41 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

The same player under 2 different managers played the same way but we conceded 15 goals more in the PL in the second season so it means it's not up to that one particular player.

You can put Fernandinho and Casemiro and Kante and we still concede most of those goals as long as Kepa and Christensen are playing, tell to Casemiro and Kante and Fernandinho to press high up and the result is identical as having Jorginho and Kovacic doing it.

So good luck finding your perfect player there, if there was another younger version of Busquets, Barcelona and Spain would have found him already...

Barca who have no money to spend? Spain have Rodri who is better than Busquets. Busquest is no bad player by the way and players can play that role later into there careers like Fernandino who would still be perfect for Chelsea, international football comes down to personal choice anyway, Deschamps loves Giroud for some strange reason and has taken dislikes to other players like Laporte.

 

All I know is that who ever is responsible for the problem so far, its Frank's job to fix it. If we keep letting in 2-3 goals every game Frank will be gone.

2. Last seasons's results bought him some time, but look what happened to Ancelotti.

3. The defensive system is not very good. Its just been chopped and changed too often. That was bad enough  last season but its not this one. The positional play in transition to defence is not good enough and that's because we over commit in attack. 

4. I keep coming back to the subs bench against Southampton. No midfielders but two wingers and two strikers.  Zyech, CHO, Giroud, Tammy. That has to be bad. We are never going to use 3 strikers in one game.

5. When  we played Palace Silva made a huge difference. The central midfielders filled in when the FBs went forward and Silva himself tracked the runs of Zaha etc really well.

So in my mind the problems can be spread around. We don't have the right personnel except when Silva and Mendy play, but also the system and the execution of the system are at fault. If Havertz is going to play No 10, which I love and makes for great attack then Kante and Jorginho have to sit deeper and stay in their assigned width zone. Kante wanders from side to side so no matter how good his interceptions he's often just not in the right place from the team position. If he was in the right spot Jorginho's lack of defensive pace would matter a bit less.

Some of the blame has to go on Frank. As far as personnel go they all have mistakes in them, but so has every defender I've ever seen. Ricky Carvalho I once saw do a back pass straight to the opposition Striker, even Terry's lack of pace was an issue from time to time.

 

6 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Barca who have no money to spend? Spain have Rodri who is better than Busquets. Busquest is no bad player by the way and players can play that role later into there careers like Fernandino who would still be perfect for Chelsea, international football comes down to personal choice anyway, Deschamps loves Giroud for some strange reason and has taken dislikes to other players like Laporte.

So we should get the 35 year old Fernandinho and we're fine then? Next year his contract expires we can get him for free.

23 hours ago, coco said:

Until the fans are allowed back into the grounds, all we will hear is more and more from the online fraternity of anti-Lampard w**kers. When they hear those loyal fans constantly singing his name, then they will remember they are in a minuscule minority.

20 goals in 7 games, you wouldn't get that under Sarri/FSW/Mourinho.

Keep Mendy and Silva fit, and we could be winning the league.

Good old loyal fans always overstating and over estimating their importance to the game. Lol. 

There's nothing there, football has moved on. I've said it a long time ago fans are so irrelevant and the fact they didn't even see it then and can't see it now drives home my point. 

Seasons worldwide restarted without fans, new campaigns started without fans, when big players sign fans shout hurrah, when player performs badly they shout get rid, if player performs well and natural progression to a bigger club comes, fans shout traitor. Match going fans are nothing but a major annoyance to the real actors in the games. The footballers, the management team, the money men. 

And yes lest I forget, the match going fans always want to antagonise the far away fans.... Fans in Americas, in Asia, in Africa in anywhere but Stamford Bridge, Turf Moor, Selhurst Park, Villa Park, Goodison Park..... general point being it is now a general problem. 

Last to understand what being global means and that football at this level is a product, a product better than with you so called Fans in the stadiums.

By the way do you not hear the "sounds of the fans" at the games? lol. So irrelevant you're the only ones that can be replaced with automation for the show to go on. 

A man expresses his doubt at Lampard being right for the club at this level after his stripes earned with one season at Derby (where he didn't particularly pull down trees), and after identifying a trend in the defensive side of game from Derby, last season and current season which doesn't ported well, means he is a w**ker. 

Legend or not at this club don't mean he is the right man. Me I'll keep on keeping it real and calling it as it is. Lampard can prove me wrong. You keep calling me w**nker and waiting for Football to let you back in, irrelevant annoyance and all. 

10 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Good old loyal fans always overstating and over estimating their importance to the game. Lol. 

