7 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Fans keep forgetting there are squad rules to adhere to. You sign/loan a player in Jan, and you will need to remove one from the squad list. The only player I can see that is dispensable in that respect is Saul, and we would need to cancel his loan. Can’t see where Kounde fits in the interim as Christensen according to the press is meant to be signing his contract real soon. You could sell/loan Sarr but he is the only cover for Rudiger. 

Yeah RLC, Barkley and Sarr only got added after the window closed and we could not shift them. So Ross and Sarr would likely drop.

10 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Don't know if anyone else feels this way, but am a little disappointed at the lack of concrete links to us strengthening in January and supporting TT with the midfield and defence issues.

We cover Lukakus purchase with our sales, so we should have some spare and we could clearly use some extra quality and depth there.

You know the media would have gotten some Intel on it if we had some players lined up. Was hoping we could have 2 in for TT when the window opened.

Still time but would be nice if we made moves quickly.

Ideally Kounde and either the lad from Monaco or Gini Wijnaldum 

Nah. We don't need midfiel or cb reinforcement right away. We need cb next year once rudi and maybe chris leave. In midfield we can recall gallagher and gilmour next year.

On 13/12/2021 at 05:06, Gol15 said:

I mean either we are a bit short-staffed or not, do we have the players to compete in a few competitions or not? Tchouameni might need some time to establish himself but he looks like a signing that you either buy soon or lose out to a top team. It all depends if we can compete with the players we have this season, if we can hold on till Kante and Kovacic come back then we don't need to sign anyone. 

I mean, Tchouameni is a good talent but if we don't need him there is not much to talk about. On paper it looks like we are going to end up with a balanced squad because we're getting an exciting prospect in Gallagher and we have high hopes for Gilmour and it's very likely that we're losing Barkley and Saul so that leaves us in a very similar position but with the two prospects with high potential.

In our current system I'm not sure if Gilmour is a more sitting DM because like I said he reminds me more of Kovacic and Gallagher definitively has the skill going forward, I'm not sure if there is space for both of them in this current system with 2 central-midfielders, we could end up not knowing who is best to start, Kovacic, Gallagher or Gilmour. So for next season I agree that we wouldn't really need Tchouameni but right now it just seems like we're missing a player there. Maybe it's just that RLC has been a bit underwhelming, not sure.

 

We will be getting at least one new centre-back once Rudiger/Christensen leave which means suddenly there is this option to open up a bit and sign someone that can play good in a back 4 lineup, additionally we will most likely lose T.Silva as well so maybe Chalobah would need 2 new partners.

I believe that while the current formation suits our defenders, it doesn't suit to our attackers. It's the second week in December and Mount has scored 6 PL goals, the same number as Havertz, Werner and Lukaku combined and more than any of them individually when we see all competitions. No striker with 6 goals so far, no winger either.

Not really sure how do you believe that the wide area is being covered, as if you didn't watch the last game where both goals came from the wide areas, I mean the penalty and the breakthrough weren't caused by the midfield not covering the central area... Or the one before that, against Zenit the first goal came after a cross that the backline must deal with, the second goal was a failed offside trap or something, but I guess you could say Barkley lost the ball so our defense doesn't take any responsibility? Only the last goal was a free shot from just around the box in the middle area, that's 1 goal out of 6.

I was talking more about how our defensive setup work. The wide area are usually our cb and wb responsibility.

Btw I really want to know from people who want back 4

Jorgi

CB - CB - CB

This is how we currently defend against transition. 

Now what is your plan against transition after we switch to back 4 ?

 

19 hours ago, Gol15 said:

All I get from this is that you don't consider Bundesliga a top league. When no attacker is working, not even after spending a huge amount of money you have to question the ability of the manager,

Tuchel had no involvement in buying Werner, Havertz and Ziyech though. None of which have met their lofty expectations.
Lukaku he obviously was involved with but he's still working towards full fitness after getting injured two months ago. So he may very well come good when he finds his form.

In general I wouldn't question the ability of the manager who smashed Europe's best to win the Champions League on merit. And the SuperCup so that's two european trophies out of two possible so far.

