23 hours ago, Gol15 said:

He had arguably his best season under Sarri, so no he wasn't just playing well. With Kepa and dodgy defense Sarri made the 4-3-3 work, you can't prove otherwise, and Hazard didn't really do any kind of defending which is what I'm talking about. If back then we could play 4-3-3 we should be able to do it now easier regardless of not having Hazard, at the very least our attackers would get more space to work with.

I really don't understand why you keep wanting to go to back 4. We have cbs who are more comfortable playing in 3 and other than kante none of our midfielder can truly defend. This 343 system solves those two problem. Now our midfield only need to cover central area because the wide area is being covered by wb + cb.

 

25 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I really don't understand why you keep wanting to go to back 4. We have cbs who are more comfortable playing in 3 and other than kante none of our midfielder can truly defend. This 343 system solves those two problem. Now our midfield only need to cover central area because the wide area is being covered by wb + cb.

 

Reece getting the freedom to boss games that he has is because he’s a RWB and not a RB also. I much prefer the Tuchel back three to the Conte version although one of those has won us a league title!

4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Starting to look like a team that hasn't progressed since Lampard.

The two weeks, the quality of football isn't that much improved from before was sacked. 

We've been fortunate to win against both Watford and Leeds who themselves had significant injury problems.

That's hyperbole. Towards the end of Lampard's reign it was a complete sh*tshow. And we know for a fact this team has progressed since Lampard as we are the reigning Champions of Europe. We were never great under Lampard but despite the recent dip in form we have been a great team since February. Every team goes through periods where you just have to push through and so far we are doing pretty well at that considering we are still in the title race with the long, long list of injuries we have and are dealing with.

We'll be fine. We won't win the league yet as City & Liverpool have stronger squads (far stronger in City's case) and far less injuries but we are definitly on the right path.

 

 

1 hour ago, jack_super_class said:

Gilmour isn't as good as Jorginho obviously he's 20, thats why it was a good idea to go out on loan and play so he can get better. I dont think we need Rice now so i dont want us to try and buy him. Tchouameni going to join us to be 4th choice midfielder? He's not going to start over Jorginho, Kovacic or Kante. If we buy Tchouameni what are we doing next season with Gallagher? He is at the point where he is too good to be loaned out.

I mean either we are a bit short-staffed or not, do we have the players to compete in a few competitions or not? Tchouameni might need some time to establish himself but he looks like a signing that you either buy soon or lose out to a top team. It all depends if we can compete with the players we have this season, if we can hold on till Kante and Kovacic come back then we don't need to sign anyone. 

I mean, Tchouameni is a good talent but if we don't need him there is not much to talk about. On paper it looks like we are going to end up with a balanced squad because we're getting an exciting prospect in Gallagher and we have high hopes for Gilmour and it's very likely that we're losing Barkley and Saul so that leaves us in a very similar position but with the two prospects with high potential.

In our current system I'm not sure if Gilmour is a more sitting DM because like I said he reminds me more of Kovacic and Gallagher definitively has the skill going forward, I'm not sure if there is space for both of them in this current system with 2 central-midfielders, we could end up not knowing who is best to start, Kovacic, Gallagher or Gilmour. So for next season I agree that we wouldn't really need Tchouameni but right now it just seems like we're missing a player there. Maybe it's just that RLC has been a bit underwhelming, not sure.

 

44 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I really don't understand why you keep wanting to go to back 4. We have cbs who are more comfortable playing in 3 and other than kante none of our midfielder can truly defend. This 343 system solves those two problem. Now our midfield only need to cover central area because the wide area is being covered by wb + cb.

 

We will be getting at least one new centre-back once Rudiger/Christensen leave which means suddenly there is this option to open up a bit and sign someone that can play good in a back 4 lineup, additionally we will most likely lose T.Silva as well so maybe Chalobah would need 2 new partners.

I believe that while the current formation suits our defenders, it doesn't suit to our attackers. It's the second week in December and Mount has scored 6 PL goals, the same number as Havertz, Werner and Lukaku combined and more than any of them individually when we see all competitions. No striker with 6 goals so far, no winger either.

Not really sure how do you believe that the wide area is being covered, as if you didn't watch the last game where both goals came from the wide areas, I mean the penalty and the breakthrough weren't caused by the midfield not covering the central area... Or the one before that, against Zenit the first goal came after a cross that the backline must deal with, the second goal was a failed offside trap or something, but I guess you could say Barkley lost the ball so our defense doesn't take any responsibility? Only the last goal was a free shot from just around the box in the middle area, that's 1 goal out of 6.

4 hours ago, Argo said:

Yes but we battered Burnley and were by the far the better side vs United and wound up with 2 points out of 6. Not saying we were great in this one but on the balance of play we deserved atleast a point at West Ham.