There's nothing there, football has moved on. I've said it a long time ago fans are so irrelevant and the fact they didn't even see it then and can't see it now drives home my point. 

Seasons worldwide restarted without fans, new campaigns started without fans, when big players sign fans shout hurrah, when player performs badly they shout get rid, if player performs well and natural progression to a bigger club comes, fans shout traitor. Match going fans are nothing but a major annoyance to the real actors in the games. The footballers, the management team, the money men. 

And yes lest I forget, the match going fans always want to antagonise the far away fans.... Fans in Americas, in Asia, in Africa in anywhere but Stamford Bridge, Turf Moor, Selhurst Park, Villa Park, Goodison Park..... general point being it is now a general problem. 

Last to understand what being global means and that football at this level is a product, a product better than with you so called Fans in the stadiums.

By the way do you not hear the "sounds of the fans" at the games? lol. So irrelevant you're the only ones that can be replaced with automation for the show to go on. 

A man expresses his doubt at Lampard being right for the club at this level after his stripes earned with one season at Derby (where he didn't particularly pull down trees), and after identifying a trend in the defensive side of game from Derby, last season and current season which doesn't ported well, means he is a w**ker. 

Legend or not at this club don't mean he is the right man. Me I'll keep on keeping it real and calling it as it is. Lampard can prove me wrong. You keep calling me w**nker and waiting for Football to let you back in, irrelevant annoyance and all. 

So I`m guessing you have never been to a game in your life. Every player or coach interviewed this season has said they miss the fans massively, teams that are behind miss them when they need to get back up, teams ahead miss them celebrating with them and helping them get over the line for the win. 

21 hours ago, abramovich said:

I think people are underestimating the toughness of the league and /or overestimate Frank's expertise when they say 'if only we had a certain player filling a certain position we'd be winning the title." We've been having systemic problems in the way we set up for over a year now, our opponents exploit those issues time and again and Frank so far seems unable to properly address that. 

Bringing in players of a high caliber certainly helps but the manager has to know how to make it work on the pitch.

Thank you. You probably express my sentiments a lot better in a diplomatic way than I can. 

I'm not calling out Lampard or Anti Lampard as they label me. It's obvious the issue is systemic and if that's the issue, he's the one to be looking at. 

Kepa being utterly woeful last season is one I have no pity for due to his disrespectful antics the prior season and in my opinion... you reap what you sow, but could he have been so pathetic because the system failed to protect him? He wasn't that poor in his first season. 

The main men of our defence last season were also there the season before, they didn't seem so terrible though couldn't hold a light to our defensive men of the Terry era. 

Must be systemic then, not so? 

2 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Good old loyal fans always overstating and over estimating their importance to the game. Lol. 

There's nothing there, football has moved on. I've said it a long time ago fans are so irrelevant and the fact they didn't even see it then and can't see it now drives home my point. 

Seasons worldwide restarted without fans, new campaigns started without fans, when big players sign fans shout hurrah, when player performs badly they shout get rid, if player performs well and natural progression to a bigger club comes, fans shout traitor. Match going fans are nothing but a major annoyance to the real actors in the games. The footballers, the management team, the money men. 

And yes lest I forget, the match going fans always want to antagonise the far away fans.... Fans in Americas, in Asia, in Africa in anywhere but Stamford Bridge, Turf Moor, Selhurst Park, Villa Park, Goodison Park..... general point being it is now a general problem. 

There is an argument that can be made about the away goal advantage in Europe, today's professionals don't really care where they play and the fans don't really help their team specially now in the modern football game. So there is maybe a very important rule in football that is actually outdated, if we are to go deeper into this. 

But then again if fans don't return to the stadiums for a period of 5 years, that alone would or should diminish the importance of the football game in a big way.

3 minutes ago, dkw said:

So I`m guessing you have never been to a game in your life. Every player or coach interviewed this season has said they miss the fans massively, teams that are behind miss them when they need to get back up, teams ahead miss them celebrating with them and helping them get over the line for the win. 

Whether I've only listened to the games on radio or online is not the point. 

Fans massively overstate their importance. What do you expect the managers or players to say? They don't want fans back? 

You are using television interviews to make your argument (a part of the product, that is well rehearsed), especially when managers are using it as a crutch to explain/deflect from performance. 

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

There is an argument that can be made about the away goal advantage in Europe, today's professionals don't really care where they play and the fans don't really help their team specially now in the modern football game. So there is maybe a very important rule in football that is actually outdated, if we are to go deeper into this. 

But then again if fans don't return to the stadiums for a period of 5 years, that alone would or should diminish the importance of the football game in a big way.