He's done an incredible job and it's surprising to me he doesn't seem to have more "goodwill" with quite a few. I mean, we are seeing comparisons to how we were under Lampard after having to grind out a few wins in the midst of a injury crisis. That's surprising to me.

 

Edited December 14, 20214 yr by Sindre

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

I was talking more about how our defensive setup work. The wide area are usually our cb and wb responsibility.

Btw I really want to know from people who want back 4

Jorgi

CB - CB - CB

This is how we currently defend against transition. 

Now what is your plan against transition after we switch to back 4 ?

 

As if we never ever had the option to see how Chelsea plays in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, before Lampard started playing Kante in the position of Jorginho...

I think the board were a bit naive last summer, whilst Trevor had us questioning the need for Kounde I still think they should have gone all out to get him in.

Considering the amount of players we have that can double up in midfield our back 3 is mighty fragile. Were we to lose two or more defenders to injury like our midfield currently our system would be in tatters.

I personally believe we should go in the winter market and sign a cb. It doesn't have to be Jules but ideally someone who will be of the level of this current team, Sarr just needs to go on loan I've seen enough from him.

Saul with respect is a wasted spot in this squad would love that deal to be cancelled and we look at a better option, what we need is a dm or a press resistant cm.

Whether that's a loan or not will depend on Conor and Billy's long term future. Tbh if anything we could leave Conor at Palace since he's flourishing and bring back Billy in Jan. Problem hopefully solved, since he could play alongside any of our mid 3 and were he to be next to Jorgehh, Billy would have more license to come forward.

17 hours ago, ducavis said:

Fans keep forgetting there are squad rules to adhere to. You sign/loan a player in Jan, and you will need to remove one from the squad list. The only player I can see that is dispensable in that respect is Saul, and we would need to cancel his loan. Can’t see where Kounde fits in the interim as Christensen according to the press is meant to be signing his contract real soon. You could sell/loan Sarr but he is the only cover for Rudiger. 

I'm fairly certain we can squeeze in 1-3 players in. Lewis Baker, Barkley, Saul or Sarr can easily make way for it. The more extreme choices would be forgoing our 3rd choice keeper or selling some of our players

1 hour ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I think the board were a bit naive last summer, whilst Trevor had us questioning the need for Kounde I still think they should have gone all out to get him in.

Considering the amount of players we have that can double up in midfield our back 3 is mighty fragile. Were we to lose two or more defenders to injury like our midfield currently our system would be in tatters.

I personally believe we should go in the winter market and sign a cb. It doesn't have to be Jules but ideally someone who will be of the level of this current team, Sarr just needs to go on loan I've seen enough from him.

Saul with respect is a wasted spot in this squad would love that deal to be cancelled and we look at a better option, what we need is a dm or a press resistant cm.

Whether that's a loan or not will depend on Conor and Billy's long term future. Tbh if anything we could leave Conor at Palace since he's flourishing and bring back Billy in Jan. Problem hopefully solved, since he could play alongside any of our mid 3 and were he to be next to Jorgehh, Billy would have more license to come forward.

I don’t see how the CB position is an issue presently, and can’t see where Kounde plays without destabilising the team. We are stacked at RCB with Azpi/Christensen/Chalobah, and in the middle with Silva/Christensen. If we are looking at signing a defender, it should be to correct the mistake of not signing a competition and long term replacement for Rudiger at LCB. Either that or should Chiwell be out longer than expected, then an interim solution at LWB. 

4 hours ago, Sindre said:

Tuchel had no involvement in buying Werner, Havertz and Ziyech though. None of which have met their lofty expectations.
Lukaku he obviously was involved with but he's still working towards full fitness after getting injured two months ago. So he may very well come good when he finds his form.

In general I wouldn't question the ability of the manager who smashed Europe's best to win the Champions League on merit. And the SuperCup so that's two european trophies out of two possible so far.

He's done an incredible job and it's surprising to me he doesn't seem to have more "goodwill" with quite a few. I mean, we are seeing comparisons to how we were under Lampard after having to grind out a few wins in the midst of a injury crisis. That's surprising to me.

