12 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Why were you so silent on the clean sheet while Jorginho was covering a young Sarr and Rudiger that isn't at his best in a back 4 formation then? Instead you chose to boost the Rice signing and even brought up false information about how he was the best player when West Ham beat us which is clearly just flat out lying. 

Couldn't script it. You singing about how Kante is the saviour and how he came on to save Jorginho, only to watch as we concede the goal after Kante got nutmegged.

But of course no comment about how nobody protected the backline when Liverpool scored 2 fast goals at the start of the next game? Oh right, when Jorginho doesn't play and we concede that argument doesn't exist at all, not like you're having an agenda for years, not at all.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/12/04/west-ham-vs-chelsea-live-score-premier-league-latest-updates/

13 hours ago, just said:

And yet Danny the game before against Brighton, in which Jorginho did play, they had nearly twice as many shots as Liverpool and more possession!! Factor in that Brighton are obviously a team with less talented players than Liverpool, and it makes you ponder if Jorginho is the top class defensive cover / calming influence that some claim him to be.

I didn't claim him to be a top class / calming influence in general, I just said that it looked like he helped in that period when he came on against Liverpool. 

Yes, Brighton was a poor performance from the whole team, but he's just played against Spurs and they didn't have a single shot in the the first half and it was one of our most convincing performances of the season. 

18 hours ago, Argo said:

It was, but we still had to bring him on because it was only the presence of the world's best keeper that prevented us going behind again. And it's not like we've never had these games without Jorginho, we battered Real Madrid at Stamford Bridge with him in midfield to pluck one example.

And we didn't draw against Everton because of lack of speed in our attack, we drew because of a combination of poor finishing and Pickford.

You're right, Jorginho is a good bench player to bring on for the last 15 mins of games. Modern day Mikel with less composure. 

18 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I stopped using whoscored years ago, but if you honestly think that Rice is a better player than Jorginho, that's your problem not mine. Jorginho is a proven top player, Pep wanted him at Man City and every coach that had him loved him, including now Tuchel. But keep being in love with Rice, that's between the two of you.

Jorginho is a proven player because of Chelsea, before us he was massively unproven. Pep also wants Rice. Or do these anecdotes only work for players that have a name ending in inho.

The irony of talking about player love when you'd happily never interact with society again to defend Jorginho's honour on a forum.

58 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Jorginho is a proven player because of Chelsea, before us he was massively unproven. Pep also wants Rice. Or do these anecdotes only work for players that have a name ending in inho.

The irony of talking about player love when you'd happily never interact with society again to defend Jorginho's honour on a forum.

Before coming to Chelsea he was effectively one of the best DM in Serie A, competing to win the title in a team from south Italy for the first time in many years. You clearly know very little about football if you believe that he was unproven. Pep stopped all communications with Napoli due to Jorginho not completing his transfer to Man City which was a done deal, till this day the two clubs have no contact at all. That's a few world class coaches that rate Jorginho, I take their opinion over yours any day of the week and yes of course I will defend the Chelsea vice-captain on a forum, it's not that hard since you got no argument.

When in the previous seasons Jorginho had better stats than Rice or good stats in general, that didn't stop you from hating him anyway didn't it, in fact I fail to remember when did stats matter to people that hate Jorginho in general so I know that it has little to do with stats but with some personal or mental issue on your side so it will always be a bigger irony to hate on a Chelsea player on a Chelsea forum for years in comparison to defending him, after all I as a Chelsea fan have watched Jorginho 4 seasons now, your subjective bias towards our vice-captain couldn't be more irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Edited January 7, 20224 yr by Gol15

It is hard to appreciate Jorginho when you can only see him when he makes a mistake. When he makes one it usually ends up having to pick the ball from our net. That tells how important he is to us and to the system we play.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Before coming to Chelsea he was effectively one of the best DM in Serie A, competing to win the title in a team from south Italy for the first time in many years. You clearly know very little about football if you believe that he was unproven. Pep stopped all communications with Napoli due to Jorginho not completing his transfer to Man City which was a done deal, till this day the two clubs have no contact at all. That's a few world class coaches that rate Jorginho, I take their opinion over yours any day of the week and yes of course I will defend the Chelsea vice-captain on a forum, it's not that hard since you got no argument.

