5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

They all have the same issues though. Chiesa runs a lot and is a nuisance, but not much of a goal threat. Neto hasn't played all season and he only turns up a handful of times a season. Raphinha's decision making is all over the place, he can be as frustrating as any of our forwards.

On paper Karim Adeyemi is the dream, but so was Leipzig's Werner.

I'm still not giving up hope on one of our attackers having a breakthrough goal wise (hopefully Mount's recent run is the start of him having one, I know he had a poor miss tonight but four games in a row isn't to be sniffed at). I think it's easily forgotten that a lot of our attackers are actually still quite young and a lot of the City/Pool attackers that are compared (at this point rightly) favourably were equally erratic at the same age. For example, if you flagged Grealish as a £100m player at Mount's age I'd have called the police. 

1 hour ago, Deino said:

20+ shots and only 1 goal?

Tuchel should slap the forwards today and ask them what is going on

It doesn't matter who he puts to play up front, he wants the full-backs to win the game. No plan B and currently can't get the result while the opposition doesn't need more than 1-2 shots on target in order to score, sounds familiar...

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

For example, if you flagged Grealish as a £100m player at Mount's age I'd have called the police. 

If you flagged him now as a £100m player I’d call NHS Direct and have you sectioned. 

A lot is made of our squad depth and don't get me wrong it's certainly strong enough to maintain a top four place (the sudden urge to compare Arsenal favourably against us is beyond laughable) but to maintain a challenge we will need our best Xl available most weeks (in my opinion said best Xl is the line up that played vs Juve bar Mount and Kai in for Ziyech and Pulisic, possibly Kova replacing one of the two midfielders opponent depending).

Sadly I can't see such flawless fitness happening.

Said tonight was a ‘freak result’ which if it hadn’t been for the last few games you could have agreed with. When he came in he was very honest about everything and felt like a breathe of fresh air. Now he’s obviously protecting his players by not pointing out the obvious fact they’ve been playing like sh*te for a while now. 

We created today very good opportunities in the first half. Not scoring them was criminal. Then, as usual lately, when we finally score, we lose control and let the other team back into the game. That’s not Tuchel’s fault. But he’s making bad substitution choices. He’s short on players, I get it, but Saul is a liability and he should know it by now.

We may have squad depth but it's filled with bang average players.

Some of them wouldn't get anywhere near the matchday 18 for Liverpool or City.

As far as our squad is concerned we have quantity but not quality.

The only thing he did wrong was bring on Saul, but even that wasn't really his fault as we have another game in 3 days and he has to manage their fitness.

He was more likely to get away with using Saul here than in the next game but we got punished for it anyway. Can't fault him tbh.

2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Said tonight was a ‘freak result’ which if it hadn’t been for the last few games you could have agreed with. When he came in he was very honest about everything and felt like a breathe of fresh air. Now he’s obviously protecting his players by not pointing out the obvious fact they’ve been playing like sh*te for a while now. 

Then he is losing the plot as the players failed him badly, and a lot more attention will come his way if the Wolves and Villa games go ahead as we are heading for a poor return from them at this rate.

9 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Then he is losing the plot as the players failed him badly, and a lot more attention will come his way if the Wolves and Villa games go ahead as we are heading for a poor return from them at this rate.

Wolves is a must win, if we lose there then the title race is officially over.

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Wolves is a must win, if we lose there then the title race is officially over.

Gol mate if the games go ahead, especially with our injuries and covid cases, best we are getting is 2 points, likely 1 imo.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Wolves is a must win, if we lose there then the title race is officially over.

I don't think we ever really had a chance of winning it this year, there was a massive gap between Liverpool/City and the rest of the league prior to this season and we've somewhat been able to close it, which is progress. Other than Lukaku (who's been injured) our squad isn't any stronger than last years, if anything switching Gilmour for Saul has arguably made it weaker

47 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

I don't think we ever really had a chance of winning it this year, there was a massive gap between Liverpool/City and the rest of the league prior to this season and we've somewhat been able to close it, which is progress. Other than Lukaku (who's been injured) our squad isn't any stronger than last years, if anything switching Gilmour for Saul has arguably made it weaker

That's cause in the last 5 matches Man City and Liverpool have 5 wins, but prior to that it looked like we can compete with them.

5 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

That's cause in the last 5 matches Man City and Liverpool have 5 wins, but prior to that it looked like we can compete with them.

