Interesting hearing Klopp using us and Kovacic to drive home that the league should have been suspended. Ok, it’s self-serving to a degree on Klopp’s per but can’t argue that the level of absentees isn’t affecting outcomes.

but If they’re not going to suspend the league, can we at least suspend certain forms of analysis until a semblance of normality returns? Kind of weird that people complain simultaneously about the games being played in the first place and about how bad we are and how the Tuchel era is about to come to an end. 

3 hours ago, General said:

TT has been exemplary since he came, lost the FA Cup Final but remarkably won the CL. Season starts great win the Supercup and flying start in the prem, but in the last month when things have turned for the worst, key players out and now omicron leading up to todays nil nil. It’s quite apparent that he may be a world class coach with an in form fully fit squad but with what we witnessed the last week he’s no better than all the cup winning managers who had a slump the following season and got sh*tcanned by RA. There appears to be no plan B just repeating the same tactics that now plainly don’t work ?

Carlo - wins the double sacked next season

RDM - wins a cup double incl CL sacked the next season

Mour2 - wins the title sacked the next season 

AC - wins the title, next season wins FAC sacked the next season 

MS - wins EL, jumped before he was pushed !?

TT - wins the CL………………….

 

The wheels are slowly falling of the TT bandwagon, Arsenal whom we schooled on match day 2 are now 4th and 6 points behind. Cant see the Covid issue going away Villa away in prem next more dropped points ? 

If we sack Tuchel, then I give up. I am sick and tired of going through this same bullsh*t every season. We ain't getting a better coach than Tuchel, he's one of the best around. I was pissed when we sacked Lampard and I said we would be in the exact same position again with Tuchel, and here we are. It's starting to unravel just like it did for every other coach that has taken charge at this club. Eventually you need to start pointing your fingers somewhere else, because it's not the coach's fault every time. 

This club in the Roman era has always had players that turn it on when there is change or when things are going well, but they are also the types of players that start feeling sorry for themselves and stop playing when they hit a stumbling block. This has got to stop. I would rather we weed out that type of thing from our club instead of replacing the manager every season or two. 

I think people are overreacting a lot on here. Performances and results have been middling but hardly disastrous either. There’s only been one loss in this bad run. 
 

The players don’t look as if they’ve given up either which they clearly had at the end of the mourinho/conte reigns and they don’t look aimless like they did at the end of Lampards time. 
 
He’s been unlucky with injuries/covid so I’d fully back him to turn it around and get a comfortable top 3 finish and a good run in the CL/cups. 

46 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

If we sack Tuchel, then I give up. I am sick and tired of going through this same bullsh*t every season. We ain't getting a better coach than Tuchel, he's one of the best around. I was pissed when we sacked Lampard and I said we would be in the exact same position again with Tuchel, and here we are. It's starting to unravel just like it did for every other coach that has taken charge at this club. Eventually you need to start pointing your fingers somewhere else, because it's not the coach's fault every time. 

This club in the Roman era has always had players that turn it on when there is change or when things are going well, but they are also the types of players that start feeling sorry for themselves and stop playing when they hit a stumbling block. This has got to stop. I would rather we weed out that type of thing from our club instead of replacing the manager every season or two. 

While I very much agree on this occasion that Tuchel isn't doing anything that warrants his job being under scruinity I really don't understand why there's big resistance of Roman's methods in general. I look at what United went through prolonging Ole's misery or Arsenal refusing to act with a quite clear declined Wenger for so long and i am firmly grateful we aren't anything like that.

Mourinho, Conte, Ancelotti, Hiddink and Tuchel. The great times enjoyed under all the above came as a knock on effect from sacking the previous underperforming manager.

Also above everything else I don't think the players are phoning it in this time, we've just sadly lost players we can't afford to lose.

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

While I very much agree on this occasion that Tuchel isn't doing anything that warrants his job being under scruinity I really don't understand why there's big resistance of Roman's methods in general. I look at what United went through prolonging Ole's misery or Arsenal refusing to act with a quite clear declined Wenger for so long and i am firmly grateful we aren't anything like that.

Mourinho, Conte, Ancelotti, Hiddink and Tuchel. The great times enjoyed under all the above came as a knock on effect from sacking the previous underperforming manager.

Also above everything else I don't think the players are phoning it in this time, we've just sadly lost players we can't afford to lose.