When in the previous seasons Jorginho had better stats than Rice or good stats in general, that didn't stop you from hating him anyway didn't it, in fact I fail to remember when did stats matter to people that hate Jorginho in general so I know that it has little to do with stats but with some personal or mental issue on your side so it will always be a bigger irony to hate on a Chelsea player on a Chelsea forum for years in comparison to defending him, after all I as a Chelsea fan have watched Jorginho 4 seasons now, your subjective bias towards our vice-captain couldn't be more irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12657928/koulibaly-man-city-napoli-transfer-price/

1 minute ago, just said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12657928/koulibaly-man-city-napoli-transfer-price/

Fabrizio Romano said on live stream the story about Man City stopping all communication with Napoli after Jorginho transfer failed and that they never established contact again since that time, but you keep reading the sun it matters not to me.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

It is hard to appreciate Jorginho when you can only see him when he makes a mistake. When he makes one it usually ends up having to pick the ball from our net. That tells how important he is to us and to the system we play.

Personally I think that shows our defenders and midfielders have to protect Jorginho more than the other way round. 

Just now, Gol15 said:

Fabrizio Romano said on live stream the story about Man City stopping all communication with Napoli after Jorginho transfer failed and that they never established contact again since that time, but you keep reading the sun it matters not to me.

Well it looks like they obviously communicated again Gol. There are other sources around the Koubilay approach by Man City not just The Sun.

But I will mark it down as another information source you choose to ignore, along with Who scored.com, when it doesn't match your opinion.

 

1 minute ago, just said:

Well it looks like they obviously communicated again Gol. There are other sources around the Koubilay approach by Man City not just The Sun.

But I will mark it down as another information source you choose to ignore, along with Who scored.com, when it doesn't match your opinion.

 

You didn't even read your very own article there where it says that Laurentiis said They won’t talk to us directly because of the Jorginho deal two years ago.”  LMAO... Fabrizio Romano casually said that story on stream and your article doesn't prove that he lied but that he said the truth, tha tabloid clearly shows that it's Napoli that is desperate to establish contact with Man City and not vice-versa you're so dumb...

PS. I stopped using whoscored years ago due to their own inconsistency on their website regarding the match stats, it has nothing to do with my opinion.

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You didn't even read your very own article there where it says that Laurentiis said They won’t talk to us directly because of the Jorginho deal two years ago.”  LMAO... Fabrizio Romano casually said that story on stream and your article doesn't prove that he lied but that he said the truth, tha tabloid clearly shows that it's Napoli that is desperate to establish contact with Man City and not vice-versa you're so dumb...

PS. I stopped using whoscored years ago due to their own inconsistency on their website regarding the match stats, it has nothing to do with my opinion.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-city-koulibaly-ruben-dias-22765221

Can I just say Gol, I'm glad we still do this. For the sake of our relationship. It's good that we both want to keep the magic alive after all this time.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Before coming to Chelsea he was effectively one of the best DM in Serie A, competing to win the title in a team from south Italy for the first time in many years. You clearly know very little about football if you believe that he was unproven. Pep stopped all communications with Napoli due to Jorginho not completing his transfer to Man City which was a done deal, till this day the two clubs have no contact at all. That's a few world class coaches that rate Jorginho, I take their opinion over yours any day of the week and yes of course I will defend the Chelsea vice-captain on a forum, it's not that hard since you got no argument.

