3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I mean, you've spent about £450m there and barely improved us which is impressive in itself.

3 new players, with the most expensive being Jude, don't cost 450m at all. Had I put Rice instead of Fernandez, it would have been more expensive. I don't count Nkunku there as he's basically already our player and we do get massive improvements without even using wingers as Cucurella/Chilwell and James naturally contribute to our attack.

Furthermore, if you had watched any real analysis of Nkunku, you would know that he plays the best with a striker around him, which in our case would be Sterling so that position could actually be the best possible for Nkunku, Mount, Kovacic, any DM like Fernandez and Jude Bellingham would have a free role similar to KDB or Foden in Man City or Bruno Fernandes for Man United.

You believe that Rice can play as a solo DM with anyone in front of him and there is no evidence for that.

Edited December 6, 20223 yr by Gol15

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Enzo and Bellingham would absolutely transform us. 

Not only that, we would have Mount and Nkunku doing their best roles with the particular technical or poacher players around them.

We aren't getting Bellingham so I'd likely prefer a  Rice+Enzo pivot. 

52 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

We aren't getting Bellingham so I'd likely prefer a  Rice+Enzo pivot. 

That combination is probably the best and less expensive than Bellingham + 1.

   

       Rice Fernandez

(?)       Nkunku     Mount
             Broja

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

3 new players, with the most expensive being Jude, don't cost 450m at all. Had I put Rice instead of Fernandez, it would have been more expensive. I don't count Nkunku there as he's basically already our player and we do get massive improvements without even using wingers as Cucurella/Chilwell and James naturally contribute to our attack.

Furthermore, if you had watched any real analysis of Nkunku, you would know that he plays the best with a striker around him, which in our case would be Sterling so that position could actually be the best possible for Nkunku, Mount, Kovacic, any DM like Fernandez and Jude Bellingham would have a free role similar to KDB or Foden in Man City or Bruno Fernandes for Man United.

You believe that Rice can play as a solo DM with anyone in front of him and there is no evidence for that.

Gvardiol would be north of £100m. Bellingham will be north of £150m. Enzo will be north of £100m. Nkunku is costing us £70m in summer. This isn't fifa and we're not in 2005 anymore, those players will be at least that for their clubs to sell them. If Rice is touted at £70m as per reports due to his contract running down he'll be cheaper than Enzo. Don't count Nkunku to help your maths if you want, we're still paying for him in summer. 

You're right, Nkunku plays best with a striker around him. Someone to play off and and get in behind of. For some reason you've included our very out of form winger with little to no hold up play in him next to him. (As i've said, no striker)

Every single player you've listed operates best in the middle of the park, a number of them are going to have to take up positions out wide for this to work, which is once again square pegs in round holes.

Have you been watching this world cup at all buddy? Switch the TV on, would help. 

 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

We aren't getting Bellingham so I'd likely prefer a  Rice+Enzo pivot. 

Agreed we won't get Jude, he has apparently ruled us out already and is picking between Real, City and Pool. But what makes you think we would get Rice when he wants CL football and we won't be offering that next season?

I would not be surprised if Newcastle make top 4 and get Rice.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

But what makes you think we would get Rice when he wants CL football and we won't be offering that next season?

The same reason we got Kante despite finishing 10th. Chose us over Arsenal who finished 2nd at the time. We still have a lot of pulling power that many realise. Still a 2nd half of the season remaining so things could change (I hope). 

Enzo I feel we genuinely have a free shot at considering both City and Liverpool will be preoccupied with Bellingham. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

The same reason we got Kante despite finishing 10th. Chose us over Arsenal who finished 2nd at the time. We still have a lot of pulling power that many realise. Still a 2nd half of the season remaining so things could change (I hope). 

Enzo I feel we genuinely have a free shot at considering both City and Liverpool will be preoccupied with Bellingham. 

 

 

Not even been linked to Enzo have we?

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Not even been linked to Enzo have we?

Just mummers. If we want a Jorginho replacement, he is it. 

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

 But what makes you think we would get Rice when he wants CL football and we won't be offering that next season?

Conte, Sarri, Jose, Van Gaal, Kante, Kova, Jorginho, Pogba, Ronaldinho (three times), prime Auba, Luiz, Ibra, Suarez, Ribery, Vidal, Modric, Di Maria, Casemiro, Tevez, Yaya Toure, David Silva off the top of my head joined clubs outside UCL places. Pep also agreed to go to City with their UCL place (which they ultimately got on goal difference) far from secure and we've also got Nkunku to give up a likely UCL club despite our place being very much in jeopardy.

The idea that one season out of UCL is a deal breaker is a massive urban myth (and frankly, if Rice is that short sighted to go to say Spurs because of it then I'd want him even less than I already do), the players we likely won't be able to convince would also be the case even if we win the thing.

Edited December 6, 20223 yr by Argo

4 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Gvardiol would be north of £100m. Bellingham will be north of £150m. Enzo will be north of £100m. Nkunku is costing us £70m in summer. This isn't fifa and we're not in 2005 anymore, those players will be at least that for their clubs to sell them. If Rice is touted at £70m as per reports due to his contract running down he'll be cheaper than Enzo. Don't count Nkunku to help your maths if you want, we're still paying for him in summer. 

