6 minutes ago, dkw said:

Your argument has all been about greed, him moving to England was for personal gain which shows hes greedy. Thats utter nonsense.

When I said changing country I meant changing the country you play for, since Rice is born in England he couldn't have changed his country in that way you speak of so you're wrong. Also it wasn't my argument to begin with.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

When I said changing country I meant changing the country you play for, since Rice is born in England he couldn't have changed his country in that way you speak of so you're wrong. Also it wasn't my argument to begin with.

Quote

Personal ambition, personal gain = greed. 

Thats what you said. Doesnt matter whos argument it was to begin with, thats a word for word quote of what you posted. So, explain how exactly a player changing country is greedy.

4 minutes ago, charierre said:

There are numerous occasions of players changing country, this is completely within the rules set by FIFA. Puskas and Di Stefano famously turned out for Spain having previously played for Hungary and Argentina. More recently Wilfred Zaha played at various levels including two friendlies for England before deciding on Ivory Coast. None of them broke any rules. Declan being English decided that he wanted to represent the country of his birth which is fair enough, he is young, young people do change their views as they mature. He broke no rules. 

At this point I'm well aware that he didn't break any rules, some days ago I wrote thinking that the rules have changed because I didn't know that he only played for the first team of Ireland in a few friendly games.

Just now, Gol15 said:

This isn't really true if we look at the facts. He didn't switch back to England as he never actually played for England in the first place prior to ditching Ireland that is. He is the second player in history to play for both nations and the first one played for Ireland not knowing that he's English, if we are to trust Wikipedia.

If he's greedy or not that's a matter of a personal opinion, he maybe isn't greedy choosing to play for England but in that case he would be greedy to have played for Ireland and not waiting for a call to play for the nation that he actually wants to play for...

Ok "Rice playing for Ireland, and switching to England ... " 🙂

He's eligible for both countries by the sound of it ... Ireland through his parental grandparents (a more tenuous link), and England because he was born here, grew up here, and I guess his mother is English, and possibly his dad too if Ireland had to go back as far as paternal grandparents for eligibility purposes.

But either way, it isn't greed, it is ambition. If he wants to win anything internationally, much better chance with England than Ireland (sorry). Same principle behind any potential move to Chelsea, unless you think he should stay at West Ham dodging relegation forever.

We don't know what happened to get him playing for Ireland in the first place. All sorts of tapping up goes on. I imagine someone in the England camp would have similarly approached him about the switch, rather than him initiating it.

Anyway, I'm still not sure he's good enough for us LOL ... we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out I guess !

7 minutes ago, dkw said:

Thats what you said. Doesnt matter whos argument it was to begin with, thats a word for word quote of what you posted. So, explain how exactly a player changing country is greedy.

It can be seen as greedy, mainly because of how we perceive a national team, what principals we have towards the national team and what it means to play for one.

Either Rice always wanted to play for England but couldn't do it and thus chose to represent Ireland or he decided to change the nation he represents as soon as he saw an opportunity to do so.

1. If he always wanted to represent England then he could be seen as greedy for not waiting for his opportunity, instead of doing that he still wanted to be an international so he just chose Ireland and said all those things to only win the Irish people that he in time disappointed. The question is then, if he always wanted to represent England why did he even consider playing for Ireland in the first place? The answer can be that he was greedy and just wanted to play international football for his own selfish reasons.

2. The other option is that he was totally fine with representing Ireland but once the opportunity to play for England came up he simply changed his mind. Then the question is why did he change his mind? The answer can be once again, that he did it out of pure greed by knowing that he has a better chance of getting glory with England than with Ireland, despite the fact that he went through many youth teams of Ireland and was counted on to be their next captain he turned his back on them. So he could have chosen to change his nation out of a pure selfish reason, which isn't how some perceive a player should act when it comes to the national team.

Now however you personally feel about the matter, it's totally possible that he did change the national team out of pure greed.

I personally think that isn't the case though, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, he simply has ties to both countries and in the end chose the one that is closer to his heart, which in fact is England. But what I think doesn't mean that I'm right, only Rice himself knows and the people closest to him.

