You can bring up the stats of Ndidi all you like. If the reports are correct Frank wants a vocal leader on the pitch and Ndidi doesn't give you that at least I don't think so. We have a world class midfielder in Kante and Kovacic who are quiet. Jorginho is a player Frank doesn't necessarily trust to make us go forward so this is how Rice fits in. 

Look, Rice is a young lad with bags of potential. He will probably never be a world class player but he can be a captain for Chelsea. He is also very versatile. Something Frank seems to value. 

People are playing too much FIFA with players and how they fit in the side. Rice is also known well by Chelsea. 

If we manage to get him for a decent fee, go for it. I feel it is too late this window though. We haven't sold anyone and it is a couple of days of window left. 

1 hour ago, Night-T said:

As a big Ndidi fan I fully agree to go for him rather than Declan, but we also need to take these stats a bit in perspective. 

Ndidi plays in a much better team, so it is a bit easier to get certain stats higher than for Declan. 

It probably is also a bit easier to do these things when the pressure is a bit less and your teamplayers have a bit more quality themselves.

eg. goals conceded, clean sheet,... but as said, I'd go any day for my former Genkie 🙂 

I think from an attacking perspective you are right, but for a defensive midfielder I would expect a player playing in the inferior team to have better stats as they are more likely to be on the back foot for majority of the time in the game. You would expect closer stats when it comes to clearances, tackles and aerial battles won etc. Having said that Leicester do play a counter attacking style of football which lends itself to sitting back. 

Ndidi has the superior stats having played 746 fewer minutes too. 

17 hours ago, brownindian said:

You can make the same argument about Kante esp in our title winning year under Conte.  What i am curious to know is, given that we have spent on Kova, what we know about Kante in his prime why do we think he is the solution ? What does he do or does better than these two people ?

I feel Kante is used more like a box to box midfielder than a proper DM. What if the same if tried with Declan ? I would prefer to spend that money on seasoned proven CBs.   

Neither Kante nor Kovacic have ever been lone DM's, always had a proper DM next to them.

So the plan is to bench Kante, Kovacic and Jorginho so that Rice can be the DM and Mount and Havertz in front of him in a 4-3-3?

Ridiculous how Rice gets so much hype.

12 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

So the plan is to bench Kante, Kovacic and Jorginho so that Rice can be the DM and Mount and Havertz in front of him in a 4-3-3?

Ridiculous how Rice gets so much hype.

Honestly, I don't care about that anymore. I only want to see Werner and Havertz playing on their original positions. 150 millions for young talents and you make them play out of position? This is my biggest concern at the moment. 

Just now, Droopy said:

Honestly, I don't care about that anymore. I only want to see Werner and Havertz playing on their original positions. 150 millions for young talents and you make them play out of position? This is my biggest concern at the moment. 

Well yea, sure, but it can mean that our starting lineup is basically 7 new players (Mendy, Chilwell, T.Silva, Rice, Ziyech, Havertz, Werner).

We weren't that bad last season I believe, or are we so bad right now that we really must sign Rice or nothing will work?

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Well yea, sure, but it can mean that our starting lineup is basically 7 new players (Mendy, Chilwell, T.Silva, Rice, Ziyech, Havertz, Werner).

We weren't that bad last season I believe, or are we so bad right now that we really must sign Rice or nothing will work?

Kepa, Alonso, Emerson and Christensen have shown why we needed new players in those positions though my point from last night stands about them looking worse under Frank than Sarri. We’ve lost Willian from last year and Ziyech is basically his replacement (though Frank wanted to keep both). The Havertz and Werner transfers are, on paper, upgrades on what we have already.

3 minutes ago, Pob said:

Kepa, Alonso, Emerson and Christensen have shown why we needed new players in those positions though my point from last night stands about them looking worse under Frank than Sarri. We’ve lost Willian from last year and Ziyech is basically his replacement (though Frank wanted to keep both). The Havertz and Werner transfers are, on paper, upgrades on what we have already.

