11 hours ago, RMH said:

Yeah, Kante wasted much because it’s not his game to have the quality to assist or move the ball forward. He’s done today his job plus he had to be a Fabregas? In the meantime Jorginho absolutely missing from the game. But Kante is the guilty midfielder today? Come off it. Kante did his job, it was Jorginho who could not do anything because he’s rubbish when man marked and he hasn’t got the ability to loose his man when tightly marked. Tuchel got it wrong, he should have brought on Kova or Gilmour (oh, wait!) for Jorgi instead of being happy with te draw at f**king Leeds and think to save Kova for Atlético. I’m not saying Jorginho is bad, he’s just not suited for the tactics played by Leeds today. Bielsa got one over Tuchel when we should have got the three points back to the Bridge.

Well if you ask me, Kante had a great game overall vs Leeds. He had the most passes, tackles and he even dribbled with the ball the most so you can even argue that nobody was better than him stat-wise.
But you know he could score some great goals before and assist as well so I also have seen him being better in the final third, even so I really didn't expect him to unlock the Leeds defense and solve the game for us, that's just me others may believe that with so much space he should have done better but then again I'm not blaming Kante nor Jorginho for real, IMO if you want to look at players that didn't do enough that would be Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz and Mount.

Before the game I thought the way Leeds plays makes them a perfect opponent for us and that we will score goals against them but Tuchel changed the formation and took a risk to use this particular game to start Pulisic - I was hoping that Pulisic would show his quality but in this formation most of our players had a player on them and couldn't really shake off any of them for real in a 1v1 and most of the second half it was hard for our more forward players to even come deep in order to receive the ball, it looked to me as if Leeds players have better fitness because they were playing intensely against our attackers throughout the game so now in hindsight it's clear that this game didn't suit Pulisic and the pitch wasn't in the best shape either so the one good thing is that nobody got injured.

Edited March 14, 20215 yr by Gol15

I honeslty feel like Tuchel out tacticed himself. Every knows that leeds weakness is setpieces and crosses but for some reason he left Giroud on the bench and played Havertz as a false 9. I dont have a problem with havertz as a false 9 but we need strikers/attackers who are willing to run into the box when Havertz drops deep like CHO or Werner but instead Tuchel played Mount and Ziyech  who prefer to have the ball to feet rather than run into space. His substitutions were horrible as well. It would have made more sense to bring on Giroud instead of CHO as his final sub unless he was happy to take a draw.  

      Tuchel has been good but his naivety has cost us 4 points against Leeds and Southampton who were in terrible form but both got points when they played us

23 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Well if you ask me, Kante had a great game overall vs Leeds. He had the most passes, tackles and he even dribbled with the ball the most so you can even argue that nobody was better than him stat-wise.
But you know he could score some great goals before and assist as well so I also have seen him being better in the final third, even so I really didn't expect him to unlock the Leeds defense and solve the game for us, that's just me others may believe that with so much space he should have done better but then again I'm not blaming Kante nor Jorginho for real, IMO if you want to look at players that didn't do enough that would be Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz and Mount.

Before the game I thought the way Leeds plays makes them a perfect opponent for us and that we will score goals against them but Tuchel changed the formation and took a risk to use this particular game to start Pulisic - I was hoping that Pulisic would show his quality but in this formation most of our players had a player on them and couldn't really shake off any of them for real in a 1v1 and most of the second half it was hard for our more forward players to even come deep in order to receive the ball, it looked to me as if Leeds players have better fitness because they were playing intensely against our attackers throughout the game so now in hindsight it's clear that this game didn't suit Pulisic and the pitch wasn't in the best shape either so the one good thing is that nobody got injured.

Agreed. I think the first half was decent enough so the change of formation and personel wasn't THAT bad and I also think it's important trying to implement different strategies - a back four was one of the major issues lots of members if this forum were almost crying for for example.. so hindsight is 20/20. My only real gripe were his late adjustments - Leeds play super physical so if I bring in players like CHO and Werner who are still not on top of their game nor experienced elite players within the league I'd say one can expect them to need some time to gel in. I suspect he was extremely eyeing the Atleti game already (Kova would have been a great help in this game but I wouldn't have let him play vs Leeds either) and I do think that CHO and Werner may play crucial roles in that game because of their speed for counter attacking and he really wanted to minimize the risk of additional injuries because of the pitful pitch. Southampton was before the first leg as well, wasn't it?