You're right, Nkunku plays best with a striker around him. Someone to play off and and get in behind of. For some reason you've included our very out of form winger with little to no hold up play in him next to him. (As i've said, no striker)

Every single player you've listed operates best in the middle of the park, a number of them are going to have to take up positions out wide for this to work, which is once again square pegs in round holes.

Have you been watching this world cup at all buddy? Switch the TV on, would help. 

 

Not sure what does anything have to do with me watching the World Cup, who would ever pay more than 60m for Gvardiol? Bellingham would be worth over 100m, Enzo is a 60m signing, his current value is 30m. Nkunku is basically a done deal, it's not really relevant he's coming so it's accounted for.

Sterling would be our poacher while Nkunku makes runs in that 4-2-2-2, otherwise a target man like Broja could play there and it's the same style for Nkunku as he has it in Leipzig, that would actually be accommodating him the most.

Mount naturally goes wide on the left side, Bellingham would have the freedom to roam anywhere he wants as on the right side he'll have James as support, the 4-2-2-2 is more narrow, you don't see KDB or Bruno F. going super wide either.

No matter what possble combination you can think of, Potter needs to spend so there is no way around it.

And no matter how important it is to replace Kante and Jorginho, Rice alone won't suddenly make the team concede even less goals nor score more goals either, actually not conceding wasn't our issue, our issue is not scoring goals and specially our attackers not scoring enough, so no matter who we get we still would need to figure out how to score goals, Rice or any other DM won't be the most important signing for us even if it is a priority to get a new DM. But if we get Jude Bellingham, be it for 150m, it would be worth it.

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Not sure what does anything have to do with me watching the World Cup, who would ever pay more than 60m for Gvardiol? Bellingham would be worth over 100m, Enzo is a 60m signing, his current value is 30m. Nkunku is basically a done deal, it's not really relevant he's coming so it's accounted for.

Sterling would be our poacher while Nkunku makes runs in that 4-2-2-2, otherwise a target man like Broja could play there and it's the same style for Nkunku as he has it in Leipzig, that would actually be accommodating him the most.

Mount naturally goes wide on the left side, Bellingham would have the freedom to roam anywhere he wants as on the right side he'll have James as support, the 4-2-2-2 is more narrow, you don't see KDB or Bruno F. going super wide either.

No matter what possble combination you can think of, Potter needs to spend so there is no way around it.

And no matter how important it is to replace Kante and Jorginho, Rice alone won't suddenly make the team concede even less goals nor score more goals either, actually not conceding wasn't our issue, our issue is not scoring goals and specially our attackers not scoring enough, so no matter who we get we still would need to figure out how to score goals, Rice or any other DM won't be the most important signing for us even if it is a priority to get a new DM. But if we get Jude Bellingham, be it for 150m, it would be worth it.

Enzo buyout is £103m . Certainly not worth that at present after 6 months in Europe. The time to sign him was last summer when he was available for 10 m. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Just mummers. If we want a Jorginho replacement, he is it. 

I don't know I kinda like @Gol15, he seems a good fella. Not sure why so many want him replaced...

47 minutes ago, charierre said:

Enzo buyout is £103m . Certainly not worth that at present after 6 months in Europe. The time to sign him was last summer when he was available for 10 m. 

While ofcourse it goes without saying we should have had the foresight in the summer sometimes the risk just has to be taken.

Drogba had one season of playing in a top team when we spent £24m (huge money in 2004) to bring him here and Liverpool brought in Alisson for massive money after granted an extra year in Europe but only one as a number one (his first year he was backup to Szczesny and didn't play a single Serie A game).

I've watched Benfica (and downloaded a few old River games) purely for his sake and in my opinion he's heading straight for the very top, I also don't think it's a coincidence Argentina have started finding their grove in this world cup since putting him as the 'metronome' either.

On 06/12/2022 at 05:15, Gol15 said:

That would be a completely new team though and we still wouldn't have a striker (part from Broja).

I imagine there are higher chances of Potter trying to turn Nkunku into a new Anelka cutting inside than seeing that starting lineup.

Maybe it sounds silly but I would be happy seeing some kind of a 4-2-2-2 formation with Nkunku + another striker like Sterling for example:

James Fofana Gvardiol Cucurella

         Fernandez Kovacic

Bellingham                     Mount

           Nkunku Sterling

Everyone happy there!. 

 

The biggest question is can you defend using

Enzo - Kova

CB - cb

In transition 

And can enzo cover Kova who can be erratic at times defensively. 

If the answer of either of these questions are no then either play a defensive player behind them or play 343.

 

13 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Not sure what does anything have to do with me watching the World Cup, who would ever pay more than 60m for Gvardiol? Bellingham would be worth over 100m, Enzo is a 60m signing, his current value is 30m. Nkunku is basically a done deal, it's not really relevant he's coming so it's accounted for.

Sterling would be our poacher while Nkunku makes runs in that 4-2-2-2, otherwise a target man like Broja could play there and it's the same style for Nkunku as he has it in Leipzig, that would actually be accommodating him the most.

