lets talk about our defence

[driller97]

22 hours ago, Luiz4Chelsea said:

Are we seriously evaluating James' defensive abilities based on the 2 minutes against Villa last Sunday, the first 2 minutes he's played in three months?

Because in that case we have to sell Tammy straight away after Sunday, entirely useless performance. Sounds a bit fickle to me

Even before that though, RJ wasn't the best defensively. He's great attacking like TAA, but definitely not as good as Azpi when it comes to his defending ability.

[coco]

25 minutes ago, driller97 said:

Even before that though, RJ wasn't the best defensively. He's great attacking like TAA, but definitely not as good as Azpi when it comes to his defending ability.

 

Your'e comparing the knowledge of a nursery school kid with a high school kid.

[driller97]

6 minutes ago, coco said:

Your'e comparing the knowledge of a nursery school kid with a high school kid.

Yeah but I think I was a bit guilty of (and im sure others) where people were just clamoring for RJ to be our starter without any doubt, but when you look at it deeper you can see that maybe he's not that good yet where he warrants automatic starts over Azpi

[Munkunku]

10 minutes ago, coco said:

Your'e comparing the knowledge of a nursery school kid with a high school kid.

There’s not much difference there nowadays 

[coco]

1 hour ago, driller97 said:

Yeah but I think I was a bit guilty of (and im sure others) where people were just clamoring for RJ to be our starter without any doubt, but when you look at it deeper you can see that maybe he's not that good yet where he warrants automatic starts over Azpi

I think you can safely say not one player in this squad has an automatic berth in the team.

[driller97]

25 minutes ago, coco said:

I think you can safely say not one player in this squad has an automatic berth in the team.

Hazard did when he was still here :(

But yeah not so much now. Though you could argue that Kovacic should be at this point as hes been our best player this season

[driller97]

I think out of all our current CB's, Christensen definitely has the highest ceiling. He has shown at times that he can be class, but he's been so inconsistent since that Barca game a few years ago that its very frustrating. But his latest performance against City was excellent and based off that alone he is definitely worth keeping.

Zouma is definitely the most likely to leave atm, and I have no issues with that. Rudiger is essentially a better version of Zouma in almost every way.

Tomori is good as a backup option for now and maybe eventually can ease him into the first team.

We still need to sign a world class CB and i think Christensen will be good to pair with them.

RJ is good for RB with Azpi rotating and LB we need another top signing. We can sell Emerson and Alonso has actually proved in recent times hes still definitely worth keeping, but I wouldnt trust him to start in some big games, so hes perfectly fine to keep as a backup

[Gol15]

6 hours ago, driller97 said:

I think out of all our current CB's, Christensen definitely has the highest ceiling. He has shown at times that he can be class, but he's been so inconsistent since that Barca game a few years ago that its very frustrating. But his latest performance against City was excellent and based off that alone he is definitely worth keeping.

 

That's a bit crazy because before this last Man City game there wasn't really any hint that he still can grow much more, at least according to me. 

I wonder if that's due to the fact that he played against Sterling and some strange false 9 thing that Man City had or does he really have that much potential? 

6 hours ago, driller97 said:

 

Tomori is good as a backup option for now and maybe eventually can ease him into the first team.

We still need to sign a world class CB and i think Christensen will be good to pair with them.

RJ is good for RB with Azpi rotating and LB we need another top signing. 

IMO Tomori is the one that has the highest ceiling, he might be a big factor next season and we might not need a new CB at all. A new good LB for this window should be the only thing we do for the defense. Unless Kepa really blows it in these last games but I don't see it happening...

Check out Tomori he's only 22

 

[driller97]

29 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

That's a bit crazy because before this last Man City game there wasn't really any hint that he still can grow much more, at least according to me. 

I wonder if that's due to the fact that he played against Sterling and some strange false 9 thing that Man City had or does he really have that much potential? 

IMO Tomori is the one that has the highest ceiling, he might be a big factor next season and we might not need a new CB at all. A new good LB for this window should be the only thing we do for the defense. Unless Kepa really blows it in these last games but I don't see it happening...