And those machines will keep on winning while we keep on slippin. 

Imo TT will be sacked no latter than before next season starts.

Strap in for one rough Christmas period. I have no idea how we are going to get anything out of Wolves on Sunday the way our squad is looking right now.

Adama and Jiminez will murder us in transition and it's likely that Villa will do excactly the same in about a week.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

And those machines will keep on winning while we keep on slippin. 

Imo TT will be sacked no latter than before next season starts.

Deary me

I don't agree that our squad is not as good as City and Liverpool. Yesterday, we couldn't win against a side that was playing their third team because we are set up to be more defensively organised which is not happening either atm. 

Attacking set play failing is all responsibility of the coach am afraid. There is no excuse as we have some of the best attacking talents in the world. You can get Salah in this team and he would look like Werner.

I don't know how a world class coach cant see that.

Hmm, for the first time since Frank still had the reigns I've started to have significant doubts about our current situation. Going back a few weeks, Chelsea were being lauded and Tuchel, rightly so, being placed on the higher echelons of football management. We are now at a crossroads; We were teetering near it over the past fortnight with some sloppy results, last night has delivered. Tuchel has some big decisions to make. The defensive solidarity of playing with the 3-at-the-back system has weakened, if anything, exposed... What was a legitimate answer to shouts of 'we don't score enough!', gone! Significant injuries DO play a huge part in this recent run, this can't be ignored, however, Tuchel must now take on board these considerations and adjust! We can't score for love the money with over a quarter of a billion pounds worth of assets currently occupying those positions; for me, embarrassing; there has been either a.) significant failings in recruitment, b.) significant lack of desire from the players or c.) some shoddy coaching. It's probably all 3. Combine this lack of threat with a defence that has now began to shake, it's a recipe for disaster! We can not be relying on Mason Mount to be our top scorer.

 

We do need a change of formation, we do; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. However, if we turn to a back 4, Rudiger becomes the biggest defensive liability in England, Christensen turns in to a nervous wreck at having an ounce of responsibility, Thiago Silva's lack of pace WILL get exposed and Chalobah is far too young to command that position for this side, currently. Tuchel has a nightmare scenario, NIGHTMARE.

 

This can only be fixed with buying in the summer. IMO (you'll can me for this), let Rudiger go, free up the salary; he's not all that. Bring in a solid CB in the summer that CAN hold down a back 4. Ride the wave with a back 3 currently AND for the rest of the season. Play for top 3 and a push in Europe. We WILL get back to a relative stability when key midfield players return and HOPEFULLY, a fit Chilwell. This system (as nicely said by a United fan) works when you have class players playing it; Kante and Kovacic coming back in completely changes the team. Add Chillwell to the left and all of a sudden, we're a different animal. Perhaps, bring an offensive coach in? Don't expect miracles though; we genuinely may have duff players who are exposed embarrassingly at this level; who knows? Either way, lets back TT, let's give him time. It's not doom and glooming. We're competing with teams that have had 5/6 years worth of establishment and arguably the greatest manager of THIS generation. We can't ever be compared to City, that would be like comparing Liverpool to an 04/05 Chelsea, they're poles apart! We can get there, but it isn't going to happen by going back to square one, sacking Tuchel and hiring the next fancy manager for a 'new manager bounce' to carry us to a trophy.

 

Patience. Project. Along with that, f**king annoyingly sh*t performances like last night.

 

TL;DR - We're sh*t, not that sh*t, in order to stop being sh*t it isn't going to happen overnight.

 

Edited December 17, 20214 yr by thebluekid

26 minutes ago, Gentian said:

ou can get Salah in this team and he would look like Werner.

Don't be ridiculous.

Last nights performance was frustrating but I don't believe its the end of the world, season, or title race. The next few games are really going to test both Tuchel and the team, and somehow I have a feeling we will eventually pick up form. We honestly didn't play bad yesterday, it was the poor finishing of our attackers that let us down. I feel like if Lukaku, Werner, or Odoi were on the pitch one of those chances in the first half would have gone in the back of the net. It might sound like an excuse but our injuries are affecting us.