2 hours ago, DarkMata said:

Yeah I’m sick to death of footballers all a bunch of greedy bastards

Werner - Could have stayed at Leipzig, had an opportunity to win the Champions League.  He turned it down to come to Chelsea early, why? Because he would get paid more - GREED!
CHO -  Could have taken the first contract offer he was given, but no he waited for better offers forcing the club to give him more money - GREED
Mount - Born and bred in Portsmouth should be playing for them right now, but no at a young age he was already plotting he’s future of gluttony, ideas of playing for a big club that paid BIG wages. Why? -GREED
Kepa - A world class keeper, decides to play sh*t now he’s on top wages, why?  Cause now he can live the life of luxury sitting on the bench every week doing nothing on top wages. - GREED
Rice - Don’t get me started the name Declan is an Irish name meaning GREED

I could go on.  I’ve had enough, from now on I only want players born in Stamford Bridge that get paid what their damn well given, thats LOYALTY.

Are you saying if you were offered 4x your salary (as an example) you would stay in your current job because you are loyal? Players are professionals who do this for money

Lol, Ireland, England, who cares about those things in 2020? What is worth giving a F is the guy being a bonafide scrub with no talent. 

Rice is a scrub? Man idk he doesn't play like a scrub, at least from what I've seen, 

In all reality, I don't think we get Rice and I don't think we make any more purchases this window. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Rice came to Chelsea next summer; can't really see West Ham selling in January.

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

This isn't really true if we look at the facts. He didn't switch back to England as he never actually played for England in the first place prior to ditching Ireland that is. He is the second player in history to play for both nations and the first one played for Ireland not knowing that he's English, if we are to trust Wikipedia.

If he's greedy or not that's a matter of a personal opinion, he maybe isn't greedy choosing to play for England but in that case he would be greedy to have played for Ireland and not waiting for a call to play for the nation that he actually wants to play for...

He played for ireland until England wanted him. Up until that point he probably assumed he'd never get a chance for England. 

He's english, not irish. 

I think we're going to make a last minute push for Rice and there's going to be a surprise departure on the cards such as Jorginho. 

That WBA game showed that we'd benefit from having a dedicated defensive midfielder. We're stacked for midfielders but I don't think any of them can properly fulfil that role where the player just sits there and drops into the defence when the fullbacks bomb forward. 

Latest rumour is a £40m. Maybe a player going the other way to sweeten the deal. 

1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

He played for ireland until England wanted him. Up until that point he probably assumed he'd never get a chance for England. 

He's english, not irish. 

And?

PS. He wouldn't be able to play for Ireland if he didn't have any connection to Ireland in the first place.

Edited September 28, 20205 yr by Gol15

14 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

And?

And...................he'd do a better job for us than Jorginho!

22 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

And?

PS. He wouldn't be able to play for Ireland if he didn't have any connection to Ireland in the first place.

One set of grandparents are irish. 

I've got irish in me too. If I was 16 and ireland asked me to play for their youth team, I'd love to. However if I then found out England wanted me, I'd ditch ireland. 

That's how it is for a lot of people with two nationalities. 

25 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

And?

PS. He wouldn't be able to play for Ireland if he didn't have any connection to Ireland in the first place.

You've heard of tony cascarino?

26 minutes ago, Nibs said:

And...................he'd do a better job for us than Jorginho!

And if he does the same job as Jorginho are you going to be totally against him just like you are against Jorginho, or are you going to cut him some slack and be reasonable just because he's English or because he didn't come with Sarri or because doing as good as Jorginho is actually being pretty good at his role...?

18 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

One set of grandparents are irish. 

I've got irish in me too. If I was 16 and ireland asked me to play for their youth team, I'd love to. However if I then found out England wanted me, I'd ditch ireland. 

That's how it is for a lot of people with two nationalities. 

I still don't see your point, I know what he did already... 

 

18 minutes ago, dkw said:

You've heard of tony cascarino?

No I haven't.