You’re right about all that of that , but I think there has to be some sort of medium found. Klopp and Guardiola have both had a few dodgy spells but there never seemed to be any question of them getting the sack. 
 

Due to the history of managers getting sacked at Chelsea, it seems that after 3-4 bad games everyone is discussing the possibility of the manager getting sacked which is pretty crazy. 

25 minutes ago, Dubair said:

You’re right about all that of that , but I think there has to be some sort of medium found. Klopp and Guardiola have both had a few dodgy spells but there never seemed to be any question of them getting the sack. 
 

Due to the history of managers getting sacked at Chelsea, it seems that after 3-4 bad games everyone is discussing the possibility of the manager getting sacked which is pretty crazy. 

But is there any sacking that would have led to those managers being our Pep and Klopp if we persisted?

Scolari? defiently not. Ancelotti? Didn't have and still doesn't have any track record at the rebuild we needed at that point. AVB? That's one you could argue but it would have taken years of pain if we ever got there atall. Robbie? I love him but absolutely not. Jose? Time has well and truly vindicated that decision. Conte? Not unless he suddenly had a massive personality transplant.

For me there is more than one way to skin a cat. A stable ownership and consistent core of players (the old guard then Azpi/Hazard etc and now Mount/James etc) are giving us more than enough continuity.

If a medium/long term manager can neatly come alongside that then great (and if that turns out to be TT I'll be as happy as anyone), but we shouldn't obsess over it and we most certainly shouldn't give anyone unconditional time chasing that ideal.

Edited December 19, 20214 yr by Argo

One thing that we have never done is dominate the league for a sustained period. Our league titles have come from one off seasons that we couldn’t sustain the season after. 
 

I was hoping that after the CL win, we could kick on and win the league/another CL but it looks like injuries/fatigue have killed some of the momentum for us. 

17 minutes ago, Argo said:

But is there any sacking that would have led to those managers being our Pep and Klopp if we persisted?

Scolari? defiently not. Ancelotti? Didn't have and still doesn't have any track record at the rebuild we needed at that point. AVB? That's one you could argue but it would have taken years of pain if we ever got there atall. Robbie? I love him but absolutely not. Jose? Time has well and truly vindicated that decision. Conte? Not unless he suddenly had a massive personality transplant.

For me there is more than one way to skin a cat. A stable ownership and consistent core of players (the old guard then Azpi/Hazard etc and now Mount/James etc) are giving us more than enough continuity.

If a medium/long term manager can neatly come alongside that then great (and if that turns out to be TT I'll be as happy as anyone), but we shouldn't obsess over it and we most certainly shouldn't give anyone unconditional time chasing that ideal.

Yeah there’s a lot of very valid points there. Personally I think it was wrong to sack Mourinho first time around as he was still in his prime and the players loved him. We had an excellent squad at the time who spent the next two years under sub par/interim managers. I think mourinho could of achieved another title/CL win had he stayed. 
 

Ancelotti was an incredibly harsh sacking but it inadvertently led to a champions league win the next season, so it’s hard to criticise. All the rest of the sackings have been justified imo. 
 

I personally think Tuchel is the right man to break the mould of the hiring/firing of managers. It’s not that I’m obsessed with having a longer term manager but more that I genuinely don’t think there’s very many better than him at this moment, I think pretty much every other manager would be a downgrade bar a select few who aren’t available right now. 

He is right in saying we are six behind cott because of shocking misses and thrown away points against United, Burnley and Everton, rather than a full strength Wolves today. Today was a good point in the circumstances. Those other 3 piss poor results.

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

If we sack Tuchel, then I give up. I am sick and tired of going through this same bullsh*t every season. We ain't getting a better coach than Tuchel, he's one of the best around. I was pissed when we sacked Lampard and I said we would be in the exact same position again with Tuchel, and here we are. It's starting to unravel just like it did for every other coach that has taken charge at this club. Eventually you need to start pointing your fingers somewhere else, because it's not the coach's fault every time. 

This club in the Roman era has always had players that turn it on when there is change or when things are going well, but they are also the types of players that start feeling sorry for themselves and stop playing when they hit a stumbling block. This has got to stop. I would rather we weed out that type of thing from our club instead of replacing the manager every season or two. 

Is a matter of when not if imo, I mean only sarri was not.

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

One thing that we have never done is dominate the league for a sustained period. Our league titles have come from one off seasons that we couldn’t sustain the season after. 
 

