7 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

Leeds let him have the ball. Many teams do it. And he can’t create anything, so it works. Looks good watching, as it appears he’s getting into space and driving forward, but it’s by design of the opposition.

What a load of rubbish.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

It's weird because everybody seems to be praising Kante's performance, but I thought he was very poor going forward. His passes may have successfully reached their man more often than not, but they weren't clean passes. They were often played too far infront or behind the player he was passing to. His touch at times was poor too forcring him to overrun the ball and make things scrappy.

Kante is not designed for passing. He is our Energizer Bunny to hassle and disrupt the oppositions midfield.

I am perfectly happy with his a little more than occasional under passing and overrunning when he performs his main function tirelessly and doggedly. 

Just now, just said:

What a load of rubbish.

Watch the game again. They played close to Jorginho and didn’t let him do anything. Kante was left in space, and yes, he struggles to create.

There was a lack of quality and conviction in our forward play, we lacked players who can score the first goal in a match or a late winning goal.

Tammy, Mason and Giroud are probably the most likely we have at the moment.

Did Seem Like Ziyech Was Lost A Few Times During The Game

3 minutes ago, Malta Blue said:

my point is 4th isn't necessarily 'safe' for the CL if we want to guarantee CL next season we need to finish in the top 3 somehow. 

having said that 4th is probably good enough.

of course i'm not discounting us winning CL and costing Everton a European slot just to piss off my father in law

I thought all top 4 spots finish in Champions League? Even if team below wins Europa. Or are you talking about a case where Liverpool finish outside top 4 and win Champions League?

While I don't think top 3 is out of the question we probably cannot afford to drop too many more points, especially against rivals for the top spots. Even though we have found some consistency in defense we still struggle to score and most of our wins under Tuchel have been by narrow margins. Unless we can find our goals there is a danger we will miss out on top 4.

 

What a massive loss of 2 pts this is... almost feels like a defeat! I can't help but think that matches like these are what's going to hurt us in the race for top 4.

I thought the first half an hour was quite entertaining but the rest of the match was disappointing, and this result feels like a missed opportunity that may come back to bite us.

I don’t know what to do about the attack, lots of talent there but it rarely seems to click. Pulisic (although the had some good moments) and Ziyech are badly out of form, Werner and Havertz have being playing OK lately but seem to be cursed in front of goal, and I don’t know what’s going on with Abraham, but people already writing our entire attack off as ‘sh*t’ are just being ridiculous. 

2 minutes ago, Stas1 said:

Kante is not designed for passing. He is our Energizer Bunny to hassle and disrupt the oppositions midfield.

I am perfectly happy with his a little more than occasional under passing and overrunning when he performs his main function tirelessly and doggedly. 

Not a coincidence that he always performs the best in this role where he is more free to roam and to go forward to chase down the ball. Happy that Tuchel is using him in the correct way.

2 minutes ago, bluedave said:

I thought the first half an hour was quite entertaining but the rest of the match was disappointing, and this result feels like a missed opportunity that may come back to bite us.

I don’t know what to do about the attack, lots of talent there but it rarely seems to click. Pulisic (although the had some good moments) and Ziyech are badly out of form, Werner and Havertz have being playing OK lately but seem to be cursed in front of goal, and I don’t know what’s going on with Abraham, but people already writing our entire attack off as ‘sh*t’ are just being ridiculous. 

I believe Abraham is still nursing a sore ankle

2 minutes ago, Stas1 said:

Kante is not designed for passing. He is our Energizer Bunny to hassle and disrupt the oppositions midfield.

I am perfectly happy with his a little more than occasional under passing and overrunning when he performs his main function tirelessly and doggedly. 

Well if we want to play this possession based football, then what Kante offers isn't good enough. What you are saying about Kante is what you would expect of a player playing for a side sitting deep or playing counter attacking football, but that's not what we are and haven't been for the past 3 seasons now.

6 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I thought all top 4 spots finish in Champions League? Even if team below wins Europa. Or are you talking about a case where Liverpool finish outside top 4 and win Champions League?

While I don't think top 3 is out of the question we probably cannot afford to drop too many more points, especially against rivals for the top spots. Even though we have found some consistency in defense we still struggle to score and most of our wins under Tuchel have been by narrow margins. Unless we can find our goals there is a danger we will miss out on top 4.

 

He means that if both the Champions League and Europa League are won by teams that finish outside of the top 4, then only the top 3 can qualify for the Champions League. You can only have 5 teams from one league in the Champions League, no more than that, and the winners of the European competitions are guaranteed 2 of those spots.

Edited March 13, 20215 yr by Scott Harris

That game has done me. I’m having a nap. 

1 minute ago, forbzy said:

I thought all top 4 spots finish in Champions League? Even if team below wins Europa. Or are you talking about a case where Liverpool finish outside top 4 and win Champions League?

While I don't think top 3 is out of the question we probably cannot afford to drop too many more points, especially against rivals for the top spots. Even though we have found some consistency in defense we still struggle to score and most of our wins under Tuchel have been by narrow margins. Unless we can find our goals there is a danger we will miss out on top 4.

 

regardless of what team finishes where. there will be a maximum of 5 English clubs in CL next season, winners of Europa league and winners of CL automatically qualify over any league standings. with so many English clubs in European competitions its probable (if not likely) so if we have two teams who finish outside of the top 4 win both competitions 4th place misses out and gets dumped into Europa league. With so many teams in and around the top four our only way for us to guarantee CL football next season is to finish in the top 3 or win the CL (the latter of which I think not unlikely)

22 minutes ago, Deino said:

I disagree. Kante won so many aerial balls from corners, and started our attacks so many times. It's the forwards' movements that was terrible. No one dragged the CB's away bar Havertz but then Havertz dropped to midfield for some reason

Winning the ball, and doing something with it are 2 very different things.