Check out Tomori he's only 22

 

Im not sure I agree with that, Christensen is great on the ball and his vision is good. I just think if he bulked up a bit and added a bit of physicality into his game that would boost him very much so.

I do think Tomori is similar though, and he definitely has potential to be the best CB we have. For me it was always between Christensen and Tomori.

Rudiger and Zouma definitely seem more limited imo.

[Scott]

I really,really don't want to say this but if we had a commanding keeper I think our CB's would rise to the challenge.  

[bluehaze]

13 hours ago, Scott said:

I really,really don't want to say this but if we had a commanding keeper I think our CB's would rise to the challenge.  

 

[bluehaze]

Just now, bluehaze said:

 

I have to ask what does this mean and what's the reference to Bolton ?

[Scott]

8 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

 

What a difference 2 years can make 

[bluehaze]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

What a difference 2 years can make 

Sorry still none the wiser I think I'll leave it there.

[Mr. President]

More than new players, you need a good assistant capable of working well in all the defensive aspects of the game, it is notoriously Frank's main handicap and without that the problems will not disappear ...

[ducavis]

Total random but has anyone kept an eye on Willy Boly? I reckon he is probably the 3rd best defender in the league behind Van Dijk & Laporte.

 

Since he returned from Injury on the 1st February, Wolves - Haven't lost a game. - Have kept six clean sheets in seven games. - Have only conceded two goals.

Very underrated & a bit on the older side at 29 but would give us the physicality we lack in defence, & is entering the last year of his contract so wouldn’t cost a lot. 

[Jackbuchanan]

4 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Total random but has anyone kept an eye on Willy Boly? I reckon he is probably the 3rd best defender in the league behind Van Dijk & Laporte.

 

Since he returned from Injury on the 1st February, Wolves - Haven't lost a game. - Have kept six clean sheets in seven games. - Have only conceded two goals.

Very underrated & a bit on the older side at 29 but would give us the physicality we lack in defence, & is entering the last year of his contract so wouldn’t cost a lot. 

I think a lot of the Wolves players are quite underrated. At the right price could be a good buy! At 29 though it is likely that re-sale value in a few yrs won't be much, so can't see the club spending more than 20 or 25m.

[axman2526]

Could not defend build ups to corners, defended the corners even worse.

 

Appalling by everyone and not helped by Tammy's useless defensive efforts.

 

[Night-T]

Let’s talk about our defence.

‘What defence?’

It is so frustrating how few chances the opponents need to score against us.
Especially the smaller teams.

[Mr. President]

It is a Greek tragedy from day one.

In general, people discuss the individual quality of our defenders, or of the goalkeeper, when it is obvious that it is a collective problem, of coach, above all.

None of our defenses are world class, but none can say that none is also notoriously bad, they are obviously poorly worked and organized.

We don't know who the central defending pair is.
Does not exist. Never existed.
They change, like someone who changes their shirt, sometimes with every game.

We are not and have never been able to defend a set-piece.
Panic fills each of our players' faces.
And supporters.

We have the same goals conceded as Brighton.
One more than Newcastle.
One less than Burnley.
There is the level.
Is it the players' fault?
Do these teams have players of the same level?

My dear Lampard, hire an excellent coach to help you or this will never work. You don't know what to do back there.

[PhilH930]

I have never seen such a fragile defence in all my time following Chelsea.  I'd rather have David Lee and Dimitri Kharine in my backline.

[big blue]

So many problems. 

Kepa doesnt make enough big saves, he barely makes the easy saves, and he is far too weak on crosses for this league, which puts pressure and nerves into the defence on every ball into the box.

Left backs are horribly inconsistant, and can be targetted.

Centre backs are all decent but not spectacular. All error prone, lack of leadership, and a poor range of passing. 

Jorgi vs Kante. Kante is great when teams are coming onto us in that dm role, but when we dominate the ball, he doesn't think 2 or 3 passes ahead in order to break the lines and get our attacking players on the ball in dangerous areas. Jorginho is fantastic at this, but he is physically weak and lacks the mobility to cover counter attacks, which leaves us vulnerable in the transition.