16 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

And if he does the same job as Jorginho are you going to be totally against him just like you are against Jorginho, or are you going to cut him some slack and be reasonable just because he's English or because he didn't come with Sarri or because doing as good as Jorginho is actually being pretty good at his role...?

I have come to the conclusion that you don't have a sense of humour!!

 

For the record, I'm not fussed about us signing Declan Rice. When I've seen him play, I think he's looked good, but nothing special. That said, there are those who do rate him highly and I could see him doing a MUCH better job of protecting the back 4 than Jorginho does. And of course he is only 21 so you would expect he will get better and better  as opposed to Jorginho who will soon be 29 and supposedly at his peak, despite not looking like he is at his peak.

 

21 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I still don't see your point, I know what he did already... 

 

No I haven't.

Google him.

7 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Ok "Rice playing for Ireland, and switching to England ... " 🙂

He's eligible for both countries by the sound of it ... Ireland through his parental grandparents (a more tenuous link), and England because he was born here, grew up here, and I guess his mother is English, and possibly his dad too if Ireland had to go back as far as paternal grandparents for eligibility purposes.

But either way, it isn't greed, it is ambition. If he wants to win anything internationally, much better chance with England than Ireland (sorry). Same principle behind any potential move to Chelsea, unless you think he should stay at West Ham dodging relegation forever.

We don't know what happened to get him playing for Ireland in the first place. All sorts of tapping up goes on. I imagine someone in the England camp would have similarly approached him about the switch, rather than him initiating it.

Anyway, I'm still not sure he's good enough for us LOL ... we'll have to wait and see how it all plays out I guess !

Good post, although i would possibly add that the choice between Ireland and England as a route to more success is probably moot anyway!

Of course it may have changed but when my lad was in the system, at U18 level the FAI went through all of the academies inviting lads to provide their relevant hereditary details if applicable. My lads best mate who had only been out of Essex when playing for Southend United ended up playing in some tournament (Toulon? Not sure for the age group) for Ireland!

I think a similar thing happened with Ryan Giggs playing for England before choosing to play for Wales.

Edited September 28, 20205 yr by WhiteWall

2 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

!

I think a similar thing happened with Ryan Giggs playign for England before choosing to play for Wales.

Giggs was actually never able to play for England. Common misconception. There were different rules to play for England schoolboys (U16) and when it came to U18 and above he could only play for sierra leone or wales

 

27 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I still don't see your point, I know what he did already... 

 

No I haven't.

11 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I have come to the conclusion that you don't have a sense of humour!!

 

For the record, I'm not fussed about us signing Declan Rice. When I've seen him play, I think he's looked good, but nothing special. That said, there are those who do rate him highly and I could see him doing a MUCH better job of protecting the back 4 than Jorginho does. And of course he is only 21 so you would expect he will get better and better  as opposed to Jorginho who will soon be 29 and supposedly at his peak, despite not looking like he is at his peak.

 

Maybe...just maybe...your "joke" is not as funny as you think 

Rice had 70%, 72% and 48% passing accuracy in the first 3 PL games, if that was Jorginho you would lose your mind here probably  I mean he should know how to protect the backline he played as a CB as much as he played in the midfield...

5 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Maybe...just maybe...your "joke" is not as funny as you think 

Rice had 70%, 72% and 48% passing accuracy in the first 3 PL games, if that was Jorginho you would lose your mind here probably  I mean he should know how to protect the backline he played as a CB as much as he played in the midfield...

Yes, so his versatility probably makes him a better squad fit for us than Jorginho.

His passing accuracy would improve at Chelsea and of course he could always do what Jorginho does and increase his % rate more by hitting those killer 5 yard sideways and backwards passes.

Anyway, not sure I can respect a forum member who has never heard of Chelsea "Legend" Tony Cascarino!!

 

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

Yes, so his versatility probably makes him a better squad fit for us than Jorginho.

His passing accuracy would improve at Chelsea and of course he could always do what Jorginho does and increase his % rate more by hitting those killer 5 yard sideways and backwards passes.

Anyway, not sure I can respect a forum member who has never heard of Chelsea "Legend" Tony Cascarino!!

 

As if you had any respect towards me in the first place