Maybe you're right, but consider this. A great percentage today (I'll arbitrarily assign 90%+) of a club's fan base will never step foot inside its grounds. 

What does the maths of that linearly expantiate in literary terms? 

22 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Maybe you're right, but consider this. A great percentage today (I'll arbitrarily assign 90%+) of a club's fan base will never step foot inside its grounds. 

What does the maths of that linearly expantiate in literary terms? 

you definitely lost me there mate ? Cant even be arsed to google it 🤷‍♂️

25 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Maybe you're right, but consider this. A great percentage today (I'll arbitrarily assign 90%+) of a club's fan base will never step foot inside its grounds. 

What does the maths of that linearly expantiate in literary terms? 

...........and I also remember when football was mostly about how far Hutch could lob a throw in into the opposition’s 18 yard box ?!!

14 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Maybe you're right, but consider this. A great percentage today (I'll arbitrarily assign 90%+) of a club's fan base will never step foot inside its grounds. 

What does the maths of that linearly expantiate in literary terms? 

Every game before the 'rona the stadium had probably more than 40k people watching live, even if 50% of them are the same it's still a huge amount of people that come from anywhere just to see Chelsea. For example when I visited the Bridge for the first time I saw at least 15 Italians in the Megastore and I'm not English either. 

Even the biggest videogame tournaments are held with fans and there is this culture of performing in front of fans on LAN events and there is where the biggest money is, despite the fact that those games are mostly played online.

Even if the most money doesn't come at all from attendance, if we change the football culture away from the fans the whole game will change as well, the only thing needed is that people stop watching and stop buying shirts and the whole money scheme of the game would be impacted hugely. If people care about something they want to go and see it, we are not meant to sit in front of a TV, without the fans this game would have never reached this point where a few organizations can come to a country like South Africa or Brazil and randomly build stadiums just for one tournament and the country passes laws just because of that one tournament that would stay forever... If that is positive or not well that's another question.

I find international fans more often have misplaced loyalty. Loyal to each player that wears the shirt and has been successful in it. I found more people who couldn't fathom selling kante to be international fans. However on the flip side they care a lot less for academy players which is where this Mount abuse comes from. He's not the finished article despite being everything a stadium going fan wants to see.

There will be a lot of local chelsea fans who think lampard isn't the right manager, there are many valid reasons to this. I personally think he isn't good enough but I would add "yet" to the end of that statement. 

I suspect the reason there are more international lampard outers isn't because they don't recognize history, but because he gets no credit for playing the academy players from them and and perhaps because they aren't as fatigued by the manager merry go round as those who have supported the club for 20+ years. 

I'd rather see lampard get this whole season and I also would like to see what lampard can do with a team that doesn't have a league 2 level goalkeeper letting in shots for fun. 

 

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by bisright1

There’s no evidence that suggests international fans are the Lampard outers. I’ve seen twitter users based in England having such extreme and outlandish Views as well. IMO it’s more likely equally divided between international fans and local fans.

I also am not a fan on people looking down on international fans as if they are “lesser” not everyone has the luxury of being born in London to have the privilege of attending Chelsea games. International are also a huge part of the financial success of International mega clubs like Chelsea so to simply dismiss their contribution and affiliate them with the worse of the worst is a bit unfair.

Something that has not been mentioned so far yet needs a mention.

In a couple of matches now James has committed a needless foul in our own half  late in the match leading to the other team scoring from the resulting free-kick.

Frank needs to have a word.

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

There’s no evidence that suggests international fans are the Lampard outers. I’ve seen twitter users based in England having such extreme and outlandish Views as well. IMO it’s more likely equally divided between international fans and local fans.

I also am not a fan on people looking down on international fans as if they are “lesser” not everyone has the luxury of being born in London to have the privilege of attending Chelsea games. International are also a huge part of the financial success of International mega clubs like Chelsea so to simply dismiss their contribution and affiliate them with the worse of the worst is a bit unfair.

A lot of the noise around Lampard Out started after the Klopp incident, a number of social media "meme" accounts have taken a liking in slandering Lampard as it clearly gets the "Likes" and is a hit amongst the vast trolls who support Liverpool and co. This activity is clearly molding the view that Lampard is not up to the job at Chelsea which is clearly bogus and is lighting a fire under some Chelsea fans who are on the fence. 

27 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Every game before the 'rona the stadium had probably more than 40k people watching live, even if 50% of them are the same it's still a huge amount of people that come from anywhere just to see Chelsea. For example when I visited the Bridge for the first time I saw at least 15 Italians in the Megastore and I'm not English either. 