Very few people will disagree that Kante is one of the very best in the world at winning it....

...but in this system, he needs to do more. I lost count of the number of times that he drove forward, striding  from the halfway line, with possession of the ball, only to fail to play it forward to a player making a run. Instead dallying on the ball, holding it 5 secs too long, by which point Leeds regained shape and the moment was lost. 

He wasn't alone, but was the most guilty of this today. The fact he panics whenever he has a sight of goal also doesn't help, as when he was 1 on 1 today, and instead of hitting it low and hard at the keeper, tried to cut it back into a crowded box. 

 His decision making let's him down badly, and it hurt us today.

Edited March 13, 20215 yr by nonotnowjim

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Pretty sure we saved Kovacic for Atletico, sadly the players involved here couldn't do the job and just score against a team that doesn't really care about having clean sheets at all. I thought this would be our perfect opponent but then Tuchel changed the formation and our players struggled to shake off any player in a 1v1, we just didn't really show up today despite the fair amount of shots on target.

I think the side picked is a reflection on a focus for Atletico. 

Pulisic has not started a game before today under TT for example. We know Mount and Jorginho cannot play. 

Seems to me not only Kovacic, but James, Alonso, CHO, Werner, Giroud were all saved for that game.

We changed shape, gave chances to the like of Pulisic and Ziyech but we got it wrong today, TT got it wrong and we are lucky that the better offensive side did not win.

7 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Well if we want to play this possession based football, then what Kante offers isn't good enough. What you are saying about Kante is what you would expect of a player playing for a side sitting deep or playing counter attacking football, but that's not what we are and haven't been for the past 3 seasons now.

Fully agree. Kante is a beast at what he does (getting around and winning the ball) - but this system and style needs more. 

33 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

4th place is safe for a Champions League spot. They changed that rule a few years back. I think it was after we won the Champions League. 

No its not safe. We would lose it just like Spurs did.

24 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

It's weird because everybody seems to be praising Kante's performance, but I thought he was very poor going forward. His passes may have successfully reached their man more often than not, but they weren't clean passes. They were often played too far infront or behind the player he was passing to. His touch at times was poor too forcing him to overrun the ball and make things scrappy.

Again, fully agree - on the same page as stated earlier in this thread. He hurt us today 

8 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

Watch the game again. They played close to Jorginho and didn’t let him do anything. Kante was left in space, and yes, he struggles to create.

I don't need to. I will see the same as I did before. Kante was involved in everything. Winning the ball, running with the ball, supporting attacks, helping the defence, simply our best outfield player. In contrast you would not have known Jorginho was out there. Complete ghost today. Apparently, according to you, because he was closed down. Really? That's why? Well you have made the point for me, why play someone who can be completely nullified so easily. And if you want to talk about passing, which allegedly is Jorginho's greatest asset, what passing did we see today? Oh, I forgot we couldn't see it because they closed him down? Not his fault. Give me a break.

Chilwell is currently stealing a living as a footballer. He should donate this week's wages to the charity. Don't know what's happened to him but this was so bad, at some point I felt he'd bet big on himself being the worst player on the pitch before the match, it looked that terrible.

Poor performance and a missed opportunity. Tuchel got it wrong. We had chances to score in the first 45, but in the second half it was Mendy who earned us a point because we could have easily lost.

Poor Today, back to being wasteful final third, the final pass and decision making on so many occasions was awful. Tricky conditions no doubt but we're so much better than that.

Too many players off it, Ziyech again, looks as though the Premiership is too robust for him im afraid.

Never mind, perhaps it was the performance we needed to straighten the heads for Atletico 

KTBFFH

15 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

Watch the game again. They played close to Jorginho and didn’t let him do anything. Kante was left in space, and yes, he struggles to create.

But that’s the whole thing with Jorginho, they put a man on him and he’s just incapable of doing anything and he doesn’t even try to get into spaces or dribble his man. You out Kova there and he still drives the ball forward dribbling and getting rid of his marker.

2 minutes ago, just said:

I don't need to. I will see the same as I did before. Kante was involved in everything. Winning the ball, running with the ball, supporting attacks, helping the defence, simply our best outfield player. In contrast you would not have known Jorginho was out there. Complete ghost today. Apparently, according to you, because he was closed down. Really? That's why? Well you have made the point for me, why play someone who can be completely nullified so easily. And if you want to talk about passing, which allegedly is Jorginho's greatest asset, what passing did we see today? Oh, I forgot we couldn't see it because they closed him down? Not his fault. Give me a break.

Honestly surprised that you think he was our best player today. One of the worst for me, due to the number of times he stifled our attacks and dallied on the ball over and over again, which let Leeds get in shape. This more often than not ended up with kante  choosing the lazy/easy 5yd sideways or backwards pass. 
 

Very frustrating performance . Even my 9 yr old lad was shouting "pass it forward!" at the tv, directed at kante. 

8 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

No its not safe. We would lose it just like Spurs did.

Only if a team outside of the top 4 wins the Europa league as well. If Liverpool were to win the Champions League and we were to finish 4th, without an English side winning the Europa League, 4th would be enough for Champions League.