True, we really needed a new LB and keeper and since Willian left we also needed a new winger. So we should be having an improved team once everyone is back from injuries and had some time to train together, do we really need Rice as well?

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

True, we really needed a new LB and keeper and since Willian left we also needed a new winger. So we should be having an improved team once everyone is back from injuries and had some time to train together, do we really need Rice as well?

I agree, are we signing for the sake of signing rather than knowing what is role will be in the team. With Havertz’s price tag and Mount being undroppable are we moving towards a very young trio in the middle of the park? I think the inexperience will catch us out. Is it really the case that the likes of Jorginho, Kovacic or Kante cannot do a similar job?

I think rice is more about some leadership and having a spine to the team of young English players for the future it’s a long term strategy I agree the initial improvement may not be vast but I’m not against his signing he brings us attributes we don’t necessarily have we have a very small and quiet midfield that get outmuscled at tikes we need a bit of power and a voice  in the mid 

I see some rumours that we are offering Rudiger and RLC as part of a possible deal for Rice now. At this point West Ham do not look desperate to sell so we would probably have to pay above the odds for him

1 hour ago, Pob said:

I agree, are we signing for the sake of signing rather than knowing what is role will be in the team. 

I`m not sure how you came to that. So far we have signed a striker we really needed, a left back we definitely really needed, an experienced leader centre back which we absolutely really needed, a keeper which we 100% needed and an attacking midfielder which we maybe didnt need but there is no way we could turn down the opportunity to sign. All of that looks like very joined up thinking to me, especially as it sets us up for several years to come with the squad we now have, these signings were need to take us back towards the teams we have lost a lot of ground on.

8 minutes ago, dkw said:

I`m not sure how you came to that. So far we have signed a striker we really needed, a left back we definitely really needed, an experienced leader centre back which we absolutely really needed, a keeper which we 100% needed and an attacking midfielder which we maybe didnt need but there is no way we could turn down the opportunity to sign. All of that looks like very joined up thinking to me, especially as it sets us up for several years to come with the squad we now have, these signings were need to take us back towards the teams we have lost a lot of ground on.

And just think: Marina signing for the sake of signing? That does not seem very realistic.

I think its clear that Lampard wants to play 4-3-3 with the Central Midfielder screening the defense but with the exception of Jorginho he doesn't have anyone who specializes in that role. Kante is a box to box midfielder and would be wasted in that role, Kovacic doesn't have the positional awareness to fulfil that role. Its not a criticism of Kovacic as he was originally an attacking midfielder and has been converted to play a more defensive role and just doesnt have that natural awareness for the role.

I reckon the plan is to bring in Rice to play that role as he will bring more defensive reliability in comparison to Jorginho and have Kai/Kante and Mount/Kova either side of him. Personally if we are unsuccessful in getting Rice I wouldn't mind Lampard experimenting with Christensen in that role, I think he has played that role for Denmark a few times.

After spending so much on Havertz I would expect him to have a free role behind the striker which suggests a 4-2-3-1 rather than a 4-3-3.

2 hours ago, dkw said:

I`m not sure how you came to that. So far we have signed a striker we really needed, a left back we definitely really needed, an experienced leader centre back which we absolutely really needed, a keeper which we 100% needed and an attacking midfielder which we maybe didnt need but there is no way we could turn down the opportunity to sign. All of that looks like very joined up thinking to me, especially as it sets us up for several years to come with the squad we now have, these signings were need to take us back towards the teams we have lost a lot of ground on.

Our other signings alone don't say much about this Rice signing though do they now? 

Nobody has managed to convincingly explain what would Rice manage to do for us that we can't do it already with the squad that we have. Now if you tell me that Lampard wants him well if we sign him I will obviously support the signing and it's done by then anyway. Other than that I struggle to see how Rice would be essential at this point in time, after all we did sign EVERY other target we had already, if Rice was that crucial you would expect us to sign him a month ago...

Edited September 30, 20205 yr by Gol15

Hey why don't we scrap getting a defensive midfielder and just play two left backs. Maybe then some bu88er might mark.