1 hour ago, weetee said:

Agreed. I think the first half was decent enough so the change of formation and personel wasn't THAT bad and I also think it's important trying to implement different strategies - a back four was one of the major issues lots of members if this forum were almost crying for for example.. so hindsight is 20/20. My only real gripe were his late adjustments - Leeds play super physical so if I bring in players like CHO and Werner who are still not on top of their game nor experienced elite players within the league I'd say one can expect them to need some time to gel in. I suspect he was extremely eyeing the Atleti game already (Kova would have been a great help in this game but I wouldn't have let him play vs Leeds either) and I do think that CHO and Werner may play crucial roles in that game because of their speed for counter attacking and he really wanted to minimize the risk of additional injuries because of the pitful pitch. Southampton was before the first leg as well, wasn't it?

Yes you're right. I think @axman2526 also said that it's pretty obvious that Tuchel's focus in the Atletico game, and others said that these 2 points lost are forgiven if we pass Atletico.

On 13/03/2021 at 20:40, Snedger said:

I know this will likely be rubbished, but I’m absolutely convinced that we’ve burnt huge sums on disastrous signings. Most of them sure looked ok on paper, but for what ever the reason, here and now, Werner, Pulisic, Havertz and Ziyech are absolutely f**king useless and there’s no remote sign that any of them will ever do anything for us. 

I respectfully disagree with the so-called absence of remote signs. We have seen very good (albeit too few) displays of those players. To write the new boys off who have not even had one full season in a foreign league is way too early for me. There are players new to the Premier League who hit the ground running, which is impressive, and we think that's the standard. When our new players don't, we're disappointed and call them rubbish. Warning: Tuchel is also new to the PL, and despite a non-losing start, he's bound to make some mistakes for which he will probably be called naive. 

Pulisic is at present very disappointing, his regular injuries, fear of a new injury and not getting some playing rhythm may be to blame for that. But for him it's the same: we know what he is capable of, he's shown us last season. 

These are all professionals with a few years of experience under their belts, we can assume they are not rubbish. Ziyech by now is more famous for his "don't care" demeanor than for his passes unfortunately, he may be one who is ultimately unsuited for a fast and physical league. But I will defer my judgment on all of them until at least 10 matches into the next season.

Edited March 15, 20215 yr by Valerie

Valarie,  

I cant see Ziyech fitting into Tuchels system or his call for work rate. We've seen a few good games where Ziyech played on the right and delivered with his left. then injuries. Covid wiped out Havertz's season so we'll know about him next season, but I thought he was a midfielder who could play in advanced positions not a number 9 when he turned up. That was Werners job who actually looked halfway decent at the start and has faded into mediocrity. It sort of coincided wit Lampard dismissal rumours while we were going top of the league. I thought both havertz and werner cited Lampard as to why they signed for us and could explain the drop off in form. 

I'd love for Pulisic to come good. I really like his determination to prove his fitness levels and to us fans he can cope. I think he might be a little too lightweight. But he's still not established himself as an automatic starter. On a completely different note can we say the Bundesliga isnt as good as its made out?  Jordan Sancho looks world class as does the Bellingham kid who signed for dortmund. Chrisitensen had rave reviews and was touted as a 30 million CB. 

Anyhow, despite the lack of form, we're somehow holding a place in the top four and im praying for other teams results to go for us. 

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Yes you're right. I think @axman2526 also said that it's pretty obvious that Tuchel's focus in the Atletico game, and others said that these 2 points lost are forgiven if we pass Atletico.

Indeed Gol, TT has been used to a club where all that matters is CL and a lot of European managers value the CL more than the domestic competitions.

Fact is we have a 50/50 chance to go through after getting a positive result in the first leg. Had we suffered a Bayern level stuffing then the approach would be different.

On 13/03/2021 at 15:04, RMH said:

But that’s the whole thing with Jorginho, they put a man on him and he’s just incapable of doing anything and he doesn’t even try to get into spaces or dribble his man. You out Kova there and he still drives the ball forward dribbling and getting rid of his marker.

But also when it's Jorgi and Kova instead of Jorgi and Kante the former isnt marked so tightly as Kova can cause massive problems turning mild situations into a dangerous looking attack.

As I said the other day the whole Jorginho vs Kante proves that it should be Kova plus one of them for the midfield positions and in my opinion who that said other is should be opponent based.

Edited March 15, 20215 yr by Argo

24 minutes ago, Argo said:

But also when it's Jorgi and Kova instead of Jorgi and Kante the former isnt marked so tightly as Kova can cause massive problems turning mild situations into a dangerous looking attack.

As I said the other day the whole Jorginho vs Kante proves that it should be Kova plus one of them for the midfield positions and in my opinion who that said other is should be opponent based.

With that said I think there is a real tactical reason why Kante has been a sub for Kovacic in the most recent times, he's at his best when he has the freedom to run and to regain possession so you can't replace Jorginho with him if he will leave his position very often. We need another DM that is more classical in that sense that he is more disciplined and stays back.