 

I think that I'm not questioning his ability in general, just his ability to get a striker going. I praised him for focusing on our defense and making it stable, but now it would be a good time for him to find a way to get our attack firing.

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think that I'm not questioning his ability in general, just his ability to get a striker going. I praised him for focusing on our defense and making it stable, but now it would be a good time for him to find a way to get our attack firing.

Very strange. The problem atm is that the defense is not stable anymore and the opponents are scoring 2 or 3 goals in each game.

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think that I'm not questioning his ability in general, just his ability to get a striker going. I praised him for focusing on our defense and making it stable, but now it would be a good time for him to find a way to get our attack firing.

Aubameyang turned into the goalscoring machine that he is now under TT, also Mbappe, Neymar, di Maria had no trouble to get going under him.

17 hours ago, Gol15 said:

As if we never ever had the option to see how Chelsea plays in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, before Lampard started playing Kante in the position of Jorginho...

So what is your plan to defend against transition ?

We clearly have a system and the right players to implement it under the right guidance. Let's trust it, hope to cling on the title battle during this difficult period. 

Injuries and fatigue are hitting us hard. Time will heal. We also need a bit of luck.

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

So what is your plan to defend against transition ?

How does Man City or Liverpool do it? No one is saying to change the system permanently but at least try it for a few matches see how attackers perform and also it will give opposition something else to think about. On paper we have incredible attackers and none of them are reaching their true Potential, something needs to be done don't you think. 

3 hours ago, True Blue23 said:

Aubameyang turned into the goalscoring machine that he is now under TT, also Mbappe, Neymar, di Maria had no trouble to get going under him.

Can he actually take credit for any of them though? Aubameyang did hit his natural peak under him but it was an evolution over time. The PSG side in 2017-2018 under Unai Emery were more devastating, and common they have one of the best squads on the planet. 
Ignore the table,  but I think it’s a bit scary that a year into his regime all our forwards combined have less goal contributions than Salah alone has this season. And I won’t be surprised if come the end of the season Jorginho and his pens ends up being our highest goal scorer again.

Edited December 15, 20214 yr by ducavis

1 hour ago, Gentian said:

How does Man City or Liverpool do it? No one is saying to change the system permanently but at least try it for a few matches see how attackers perform and also it will give opposition something else to think about. On paper we have incredible attackers and none of them are reaching their true Potential, something needs to be done don't you think. 

Tuchel can add an offensive/shooting coach. You don't have to change a manager just to improve certain player's performances. 

It's what made Alex Ferguson the best manager after all. 

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

Can he actually take credit for any of them though? Aubameyang did hit his natural peak under him but it was an evolution over time. The PSG side in 2017-2018 under Unai Emery were more devastating, and common they have one of the best squads on the planet. 
Ignore the table,  but I think it’s a bit scary that a year into his regime all our forwards combined have less goal contributions than Salah alone has this season. And I won’t be surprised if come the end of the season Jorginho and his pens ends up being our highest goal scorer again.

With Aubameyang it's pretty clear that TT got the best out of him imo. Before he was mostly played as a winger, Tuchel recognized his potential as a striker and played him there and he started scoring like crazy.

With the PSG forwards... Obviously they were great players already nothing for Tuchel to take credit for. It just shows that if you're a great attacker you're going to perform under Tuchel. Also under Emery PSG scored 108 goals under TT the season after they scored 105 and were on their way to core that many again the season after (they had 2,77 goals per game on average after 27 games), but the season got cancelled.

I think the problem lies more with our forwards. Apart from Mount none of them performed consistently for us before Tuchel and Mount is the only one who is reliable under Tuchel.

If we didn't create chances (which we have till the last few weeks), I would start to question Tuchel's attack coaching. Here we keep missing so many chances which shows the players themselves have to step up. Werner was never prolific so I don't see much change but he brings a lot of other good facets to the game. Havertz and Ziyech need to step up. I am ambivalent on Lukaku as I never wanted him but hopefully he proves me wrong.