Even the biggest videogame tournaments are held with fans and there is this culture of performing in front of fans on LAN events and there is where the biggest money is, despite the fact that those games are mostly played online.

Even if the most money doesn't come at all from attendance, if we change the football culture away from the fans the whole game will change as well, the only thing needed is that people stop watching and stop buying shirts and the whole money scheme of the game would be impacted hugely. If people care about something they want to go and see it, we are not meant to sit in front of a TV, without the fans this game would have never reached this point where a few organizations can come to a country like South Africa or Brazil and randomly build stadiums just for one tournament and the country passes laws just because of that one tournament that would stay forever... If that is positive or not well that's another question.

I get you. When I'm at the Bridge, I see a lot of foreigners, and not meaning foreign but live in UK but actual people that have come on a football pilgrimage to experience their club first hand. 

It's a good thing and I don't have any qualms about that. Some people are lucky and were born within miles of SW6 but I also appreciate those that picked up an interest because their local football star at international level got signed to Chelsea. 

Match going fans are what I meant, not just fans. There will always be fans. You can't take that away from the game. My point is that on a global stage, far away fans are as important if not more important than match going ones, and some match going fans over estimate their importance. 

I'm confident we would have won on Saturday if we had our first choice goalkeeper and centre-back available. We know Kepa is a complete liability these days and most of our CBs are prone to regular brain farts (which is why we took steps to address both of these issues in the transfer window), so the result on Saturday was very predictable. If I was Lampard I'd be fuming about the international break. It's not his fault when he's forced to play players that have consistently let him/us down.

On the positive side, this must mean that Kepa is even less likely to play in future, and should now be our third choice goalkeeper. I'm usually pretty defensive towards players that get so much negative attention, but in his case it really is justified.

 

 

11 minutes ago, abister1 said:

My point is that on a global stage, far away fans are as important if not more important than match going ones, and some match going fans over estimate their importance. 

Not having that.

Considering I once had a conversation with a "Chelsea fan" who was very vocal that we should be moving to North London because "London is all the same" and we could afford better land there I am never going to be of the view that international fans should be viewed equally with match going fans. 

If Roman walks away and Chelsea are relegated, our international fans will drop by 95%. Our match going fans won't. 

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by bisright1

2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Not having that.

Considering I once had a conversation with a "Chelsea fan" who was very vocal that we should be moving to North London because "London is all the same" and we could afford better land there I am never going to be of the view that international fans should be viewed equally with match going fans. 

If Roman walks away and Chelsea are relegated, our international fans will drop by 95%. Our match going fans won't. 

Have what you want mate. Not a bother to me if you view international w**ker fans as less than you and your West London born match going pals. 

Not a view I share.

Loyalty is the same everywhere in the world. Success is the same everywhere in the world. Success breeds association and loyalty. 

Apart from your integral core of family and friends, you go try your hands at failure and see how many people mill around you. Even some in that group might be hard pushed to stick around. 

I personally think from a systematic perspective we look a lot more solid defensively in comparison to last season, we don't appear hugely open in the transition and we have developed as a team defending set pieces, so far majority of the goals we have conceded have been huge individual errors.

1 Goal Brighton- That goal was completely on Kepa, no way he should be letting that in

2 Goals against Liverpool- 1 gifted by Kepa and the 2nd James losing Mane at the backpost, both goals conceded after a Christensen brainfart.

3 goals against West Brom- 1st goal Alonso plays the ball back into a dangerous area and James is caught too far upfield, 2nd goal Silva slips and the third goal James is caught sleeping whilst the defense stepped up.

3 Goals against Southampton- Kai caught on the ball and defense falls asleep, don't even get me started on the 2nd goal and the 3rd goal once again team switches off after clearing the first ball.

I think so far this season the worst football we've played is probably the 2nd half against Southampton, this is understandable considering we had a large number of players away on International duty midweek and our fitness levels were at a lower level in comparison to Southampton's. The disappointing thing in this was Lampard didn't ring the changes earlier to freshen up the team, whilst watching the game I was confident he was going to bring on Giroud and ask the team to go long as we kept on getting caught playing out. Unsure why Kova was not in the squad as we badly needed him with a shift to a 4-3-3 not bring a little control in the middle of the park.

I've heard people state if we had Mendy and Silva we would've won that game and I agree but at the same time I think had we not had the International break even with the same players we wouldve won that game. Can someone tell FIFA that nobody gives a f**k about International football certainly not during the most congested footballing Calendar ever.     

8 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Not having that.