I was hoping that after the CL win, we could kick on and win the league/another CL but it looks like injuries/fatigue have killed some of the momentum for us. 

We tend to become complacent in the next transfer window after we win a trophy. 2012, 2015, 2017 were all very poor windows for us. Even this season we might've signed Lukaku but our net spend is virtually zero if I'm not mistaken

We have some huge games ahead in January, and it is vital that we have some of our key players back and healthy by then. A lot of our recent dropped points have coincided with the injuries in key positions (LB and midfield). While LB is unlikely to be resolved quickly, I am more hopeful about midfield. But we need the likes of Kante and Kova to stay healthy. 

If we can get through January and make a reinforcement or 2 to the squad there is still a lot to play for this season, and a few twists and turns may yet happen. The league looks like a long shot with City winning so frequently, but we still have 2 domestic cups, Champions League, and the World Club Cup to play for.

Not sure of he agreed with it or not but several reports are saying the club have decided youth/reserves will not be called up as they don't want the league using them as an excuse to make us play games that could then be mostly made up of our youth team players. Like say how Leeds are.

Edited December 20, 20214 yr by axman2526

As I feared would happened once festive Chelsea showed their ugly heads again his job is being talked about on the line, questions are being asked of him and Roman's fingers are said to be getting twitchier than @Munkworth in a saints bar.

So far the majority of our fans are thankfully backing our manager, I hope Roman sees it the same way and backs him in January.

Had no net spending in the summer Roman,  how about 3 Christmas presents for our CL winning manager in Kounde, Tchouameni and Vlahovic? 😉

Edited December 20, 20214 yr by axman2526

Oh here we go again,rumours of not trusting/axing our manager, that will be from the plastic fans who expect us to win every game.TT is doing as well as can be expected during the circumstances.

10 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

If we sack Tuchel, then I give up. I am sick and tired of going through this same bullsh*t every season. We ain't getting a better coach than Tuchel, he's one of the best around. I was pissed when we sacked Lampard and I said we would be in the exact same position again with Tuchel, and here we are. It's starting to unravel just like it did for every other coach that has taken charge at this club. Eventually you need to start pointing your fingers somewhere else, because it's not the coach's fault every time. 

This club in the Roman era has always had players that turn it on when there is change or when things are going well, but they are also the types of players that start feeling sorry for themselves and stop playing when they hit a stumbling block. This has got to stop. I would rather we weed out that type of thing from our club instead of replacing the manager every season or two. 

For me it is more than different manager, I hate when there is lack of continuity. Instead of building the team, getting better every season, we kept changing direction

Conte wanted to play physical football, we signed bakayoko. Sarri came and he wanted possesion football,he signed jorgi.Lamp came and wanted to play fast,back 4. Tuchel came and wanted to play control football with back 3. 

Compare that to pool or city. Klopp came and slowly replaced and improved every area of the field so it fit what he want. Pep came and with $$ support quickly improved the team and city became a monster team in his 2nd season.

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

As I feared would happened once festive Chelsea showed their ugly heads again his job is being talked about on the line, questions are being asked of him and Roman's fingers are said to be getting twitchier than @Munkworth in a saints bar.

So far the majority of our fans are thankfully backing our manager, I hope Roman sees it the same way and backs him in January.

Had no net spending in the summer Roman,  how about 3 Christmas presents for our CL winning manager in Kounde, Tchouameni and Vlahovic? 😉

Hypothetically if we signed those players where would they play play? Can’t see where they would play in the current system. Signing Kounde means confining Silva to the bench, Tchoumeni in a mid 2 would be on the bench stuck behind Kovacic assuming Kante & Jorginho are the preferred starters, doubt Vlahovic would even pick up the phone because we already have Lukaku & Havertz competing for 1 spot. 

12 hours ago, Argo said:

But is there any sacking that would have led to those managers being our Pep and Klopp if we persisted?

Scolari? defiently not. Ancelotti? Didn't have and still doesn't have any track record at the rebuild we needed at that point. AVB? That's one you could argue but it would have taken years of pain if we ever got there atall. Robbie? I love him but absolutely not. Jose? Time has well and truly vindicated that decision. Conte? Not unless he suddenly had a massive personality transplant.

For me there is more than one way to skin a cat. A stable ownership and consistent core of players (the old guard then Azpi/Hazard etc and now Mount/James etc) are giving us more than enough continuity.