23 minutes ago, Argo said:

But also when it's Jorgi and Kova instead of Jorgi and Kante the former isnt marked so tightly as Kova can cause massive problems turning mild situations into a dangerous looking attack.

As I said the other day the whole Jorginho vs Kante proves that it should be Kova plus one of them for the midfield positions and in my opinion who that said other is should be opponent based.

Agree. I think that Leeds' tactics did not suite Jorginho's game and it should be Kovacic there. We needed Kante to break their attacks, as they are dangerous offensively, but it was obvious by half time that Jorginho would not influence the game as he did against Everton or Liverpool. Kovacic is more suited to break free from his marker, being capable of driving the ball forward in tight spaces. But I'm not sure that it should always be Kovacic plus one of the two in every game game because then we are left without anyone covering our defence (mind you, if we keep playing a back 5, I'm not sure we need a cover there). This highlights the need for a proper DM, or going to a 433.

20 minutes ago, RMH said:

Agree. I think that Leeds' tactics did not suite Jorginho's game and it should be Kovacic there. We needed Kante to break their attacks, as they are dangerous offensively, but it was obvious by half time that Jorginho would not influence the game as he did against Everton or Liverpool. Kovacic is more suited to break free from his marker, being capable of driving the ball forward in tight spaces. But I'm not sure that it should always be Kovacic plus one of the two in every game game because then we are left without anyone covering our defence (mind you, if we keep playing a back 5, I'm not sure we need a cover there). This highlights the need for a proper DM, or going to a 433.

I'm thinking more about how the other team set's up, when we're facing teams largely/solely set up to frustrate us it's the Jorgi/Kova partnership for me (Mount as the third if 433), Kante frustrates the hell out of me in those games and i'll go as far as saying Barkley was more suitable in them. When we face teams like Leeds and Liverpool who will always try and play then ofcourse Kante has to play those one's.

16 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'm thinking more about how the other team set's up, when we're facing teams largely/solely set up to frustrate us it's the Jorgi/Kova partnership for me (Mount as the third if 433), Kante frustrates the hell out of me in those games and i'll go as far as saying Barkley was more suitable in them. When we face teams like Leeds and Liverpool who will always try and play then ofcourse Kante has to play those one's.

Yes, but when paying Liverpool (who were pressing less to Jorginho than Leeds) or Leeds without Jorginho, both Kovacic and Kante will go forward and we are left without a DM to protect the defenders. That may be alright if we are playing a 343 when we can defend with 5, but against a team like Liverpool I'm not sure that Kova-Kante would have worked as well as it did Jorginho-Kante. For Leeds, when they were pressing so tightly Jorginho, for me Kova for Jorginho would have been the substitution to make the midfield more effective, but against better quality teams it may not work that well.

Wasn’t sure where to post this.

Just noticed, another International Break and once again we’ve been given the 12.30pm kick off against West Brom straight after, just like we did in the last one in November when we played away at Newcastle.

The same team getting the early slot after the International Break twice in a row shouldn’t happen, not when there’s 20 teams to choose from.

I feel like we’ve been tucked up by BT Sport again.

Edited March 15, 20215 yr by 2211

17 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Indeed Gol, TT has been used to a club where all that matters is CL and a lot of European managers value the CL more than the domestic competitions.

Fact is we have a 50/50 chance to go through after getting a positive result in the first leg. Had we suffered a Bayern level stuffing then the approach would be different.

+ TT lost the final last year so even on a personal level I think he is extremely eager to go as far as somewhat possible in that competition (especially considering he had a good shot with PSG at the title this year despite them struggeling a good bit the first half of the season so I guess he felt a bit robbed there too).

 

 

9 hours ago, 2211 said:

Wasn’t sure where to post this.

Just noticed, another International Break and once again we’ve been given the 12.30pm kick off against West Brom straight after, just like we did in the last one in November when we played away at Newcastle.

The same team getting the early slot after the International Break twice in a row shouldn’t happen, not when there’s 20 teams to choose from.

I feel like we’ve been tucked up by BT Sport again.

And just guess who has a nice late sunday kick off?

On 15/03/2021 at 22:43, 2211 said:

Wasn’t sure where to post this.

Just noticed, another International Break and once again we’ve been given the 12.30pm kick off against West Brom straight after, just like we did in the last one in November when we played away at Newcastle.

The same team getting the early slot after the International Break twice in a row shouldn’t happen, not when there’s 20 teams to choose from.

I feel like we’ve been tucked up by BT Sport again.

Even when we get to play on a Saturday it’s the sh*ttiest kick-off time...

Soft but I'll take it. 

Rudiger ???