Mount naturally goes wide on the left side, Bellingham would have the freedom to roam anywhere he wants as on the right side he'll have James as support, the 4-2-2-2 is more narrow, you don't see KDB or Bruno F. going super wide either.

No matter what possble combination you can think of, Potter needs to spend so there is no way around it.

And no matter how important it is to replace Kante and Jorginho, Rice alone won't suddenly make the team concede even less goals nor score more goals either, actually not conceding wasn't our issue, our issue is not scoring goals and specially our attackers not scoring enough, so no matter who we get we still would need to figure out how to score goals, Rice or any other DM won't be the most important signing for us even if it is a priority to get a new DM. But if we get Jude Bellingham, be it for 150m, it would be worth it.

Watching the world cup was in reference to your comment about Rice never playing with two attacking 8's, bud.

Just because you don't think Gvardiol is worth more than £60m doesn't mean that's how much he'll go for LMAO. Just like Rice hasn't been worth £150m, West Ham wouldn't sell for less than that before as that's what he's worth to them. He's worth however much the selling club wants. Bellingham will go for £130-150m, probably worth is but big money signings love proving us wrong. Enzo has a £103m buy out clause, so you want to sign a £30m player for £103m, nice! Nkunku's expenditure still falls into the accounts for summer so has to be accounted for. 

I agree it would work better with Broja next to him, that's not what you put though and the Nkunku - Sterling partnership up top would be quite funny to watch. 

We've been moaning for about 12 months now about how much less effective Mount is out wide, why would we continue forcing him out there? This is where England's golden generation failed so miserably forcing players like Scholes out wide to squeeze them into a team instead of playing players where they're best. 

I agree Bellingham would be worth the money, sets you up in the middle of the park for the next decade. Having said that, i don't think we have a chance. I'm hoping he goes to Madrid, can't stand to see him in a Liverpool shirt.

16 hours ago, charierre said:

Enzo buyout is £103m . Certainly not worth that at present after 6 months in Europe. The time to sign him was last summer when he was available for 10 m. 

I really wasn't aware of that. Either way my point is that we gotta spend. Though at this point in time if we can save 30m from the original price tag of Rice and sign him for 70m, those 30m we could spend on Alvarez for example and then we're covered after the departure of Kante and Jorginho.

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Watching the world cup was in reference to your comment about Rice never playing with two attacking 8's, bud.

 

Henderson making one run in the match when Bellingham started the counter doesn't really mean that England plays with 2 8's at all.

But like I said, if Rice can play as the solo DM it's only a positive thing, either way in a 4-3-3 there is the question about where would Nkunku play.

Edited December 7, 20223 yr by Gol15

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

The biggest question is can you defend using

Enzo - Kova

CB - cb

In transition 

And can enzo cover Kova who can be erratic at times defensively. 

If the answer of either of these questions are no then either play a defensive player behind them or play 343.

 

I actually don't know how many goals we conceded from counter-attacks, but if there are 4 players there going up against 3, they should be able to defend I think...

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Henderson making one run in the match when Bellingham started the counter doesn't really mean that England plays with 2 8's at all.

But like I said, if Rice can play as the solo DM it's only a positive thing, either way in a 4-3-3 there is the question about where would Nkunku play.

See Hendo's running stats, he was up and down that pitch every second. 

Nkunku would have to adapt to one of the front three roles imo.

Rice was brilliant off the ball against Senegal. He still did his usual thing of failing to open himself up to lead a transition. 

He needs a pivot partner. 

4 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Rice was brilliant off the ball against Senegal. He still did his usual thing of failing to open himself up to lead a transition. 

He needs a pivot partner. 

I think that no matter who we buy next, it won't be groundbreaking for us, we'll just need to keep spending so if the plan is to give Potter time, the very minimum is 2 summer windows regardless if we buy Rice or Fernandez.

Pivot partner, metronome what is it with I don't know what to call it football nerd words maybe 😆. Why has the term libero gone out of fashion it was used all the time 20 years ago. It's quite ironic that anyone under 30 that uses the terms a no 4, no 8, and no10 will probably never seen a footballer wear those numbers and don't get me started on total receptions that's just meaningless bollocks. This will mean nothing to anyone under 30 but when it comes to football speak it sums me up perfectly 🤣

 

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think that no matter who we buy next, it won't be groundbreaking for us, we'll just need to keep spending so if the plan is to give Potter time, the very minimum is 2 summer windows regardless if we buy Rice or Fernandez.

Think its encouraging reports are suggesting we are trying to revamp our midfield. 

Tuchel should of done that off the CL win. 

1 hour ago, bluehaze said:

Pivot partner, metronome what is it with I don't know what to call it football nerd words maybe 😆. Why has the term libero gone out of fashion it was used all the time 20 years ago. It's quite ironic that anyone under 30 that uses the terms a no 4, no 8, and no10 will probably never seen a footballer wear those numbers and don't get me started on total receptions that's just meaningless bollocks. This will mean nothing to anyone under 30 but when it comes to football speak it sums me up perfectly 🤣

 

Not sure why but maybe it comes back, untill then, the so called libero is still a thing in volleyball!