assemble crap in any type of combination, it's still going to stink. 

We needed to upgrade our wingbacks in the summer, instead we missed out on Sandro and brought in a RB who's so average Moses is still our first choice. We sold aging Matic and brought in a donkey who makes him look like a young Ballack in comparison. Morata-Costa swap isn't as bad, because I believe Alvaro has all the attributes to become world class and Diego made it impossible to keep him, but what was the point in persisting with Batshuayi when it was obvious he was never going to have a chance under Conte (and to be fair, he isn't good enough so the gaffer is right)? 

What's missing from the club is a clear communication with supporters. Just come out and say: we have no means to compete at the top tier of the transfer market anymore, we have to be more frugal and fiscally responsible with a view of meeting the FFP guidelines and the new stadium costs, so we want your support and understanding. Just be upfront and honest about it and I'm sure most reasonable fans would understand. 

Edited January 14, 20188 yr by abramovich

I wish we had some idea what the board actually want. A few years ago they seemed to have a vision - signing quality young players (Lukaku, De Bruyne, etc...) and buolding for the future. Now we've got rid of most of them and are just panic buying anyone who will sign a contract. What is the actual vision? 

there's a reason why conte almost left this summer... sh**** transfers! His formation worked wonders last season. For three reasons : 1. surprise effect; 2. LESS matches and 3. stronger midfield with Matic (hard to admit but Baka has failed to impress so far... might be great next season though !). remove all three and you have today's results. Most teams play like us and have found out that pressuring us will win them the game pretty much. Have a thin squad depth due to the aforementioned bad transfers and you'll start looking knackered (look at alonso !!!). Replace Matic with a half injured player who has yet to settle for PL football (baka) so that Kanté is actually our only one DM. Considering all of ths, I may see why Conte plays so defensive. But that's not an excuse to play Fab over Pedro all of a sudden this season because he asked for it... Fab was a golden sub last season and this was perfect for a player of his age. But the fact he can't defend for **** is worrying and leaves a huge gap in midfield. Pedro seemed good last season, I never understood why this season he did play as much. He's an interesting offensive addition considering all things (knows to shoot first off and does more defensive work than Fab).

With what we have now, I'll consider playing 4 at the back a bet. But one that's worth taking as this would play a surprise a effect, densify our defense and leave more room for offensive players in MD imo. But again, this might mean cause issues with our current wingers. Although Azpi is a RWB orginally and Alonso a LWB too... And we need to remember that the emirates debacle last season was also due to an ageing Ivanovic... We tend to forget this important element. Good ol Ivan was not as terrific as he used to be alas :(. But again, going back to a 4 man defense is a huge bet! but when you've failed to score for the last three games in a row and need more offensive players/opportunities/chances etc... you gotta try it out at least !

also we start paying our errors with our youth system... not using them at all (safe christensen) will cost us for the next three or four years I'm afraid. And I am not even talking about selling good players to other rival clubs... But when you see that CFC look less alluring than pool for instance for players, despite winning the league twice in the last three years, maybe there's a problem with the club. It can't all be blamed on pundits and FA's bias I am afraid (although I still believe this bias is definitely credible)!

Edited January 14, 20188 yr by Londonisblue

Also the stadium situation is probably a bigger issue than we might think of it ... this is basically putting a 3 to 5 year standby on our hopes for big signings methinks!

21 hours ago, Famous CFC said:

Same formation won the league last season. Difference this year is we have no Diego or David Luiz from last season, and the players that performed last season haven't this season. At the minute you could put Chelsea in any formation you can think of and the results would be very simliar. Chelsea FC Win the league one year, f**k it up the next. Repeat. 

Also many teams after seeing our success last season also started going three at the back.

Might it just be that with the extra money around the overall quality of the league has gone up a notch?

The next time I hear someone saying we have an easy run of games coming up in going to reach for my pistol[emoji21]

Our transition from defend to attack is at Snail's pace, too many players happy to hold up the ball, wait others to join in and defence settle. I saw it somewhere weeksago we haven't scored a single counter attack so far, and we certainly haven't scored any lately. Are we capable of scoring those goals liverpool scored last night? No f* way, sadly. We used to have Cesc pass from deep, likes of Hazard/Pedro etc running at defence at pace, somehow we stopped doing that. Now we just pass around looking for the defenders to fall over or Hazard does something special, it's not happening. When Barkley is game fit, I'd like to see him play with Kante in the midfield, we need to take a bit more risk to win games. No other top 6 teams regularly play 2 defensive midfielders.