When in the previous seasons Jorginho had better stats than Rice or good stats in general, that didn't stop you from hating him anyway didn't it, in fact I fail to remember when did stats matter to people that hate Jorginho in general so I know that it has little to do with stats but with some personal or mental issue on your side so it will always be a bigger irony to hate on a Chelsea player on a Chelsea forum for years in comparison to defending him, after all I as a Chelsea fan have watched Jorginho 4 seasons now, your subjective bias towards our vice-captain couldn't be more irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Did he win the league with Napoli though? Or do we reward mediocrity now? Can't wait to 'nearly' win the league with Jorginho leading us!! He was 26 when he came to us with two cups to his name, if that is what counts as a proven player to you I can name you hundreds of mediocre players that have been in a team that won 2 cups. The fact is he was unproven in a big league and had won 0 league titles. He became 'proven' being a part of Chelsea.

I'm not hating on him, he's an okay footballer. I don't believe i've ever said he's sh*t but happy to be proven wrong. I can just see he has an incredibly limited skill set and lots of limitations to his game and guess what? This might come as a surprise to you but the sun doesn't actually shine out of his rear end. 

16 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Did he win the league with Napoli though? Or do we reward mediocrity now? Can't wait to 'nearly' win the league with Jorginho leading us!! He was 26 when he came to us with two cups to his name, if that is what counts as a proven player to you I can name you hundreds of mediocre players that have been in a team that won 2 cups. The fact is he was unproven in a big league and had won 0 league titles. He became 'proven' being a part of Chelsea.

I'm not hating on him, he's an okay footballer. I don't believe i've ever said he's sh*t but happy to be proven wrong. I can just see he has an incredibly limited skill set and lots of limitations to his game and guess what? This might come as a surprise to you but the sun doesn't actually shine out of his rear end. 

So a player is unproven until he wins the league? Jorginho didn't win the league with Chelsea either so he's still unproven then.

By your own standards Rice is clearly unproven as well and will be till the end of his career if he stays in West Ham so your take is pretty bad but despite this new definition of what unproven means, you do want him to be a Chelsea player despite that. Drinkwater won the league so he was by all means very much a proven player but does that make him better than someone else right now? I don't have the same definition of what it means to be unproven as you, fact is Jorginho proved himself as a top player in one of the best leagues in Europe before coming here.

Yes he has limitations, he's far from a perfect player, he's a system player but in his role you won't find many that are better than him and any top manager would be happy to have him.

With all the sayings how he somehow looks good becaues his name ends in "inho" (which is totally random to me) I dare to say that by the same level of argument Rice is only seen like an epic player because he's English and as such he's only seen like that in England, I doubt that any Italian would like Rice to play for Italy instead of Jorginho, to say the very least.

44 minutes ago, just said:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/man-city-koulibaly-ruben-dias-22765221

Can I just say Gol, I'm glad we still do this. For the sake of our relationship. It's good that we both want to keep the magic alive after all this time.

What I said is true, regardless of how many attempts you want to make with some random articles, after failing hard with the first one you should have had the decency to stop.

Where does it say that what Fabrizio Romano told was false? You're reaching and it's embarrassing. I'm not even trying to convince you of anything but you can't really prove that what I did say is false.

2 hours ago, just said:

Personally I think that shows our defenders and midfielders have to protect Jorginho more than the other way round. 

Both Italy and Chelsea were breaking clean sheet records last season.

There was only one regular in both.

5 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Jorginho is a proven player because of Chelsea, before us he was massively unproven. Pep also wants Rice. Or do these anecdotes only work for players that have a name ending in inho.

This nonsense again. Given I'm constantly defending "unfashionable" players like Mendy and Mount that doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. I just find this Rice loving truly bizzare, assuming we're in a 343 for the long haul there's better suited players for our system even in the same England Euro 2020 squad (Phillips and Bellingham) or on our books already (Gallagher). 

So even if you're on the train of thought of wanting Jorginho replaced, out of every midfielder in the whole world, why Declan Rice? And for over £100m aswell, stick another £20-40m on top of that we potentially have a genuine shot of getting De Jong out of Barcelona.