What comes around goes around.

Agree with that, one I would add on the balance of it we should have beaten West ham as we carved put two lovely goals and theirs we handed to them through Jorgi/mendy/ac errors.

8 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Reece getting the freedom to boss games that he has is because he’s a RWB and not a RB also. I much prefer the Tuchel back three to the Conte version although one of those has won us a league title!

Yup, I thought  Reece was also  very good in back 4 under Lamp though. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Sindre said:

That's hyperbole. Towards the end of Lampard's reign it was a complete sh*tshow. And we know for a fact this team has progressed since Lampard as we are the reigning Champions of Europe. We were never great under Lampard but despite the recent dip in form we have been a great team since February. 

In Europe we've been very good under Tuchel. In the league we've been just as patchy as we were under Lampard. 

"We were never great under Lampard". We went on a 13 game unbeaten run under him last season then our form dipped over December that saw us fall away from a potential title race (sound familiar?)

3 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

In Europe we've been very good under Tuchel. In the league we've been just as patchy as we were under Lampard. 

"We were never great under Lampard". We went on a 13 game unbeaten run under him last season then our form dipped over December that saw us fall away from a potential title race (sound familiar?)

IMO we are a better tourney team than a league team.In knockout competition, defense is no 1. If you are good defensively then you have a chance. 

In the league you need to be good at both especially when you are competing with pool and city. 

11 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

In Europe we've been very good under Tuchel. In the league we've been just as patchy as we were under Lampard. 

"We were never great under Lampard". We went on a 13 game unbeaten run under him last season then our form dipped over December that saw us fall away from a potential title race (sound familiar?)

In my opinion greatness is defined by winning one of the two major titles. Many can go on a winning streak, few win the Champions League.

Objectively we aren't anywhere near as patchy in the league either. Lampards points-pr-game in 20/21 was 1.53. Tuchels was 2.00 and that was with the main focus being on the Champions League. So far this season Tuchel's PPG is 2.25 so it's not really a debate honestly.

 

11 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Reece getting the freedom to boss games that he has is because he’s a RWB and not a RB also. I much prefer the Tuchel back three to the Conte version although one of those has won us a league title!

Not sure about this, we keep leaking goals from wide areas as Gol15 pointed out. I think in recent weeks teams have sussed out that the wingbacks keep ignoring their posts and roam infield. The delivery from wide that was an effective weapon is now non existent, what we have now is WBs taking hopeful shots from outside the box that isn’t working.

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

Not sure about this, we keep leaking goals from wide areas as Gol15 pointed out. I think in recent weeks teams have sussed out that the wingbacks keep ignoring their posts and roam infield. The delivery from wide that was an effective weapon is now non existent, what we have now is WBs taking hopeful shots from outside the box that isn’t working.

I think it’s more to do with the midfield not covering as well. You can do what you like with Kante/Kova behind you. 

1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

I think it’s more to do with the midfield not covering as well. You can do what you like with Kante/Kova behind you. 

It is more on how team attack. Most team attack only through the flank, only a few team cariries a threat through the middle

13 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I believe that while the current formation suits our defenders, it doesn't suit to our attackers.

Still on this? Nothing 'suits' our attackers. Other than Lukaku, who is still adjusting to the team and vice versa, there is not a single attacker who has a good history of playing in a *top* league. So there is no way you can possibly claim that their profligacy and inept decision-making is in any way related to the system. It would be different if you have say Mane and Salah performing poorly over some time - then Klopp would justifiably consider tweaking his system. When/if more of these attackers start doing the right things consistently, I'm sure Tuchel will consider some options.

47 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

It is more on how team attack. Most team attack only through the flank, only a few team cariries a threat through the middle

They our system normally works is having the midfield help defend the flanks though, there’s three centre halves behind them to worry about the middle.

39 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

They our system normally works is having the midfield help defend the flanks though, there’s three centre halves behind them to worry about the middle.

Not at all. Our midfielder stay mostly in the middle it is up to the 2 wide cb and wb to defend the flank.

5 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

In Europe we've been very good under Tuchel. In the league we've been just as patchy as we were under Lampard. 

"We were never great under Lampard". We went on a 13 game unbeaten run under him last season then our form dipped over December that saw us fall away from a potential title race (sound familiar?)

This reminds me of when the Conte second season got inexplicably compared to 15/16.

Things maybe not perfect right now but it's still better than what was on display at the end of the Lampard reign.

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

Things maybe not perfect right now but it's still better than what was on display at the end of the Lampard reign.

I'm looking at the games we've played this season and I can pick out 6 games where I would say we played really well. 

But then you look at results like Watford, Leeds, Malmo (home and away), Brentford and to a slightly lesser extent, Aston Villa and despite winning we really laboured and struggled. 