The difference between us and City is in midfield as none of ours are a consistent goal threat. Someone in the Lampard mold would be awesome but I don't know who that is.

7 hours ago, Gentian said:

How does Man City or Liverpool do it? No one is saying to change the system permanently but at least try it for a few matches see how attackers perform and also it will give opposition something else to think about. On paper we have incredible attackers and none of them are reaching their true Potential, something needs to be done don't you think. 

It really does not matter how city or pool does it. You need to adapt your system based on your player.

8 hours ago, Bob stark said:

So what is your plan to defend against transition ?

Just about how every big team that plays with a back 4 does.

9 hours ago, True Blue23 said:

Aubameyang turned into the goalscoring machine that he is now under TT, also Mbappe, Neymar, di Maria had no trouble to get going under him.

I agree about Aubameyang, I give you that, he made him into a dangerous striker.

But didn't he openly say that if Mbappe can't play that they have absolutely no chance against a much weaker team Atalanta in the CL? Despite having Icardi, Cavani, Neymar? He reached the final that year of the CL when there was only 1 single elimination match from the quarter finals and against Bayern his amazing attackers didn't create a single chance from what I remember.

Also did he ever play with a back 3 in Dortmund and PSG?

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I agree about Aubameyang, I give you that, he made him into a dangerous striker.

But didn't he openly say that if Mbappe can't play that they have absolutely no chance against a much weaker team Atalanta in the CL? Despite having Icardi, Cavani, Neymar? He reached the final that year of the CL when there was only 1 single elimination match from the quarter finals and against Bayern his amazing attackers didn't create a single chance from what I remember.

Also did he ever play with a back 3 in Dortmund and PSG?

He also was great for Mkhitaryan and Dembele at Dortmund. They played their best seasons under him and got high profile transfers off of their performances. 

I don't remember him playing a back 3 at Dortmund and PSG. But why should a system with a back 3 be bad for attackers? Hazard, Pedro and Costa were great for us under Conte and Lukaku's best performances came while playing in a system with a back 3. And there are many more examples of attackers flourishing in a 3-4-3/3-5-2.

If I were an attacker I would like playing in a system with three CB's as you don't have to track opposition fullbacks as much and get to play closer to goal with the wingbacks providing a lot of the width. And playing closer to goal usually leads to more chances to score and assist. Of course which system suits you more depends on the type of player you are, but theoretically Mount, Havertz, Ziyech and Werner should all enjoy the system.

8 minutes ago, True Blue23 said:

He also was great for Mkhitaryan and Dembele at Dortmund. They played their best seasons under him and got high profile transfers off of their performances. 

I don't remember him playing a back 3 at Dortmund and PSG. But why should a system with a back 3 be bad for attackers? Hazard, Pedro and Costa were great for us under Conte and Lukaku's best performances came while playing in a system with a back 3. And there are many more examples of attackers flourishing in a 3-4-3/3-5-2.

If I were an attacker I would like playing in a system with three CB's as you don't have to track opposition fullbacks as much and get to play closer to goal with the wingbacks providing a lot of the width. And playing closer to goal usually leads to more chances to score and assist. Of course which system suits you more depends on the type of player you are, but theoretically Mount, Havertz, Ziyech and Werner should all enjoy the system.

I just find it odd that he's depending so much on Chilwell and James. As soon as one of them isn't there our performances drop and also he depends too much on Rudiger going forward. I thought he was the manager to make Havertz a beast of a player, maybe even improve Werner. But as it stands our attack looks very timid in comparison to our rivals.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I just find it odd that he's depending so much on Chilwell and James. As soon as one of them isn't there our performances drop and also he depends too much on Rudiger going forward. I thought he was the manager to make Havertz a beast of a player, maybe even improve Werner. But as it stands our attack looks very timid in comparison to our rivals.

I agree that our attack needs improving, but I find it a bit simple to think it's going to be better if we just switch to a back 4. 

11 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Just about how every big team that plays with a back 4 does.

There are many2 way to do it,how do you want us to do it ?