The attacking players are also inconsistent, we dont take our chances regularly when they do come, and we can be far too predictable and struggle to open teams up, not helped when we start attempting to use kante as a playmaker. This inability to kill teams off puts pressure on a weak back line.

Thankfully we look like addressing the top end of the pitch with werner, ziyech, and possibly havertz. You would expect those 3 coupled with Pulisic, Mount, CHO, RLC, and Abraham, we would be able to outscore most teams next season, and if we have already scored 2 or 3 in the 1st 60 minuntes, teams will lose belief, and the defence will get an easier time of it.

If we want to challenge for titles though, we need a goalkeeper, centre back and left back minimum, although i wouldnt expect to get all of this done this summer. Havertz would still be the priority for me now, since it a rare occasion for us to be a position to sign a player of his reputation. 

Left back also looks like we could get that done this summer, Tagliafico, Telles, or Chilwell seem tbe most likely, and even though i personally wouldnt want us to spend big on chilwell, i think we would be a better side with him in it

Not sure what will happen at Centre back. Theres talk of Rice or Ake, but there are a lot of options out there that are potentially better, but all are fairly risky, unless we somehow bring in a koulibaly or skriniar. Romagnoli, Gabriel, Upamacano, Dias, Kamara etc. It seems we want a left sided centre back, but maybe we will give it another season until we can identify the perfect target.

Goalkeeper is the biggest issue for me, but one of hardest to address, as we have got ourselves another Torres situation, where we have a really expensive player on big wages, that isnt even perfoming well enough to sell for a respectible loss. We have been linked with Onana and Henderson. I just hope we bring in a goalkeeper that can dominate the area, and save the easier shots. Even in as a short term option until we can move on kepa. 

Its not all doom and gloom, we all knew this was going to be a long process, and i think we are ahead of the curb being in contention for CL places, and with Ziyech and Werner already on board for next season. 

Just might be another 12 months of heart attack football!

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by big blue

[Zeta]

GK: I think we should give Kepa another year to see how he does. He's not as bad as some make out.

LB: Alonso is a decent option to have, due to his goal threat. Emerson I have just not been impressed with at all.

RB: Azpilicueta has been on the decline lately and might be time to start gradually moving him out of the team. James I am still unsure about, he looks good going forward and his crossing is quality, but he always looks slow and uninterested going back. Kind of like a right-sided Alonso.

CB: Christensen just continues to disappoint. He's still young and I wouldn't give up completely yet, but he needs to improve dramatically and soon. Rudiger is just not good enough to be a first-choice CB. Zouma not a fan of his, but honestly I'd have him above the other until the end of the season and just see what happens. Tomori still young, but has looked dodgy on occasion.

 

Problem is, I just don't know who else there is out there at CB who would be available and who would actually improve us. There's no point spending 50m on Ake or Rice, as they are not an upgrade on our current options.

[rtwelch]

I think we have to go Reece at RB and Azpi at LB. Centre backs I don't even want to think about. Tomori surely not fit enough to come back yet? So Zouma and one of the idiots.

[ws6blue]

For me it's pretty straightforward - 

1. Lamps needs a defensive coach as set pieces defensively and overall basics are not top level

2. None of the CBs are top level, need to change at least one - someone with game craft like sonucu at foxes

3. Azpi still excellent and RJ coming so no worries RB for me

4. Emerson not top level as not that quick or clever or good defending, alonso OK in top third but not defensive third so change here needed as a priority

5. KEPA no where near top level - last 15 years we have had one of top 5 best keepers in the world.....need to sort this too as a priority. KEPA save percentage poor, kicking average, decisions average, commanding average - come on what is he really good at

We should stop bringing in world class forwards and midfield and get the defence sorted.... 10 league defeats and most previous managers would've been sacked by now - we all love lamps but come on

WHU perfect example of how not to defend, goal 1 mismatch on 1to1 marking, goal 2 both CBs ball watching and goal 3 was lamps fault as he didn't change it when hammers did their sub so Rudi exposed as we all pushed up and no nowse to push  pure left footer outside, so yarmelenko did what he does and did before against us. Not alonso fault as he was told to push up.

bliemy it's a mess