So the convincing wins against Norwich, Southampton, Juventus, Newcastle are the anomaly performances rather than trend to date this season. 

That's not to say I'm not happy with our position in the table and being through to the knock-outs of the Champions League but there's definately a question mark over the level of performance. 

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

So the convincing wins against Norwich, Southampton, Juventus, Newcastle are the anomaly performances rather than trend to date this season.

Arsenal A (0-2), Tottenham A (0-3), Crystal Palace H (3-0), Leicester A (0-3)

Of the top of my head. And all top performances.

3 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I'm looking at the games we've played this season and I can pick out 6 games where I would say we played really well. 

But then you look at results like Watford, Leeds, Malmo (home and away), Brentford and to a slightly lesser extent, Aston Villa and despite winning we really laboured and struggled. 

So the convincing wins against Norwich, Southampton, Juventus, Newcastle are the anomaly performances rather than trend to date this season. 

That's not to say I'm not happy with our position in the table and being through to the knock-outs of the Champions League but there's definately a question mark over the level of performance. 

Yep we have had a fare share of luck with facing teams not at their best like Leeds missing Bamford and Phillips.

Agree not always playing well too.

Think under Frank it went the other way, hard to explain.

14 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I'm looking at the games we've played this season and I can pick out 6 games where I would say we played really well. 

But then you look at results like Watford, Leeds, Malmo (home and away), Brentford and to a slightly lesser extent, Aston Villa and despite winning we really laboured and struggled. 

So the convincing wins against Norwich, Southampton, Juventus, Newcastle are the anomaly performances rather than trend to date this season. 

That's not to say I'm not happy with our position in the table and being through to the knock-outs of the Champions League but there's definately a question mark over the level of performance. 

We were convincing against Leicester, Burnley despite drawing (if you want to bring up unconvicing wins surely it's fair game in reverse?) and all through August. Not quite sure where you're getting the Malmo was a struggle coming from, they did next to nothing.

59 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Arsenal A (0-2), Tottenham A (0-3), Crystal Palace H (3-0), Leicester A (0-3)

Of the top of my head. And all top performances.

First line of that post:

I'm looking at the games we've played this season and I can pick out 6 games where I would say we played really well. 

30 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

First line of that post:

I'm looking at the games we've played this season and I can pick out 6 games where I would say we played really well. 

Okay, was just confused because you mentioned 4 and those four that I mentioned are pretty indisputably good performances as well. Anfield was a top performance too in my view.

3 hours ago, venom2011 said:

Still on this? Nothing 'suits' our attackers. Other than Lukaku, who is still adjusting to the team and vice versa, there is not a single attacker who has a good history of playing in a *top* league. So there is no way you can possibly claim that their profligacy and inept decision-making is in any way related to the system. It would be different if you have say Mane and Salah performing poorly over some time - then Klopp would justifiably consider tweaking his system. When/if more of these attackers start doing the right things consistently, I'm sure Tuchel will consider some options.

All I get from this is that you don't consider Bundesliga a top league. When no attacker is working, not even after spending a huge amount of money you have to question the ability of the manager, maybe not at the very start but at some point this is inevitable. I'm asking the question about Tuchel's ability to get a striker going, it looks like it's too soon but it's really not it's mid December, at this point we're not doing terribly bad but we're not exactly amazing either. But this won't cut it for the PL title. 

 

Don't know if anyone else feels this way, but am a little disappointed at the lack of concrete links to us strengthening in January and supporting TT with the midfield and defence issues.

We cover Lukakus purchase with our sales, so we should have some spare and we could clearly use some extra quality and depth there.

You know the media would have gotten some Intel on it if we had some players lined up. Was hoping we could have 2 in for TT when the window opened.

Still time but would be nice if we made moves quickly.

Ideally Kounde and either the lad from Monaco or Gini Wijnaldum 

Edited December 13, 20214 yr by axman2526

17 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Don't know if anyone else feels this way, but am a little disappointed at the lack of concrete links to us strengthening in January and supporting TT with the midfield and defence issues.

We cover Lukakus purchase with our sales, so we should have some spare and we could clearly use some extra quality and depth there.

You know the media would have gotten some Intel on it if we had some players lined up. Was hoping we could have 2 in for TT when the window opened.

Still time but would be nice if we made moves quickly.

Ideally Kounde and either the lad from Monaco or Gini Wijnaldum 

Fans keep forgetting there are squad rules to adhere to. You sign/loan a player in Jan, and you will need to remove one from the squad list. The only player I can see that is dispensable in that respect is Saul, and we would need to cancel his loan. Can’t see where Kounde fits in the interim as Christensen according to the press is meant to be signing his contract real soon. You could sell/loan Sarr but he is the only cover for Rudiger.