Was hoping the overreactions would have subsided 12 hours later, no such luck 😄

In many ways I’d compare our current situation to the one at Manchester City in 2016. Guardiola came in, right away spent £200 million in his first summer.  This in addition to De Bruyne and Sterling that were signed the year before in preparation for Pep.
Were lauded as the title favorites right away but ultimately stumbled their way to a 3^rd place finish, only three points ahead of Arsenal in 5^th.

Then in 2017 Guardiola was able to spend another £300 million on five or six starters for his side. The signings + additional time to work with his players then secured them the title in a record-breaking way. Then we all know how they’ve kept rejuvenating the squad and kept winning since then.

My point being. Tuchel needs time and he also needs massive support in the market if we intend to compete. Because even Pep who many consider the greatest manager in this era was nowhere near a title challenge in this league before he had those two things.

So, a littlebit of patience is required. And then the club needs to support the manager in the market this upcoming summer and then we can hopefully be on our way towards a Premier League challenge again. Because we all know the current squad is not of the required standard. 

Last night’s game was not bad, so Tuchel prepared it well despite all the injuries and COVID-19 infected players. We had 23 shots, of which 10 were on target, and at least 4 clear chances in the first half to have put to sleep the game. Our inconsistency up front was our problem last night, we kept Everton in the game. So it was more of a Burnley type of game, unlucky not to get the three points, than a Watford type of game, lucky to get the points.

were I have issue with Tuchel is in his subs lately. There are players that should not be even on the bench but he keeps playing them. I get it, the starting players need some rest, but brining on Saul was criminal and we paid for it.

Everyone (ok not everyone but those panicking) needs to relax. Routine weak patch imo. Not even close to being a crisis. Media want to spin it as such. Mute it! Poor run can continue for a couple of games before I start to have doubts.  Also if you watch every game with “If we don’t win this one title challenge is definitely over” at the front of your mind, your disappointment will only be greater. Forget about it for now.

On 16/12/2021 at 02:43, Gol15 said:

I admit it does sound simple but I don't enjoy seeing our top players being so average for so long so I will just rant to you how I experience our current system here, just to try to explain that from a spectator's view our whole tactic seems to be putting the most weight at the wrong places;

I think that we depend too much on our full-backs to create something while our attackers basically play the decoy while being marked and the last game shows it.

We managed to win against Leeds due to our current tactic, sure it still works but the way it works it doesn't really help our strikers. It looks like it really doesn't matter who you put there, put prime Drogba it's still all up to our full back or defender to win us the game, that's how it looks like this season.

-First goal due to an important part of our system, high press. Full-back recovers the ball, plays a 1-2 pass and ultimately assists Mount. But you notice that Havertz isn't getting involved at all. So press high, count on the full-back to get it done, this time Alonso. I mean, props to Mount for his work rate, but he is going to do that in every formation and in every game, that's not really Tuchel telling him anything that's just how he has always been.

-Later on the attackers are still having it hard to get involved but Rudiger wins a penalty, again a CB plays a key role in our way of finding a goal and this has been a real feature this season for us, Rudiger has a lot of freedom when we have the ball he goes forward and carries the ball a lot, while our attackers are watching and being marked.

-Last goal Rudiger wins the penalty again, while Lukaku and Havertz are not involved at all and while Mount is next to the touchline passing to him, meaning not in a good position to do much.

All I see is these particular positions (Full back, Centre back) having to exploit the space they are given, while our striker is being static, this is our tactic and let's face it, it's not about catering to our star players. It begs the question why did we even need a huge signing of Lukaku, it could have been almost anyone.

But now let's compare our setup and result, to Man City's win against Leeds: Like day and night!
Their players are constantly moving into space and getting openings and their wingers get the ball in the box and then obviously they are more dangerous. Their star players get to shine.
We got 2 penalties due to Rudiger, without that detail I'm not sure if we manage to score 3 goals there and let's be honest, Rudiger winning those penalties was a vintage performance and somewhat a blunder from Leeds, odds are that won't happen again in the near future. Yes we score goals we have almost as many different scorers as Man City but the way we do it, we don't look like PL winners, they do.

I can't really say that our attack would automatically be better if we were to switch to another formation but I know this much, our wingers and attackers would automatically need to be more active, more involved and they would need to take more responsibility to get things done and to change the scoreboard.

 

 

Seems to me since both Kova and Kante have been injured we have brought the CBs much  more into the game offensively leaving us more open to the counter attack. 

I'm hoping the current play is about missing the injured midfield player not that we were great offensively then though less predictable.