If a medium/long term manager can neatly come alongside that then great (and if that turns out to be TT I'll be as happy as anyone), but we shouldn't obsess over it and we most certainly shouldn't give anyone unconditional time chasing that ideal.

Yeah I think similarly re past sackings, and it’s actually why I don’t think Tuchel is anywhere near the danger zone yet. Granted, Roman is ruthless. He’s also a trader at heart, and a very good one. He has no qualms about cutting a losing position and can do it without batting an eyelid. Ok, it’s one thing to fold a commodities futures position that’s not going your way. Another entirely to fire staff as though they are just, well, a futures contract. But that’s Roman for you and perhaps what sets him apart and why he  got where he did.
 

Anyway, the point is his decisions have been pretty rational to date and he’s been proven right. Sacking Tuchel based on a few bad results amidst a wave of Covid that’s taken out half our first team would be highly irrational. If we get all our players back and continue to perform badly, then we can talk about whether his tenure is at risk. 

6 hours ago, ducavis said:

Hypothetically if we signed those players where would they play play? Can’t see where they would play in the current system. Signing Kounde means confining Silva to the bench, Tchoumeni in a mid 2 would be on the bench stuck behind Kovacic assuming Kante & Jorginho are the preferred starters, doubt Vlahovic would even pick up the phone because we already have Lukaku & Havertz competing for 1 spot. 

Kounde was being talked about on the right of the back 3. With the amount of injuries Kante and Kova pick up Tchouameni would get games to show his worth. Vlahovic may partner Lukaku, not sure to be honest was a toss up between him and Martinez from Inter for me.

7 hours ago, ducavis said:

Hypothetically if we signed those players where would they play play? Can’t see where they would play in the current system. Signing Kounde means confining Silva to the bench, Tchoumeni in a mid 2 would be on the bench stuck behind Kovacic assuming Kante & Jorginho are the preferred starters, doubt Vlahovic would even pick up the phone because we already have Lukaku & Havertz competing for 1 spot. 

Kounde is a long term replacement for Azpi, Kounde can also play RB if we ever moved to a back 4.

9 hours ago, ducavis said:

Hypothetically if we signed those players where would they play play? 

On a football pitch…

2 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Kounde is a long term replacement for Azpi, Kounde can also play RB if we ever moved to a back 4.

Isn’t Chalobah filling that role well currently? James is our RB though. For me if Tuchel persists with his 3-5-2, then a ball playing LCB competition for Rudiger is more of a priority in Jan for me. Kounde becomes a buy in Jan if we are trying to get ahead of the market.

 

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Kounde was being talked about on the right of the back 3. With the amount of injuries Kante and Kova pick up Tchouameni would get games to show his worth. Vlahovic may partner Lukaku, not sure to be honest was a toss up between him and Martinez from Inter for me.

Tchouameni at 21 is at an age he needs to be playing constantly for his development. You just look at how far James, Connor and even Livramento have developed playing regular football. Contrast with a CHO who is in & out of the side. Unless Tuchel is flexible in his approach and willing to play a mid-3, he will be stuck on the bench. Currently it is Jorginho & RLC for one position, Kante & Kovacic for the other position. He gets stuck on the bench, his development will stall and we are back at was he worth £50m. Oh forgot about Connor Gallagher coming back in the summer to compete for that 1 Kante, Kovacic & potentially Tchouameni role. He gets restless and demands a move, you can bet Utd, Liverpool, Spurs & Arsenal will be lining up to buy him.

Edited December 20, 20214 yr by ducavis

Who's to say Tchouameni does not displace one of our Midfielders? They are all getting on. If he is consistent he could well take it.

Nothing to say Kounde cannot play LCB or we may go to a back 4.

23 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Who's to say Tchouameni does not displace one of our Midfielders? They are all getting on. If he is consistent he could well take it.

Nothing to say Kounde cannot play LCB or we may go to a back 4.

Would be great to spend 120m in January for those two, but I don't see it happening... Tuchel has to get a nice 150m for the summer though.

35 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Would be great to spend 120m in January for those two, but I don't see it happening... Tuchel has to get a nice 150m for the summer though.

Sometimes we make some good buys in January, Brana for one.

With a net spending if 0 in the summer why not invest for TT? Can be sure City would if Pep asked them too.