Also Moyes compact/underdog system is perfect for defensive minded players, his Everton system duped City and Real Madrid into thinking Joleon Lescott and Thomas Gravesen respectively were players good enough for them. 

6 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Jorginho is a proven player because of Chelsea, before us he was massively unproven. Pep also wants Rice. Or do these anecdotes only work for players that have a name ending in inho.

The irony of talking about player love when you'd happily never interact with society again to defend Jorginho's honour on a forum.

Rice has had chances to "prove" himself though. He would probably be here now if he didn't sign a big contract with West Ham. 

Players should be held responsible for their own decision making, Rice has only got himself to blame for being stuck there and not having regular chances to prove himself at the top level.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Both Italy and Chelsea were breaking clean sheet records last season.

There was only one regular in both.

Man City had the most clean sheets in the EPL last season I believe?

6 minutes ago, just said:

Man City had the most clean sheets in the EPL last season I believe?

We beat the clean sheet record for English teams in the UCL while Italy didn't concede for over 19 hours.

There's only one regular on both teams.

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

We beat the clean sheet record for English teams in the UCL while Italy didn't concede for over 19 hours.

There's only one regular on both teams.

Mendy?

28 minutes ago, Argo said:

We beat the clean sheet record for English teams in the UCL while Italy didn't concede for over 19 hours.

There's only one regular on both teams.

In those 2 tournementa Jorginho set some defensive records if I remember correctly it was tackles.

12 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

In those 2 tournementa Jorginho set some defensive records if I remember correctly it was tackles.

 interceptions. Pretty sure

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Both Italy and Chelsea were breaking clean sheet records last season.

There was only one regular in both.

Yeah, Bonucci and Chiellini had nothing to do with Italy’s defensive strength, it was all thanks to Jorginho. We also had the record of clean sheets under Lampard when Mendy joined in. I’m not saying Jorginho isn’t important to our system, but other players contribute to the defensive strength more than Jorgi.

17 minutes ago, RMH said:

Yeah, Bonucci and Chiellini had nothing to do with Italy’s defensive strength, it was all thanks to Jorginho. We also had the record of clean sheets under Lampard when Mendy joined in. I’m not saying Jorginho isn’t important to our system, but other players contribute to the defensive strength more than Jorgi.

Ofcourse but if he's this raging liability people are making out he alone would have killed his teams chances of doing it.

It only takes one chink to destroy even the strongest armour.

On 07/01/2022 at 18:41, Gol15 said:

So a player is unproven until he wins the league? Jorginho didn't win the league with Chelsea either so he's still unproven then.

By your own standards Rice is clearly unproven as well and will be till the end of his career if he stays in West Ham so your take is pretty bad but despite this new definition of what unproven means, you do want him to be a Chelsea player despite that. Drinkwater won the league so he was by all means very much a proven player but does that make him better than someone else right now? I don't have the same definition of what it means to be unproven as you, fact is Jorginho proved himself as a top player in one of the best leagues in Europe before coming here.

Yes he has limitations, he's far from a perfect player, he's a system player but in his role you won't find many that are better than him and any top manager would be happy to have him.

With all the sayings how he somehow looks good becaues his name ends in "inho" (which is totally random to me) I dare to say that by the same level of argument Rice is only seen like an epic player because he's English and as such he's only seen like that in England, I doubt that any Italian would like Rice to play for Italy instead of Jorginho, to say the very least.

An unproven player is someone who isn't at a top club and who hasn't won anything of note. Yes, Jorginho was unproven and yes Rice is unproven at top clubs. However, Rice has at least been in the league for several years now. I thought my point was quite obvious tbh. What best league in Europe did Jorginho prove himself in? Surely you can't be referencing the Serie A here, the league that's been on its arse since about 2010. And by the same point i doubt any Englishman would rather have Jorginho than Rice in the England team.