2 hours ago, dkw said:

I`m not sure how you came to that. So far we have signed a striker we really needed, a left back we definitely really needed, an experienced leader centre back which we absolutely really needed, a keeper which we 100% needed and an attacking midfielder which we maybe didnt need but there is no way we could turn down the opportunity to sign. All of that looks like very joined up thinking to me, especially as it sets us up for several years to come with the squad we now have, these signings were need to take us back towards the teams we have lost a lot of ground on.

I’m referring to Rice rather than the other signings though I am concerned that trying to fit Havertz in is resulting in muddled thinking with our midfield.

6 minutes ago, Pob said:

I’m referring to Rice rather than the other signings though I am concerned that trying to fit Havertz in is resulting in muddled thinking with our midfield.

My point is there has definitely been a plan behind thus transfer business, and that's to replace failed players In specific positions with young hungry first choice players rather than squad fillers like we have done the past few years. This is all to build the team to play a specific way, surely that proves Rice's signing also fits and is part of that plan. 

Edited September 30, 20205 yr by dkw

9 minutes ago, dkw said:

My point is there has definitely been a plan behind thus transfer business, and that's to replace failed players In specific positions with young hungry first choice players rather than squad fillers like we have done the past few years. This is all to build the team to play a specific way, surely that proves Rice's signing also fits and is part of that plan. 

If that is the case then I am concerned that, at the loss of Pulisic and Ziyech, we seem to lose forward movement and structure. Rice may be key at breaking up play but as I said before we’re looking at potentially a very young midfield.

Sone interesting opinions on Rice, what i do think he will bring is some Presence. Ive watched him closely in a few West ham games and he's competitive both in the air and in the tackle, something in my opinion we have lacked for some time.

He may not be the most creative but he's a Chelsea boy through and through and could offer us leadership in a similar way that JT did.

Im not saying he will be a world beater but it could be money well spent if he can bring that all important ingredient to back up the thrills of Ziyech, Havertz and co.

3 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Sone interesting opinions on Rice, what i do think he will bring is some Presence. Ive watched him closely in a few West ham games and he's competitive both in the air and in the tackle, something in my opinion we have lacked for some time.

He may not be the most creative but he's a Chelsea boy through and through and could offer us leadership in a similar way that JT did.

Im not saying he will be a world beater but it could be money well spent if he can bring that all important ingredient to back up the thrills of Ziyech, Havertz and co.

I think if we can move on Jorginho I'm okay with him joining even if I think Kante can play that role with his eyes closed if only we'd set aside stupid Sarriball theories about what he can and can't do.

Certainly not a bad thing to have more physicality in midfield and Rice is eveything Jorginho isn't in that regard. 

35 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Sone interesting opinions on Rice, what i do think he will bring is some Presence. Ive watched him closely in a few West ham games and he's competitive both in the air and in the tackle, something in my opinion we have lacked for some time.

He may not be the most creative but he's a Chelsea boy through and through and could offer us leadership in a similar way that JT did.

Im not saying he will be a world beater but it could be money well spent if he can bring that all important ingredient to back up the thrills of Ziyech, Havertz and co.

Ossie, I could kiss you if that type of thing was allowed these days.

Yes, yes, yes and yes. Been saying this myself for the best part of 2 years.

Some people on here say football has evolved and you don't these types of players anymore. I think they are wrong and that we are desperately in need of some "presence" and "power" in our midfield.

10 minutes ago, just said:

Ossie, I could kiss you if that type of thing was allowed these days.

Yes, yes, yes and yes. Been saying this myself for the best part of 2 years.

Some people on here say football has evolved and you don't these types of players anymore. I think they are wrong and that we are desperately in need of some "presence" and "power" in our midfield.

You cant beat a Clogger Just, they will never die in my book, for every fancy player you need someone who will roll their sleeves up and die for the cause, imo Rice fits that Bill.

If Rice came here and became World Class I wouldnt be about 10% as surprised as I am with how Henderson has been at LFC....and still am even though it already happened.  It did happen right?  He was a key player to winning a CL and PL, right?