Considering I once had a conversation with a "Chelsea fan" who was very vocal that we should be moving to North London because "London is all the same" and we could afford better land there I am never going to be of the view that international fans should be viewed equally with match going fans. 

If Roman walks away and Chelsea are relegated, our international fans will drop by 95%. Our match going fans won't. 

The financial behomoth of the game Chelsea became was as a result of a foreigner injecting his money into the club. 

The product premier league grew to the level it has as a result of being packaged and export for an international audience. 

The fact that television and media, in way of image rights, viewing rights and all that have a big influence in the financial status and ability of clubs at the bottom rungs of the Premiership being able to splurge £100m+ on players and contracts tells you all you need to know about the importance of fans on a global level. 

Therein your overstated importance because if any club got a choice between having their local match going fans over the foreign ones for them to continue operating as football is today, it'll be adiós amigo to you, all day every day. 

9 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I personally think from a systematic perspective we look a lot more solid defensively in comparison to last season, we don't appear hugely open in the transition and we have developed as a team defending set pieces, so far majority of the goals we have conceded have been huge individual errors.

1 Goal Brighton- That goal was completely on Kepa, no way he should be letting that in

2 Goals against Liverpool- 1 gifted by Kepa and the 2nd James losing Mane at the backpost, both goals conceded after a Christensen brainfart.

3 goals against West Brom- 1st goal Alonso plays the ball back into a dangerous area and James is caught too far upfield, 2nd goal Silva slips and the third goal James is caught sleeping whilst the defense stepped up.

3 Goals against Southampton- Kai caught on the ball and defense falls asleep, don't even get me started on the 2nd goal and the 3rd goal once again team switches off after clearing the first ball.

I think so far this season the worst football we've played is probably the 2nd half against Southampton, this is understandable considering we had a large number of players away on International duty midweek and our fitness levels were at a lower level in comparison to Southampton's. The disappointing thing in this was Lampard didn't ring the changes earlier to freshen up the team, whilst watching the game I was confident he was going to bring on Giroud and ask the team to go long as we kept on getting caught playing out. Unsure why Kova was not in the squad as we badly needed him with a shift to a 4-3-3 not bring a little control in the middle of the park.

I've heard people state if we had Mendy and Silva we would've won that game and I agree but at the same time I think had we not had the International break even with the same players we wouldve won that game. Can someone tell FIFA that nobody gives a f**k about International football certainly not during the most congested footballing Calendar ever.     

You're right man. I even have said on these hallowed pages that I didn't even think they performed badly defensively after a game. 

I'll give credit where it is due and Frank is great in a lot of ways. Our attacking play, what he's doing with academy players, his media speak and stance. 

The problem I see which I won't hesitate to call out is that Frank will grow as a manager over the years and maybe would be a better fit for us then. The individual mistakes can be cut out if the defensive transition and positional play is worked on, and that comes from the training pitch. 

I won't blame him for individual footballers making mistakes but surely where these mistakes occur repeatedly across different personnel, one has to cast a suspicious glance at the management team surely? 

Can we give Lampard more than five PL games into his second season, when he's finally been able to buy some players after leading the club against expectations back into the Champions League, a bit of time FFS? Not blameless, not hapless either. Too many people focusing on all the negatives.  

5 minutes ago, abister1 said:

You're right man. I even have said on these hallowed pages that I didn't even think they performed badly defensively after a game. 

I'll give credit where it is due and Frank is great in a lot of ways. Our attacking play, what he's doing with academy players, his media speak and stance. 

The problem I see which I won't hesitate to call out is that Frank will grow as a manager over the years and maybe would be a better fit for us then. The individual mistakes can be cut out if the defensive transition and positional play is worked on, and that comes from the training pitch. 

I won't blame him for individual footballers making mistakes but surely where these mistakes occur repeatedly across different personnel, one has to cast a suspicious glance at the management team surely? 

I agree that the Management need to take responsibility and question the mental state of some of these players making the errors however due to the unique circumstances of this season such as there not being a pre-season and a vast number of new players coming into the first team I would be a little more tolerant. If we experienced similar errors in a settled team which had a full pre-season you would certainly come down harder on the Management and the team. However having said that come Christmas if the errors continue to occur and we are meandering mid table with no chance of top 4 than you can start questioning Lampard's plans and utilization of the investment but at the moment I think it is a little early to make judgement.

I think we also need to consider that we have either equaled or bettered our results from last season:

Birghton away- Win in comparison to a Draw Last season

Liverpool Home- Loss - Loss

Crystal Palace Home- Win - Win

West Brom - N/A

Southampton Home - Draw in comparison to a loss last season

It's not all doom and gloom.