I suppose every team has cycles for better or worse. Liverpoo, Man Ure, Arse, Man City have all gone thru bad patches at some point and underachieved. Look at when Leicester won the Prem. Who wudda thought that. But the big teams were all off form which helped   This is our bad patch. We'll be back. We are Chelsea. Til Saturday KTBFFH

2 minutes ago, Carloseyebrow said:

Professional footballers can’t play a simple pass but it’s the managers fault.

Then how do you explain how they were comfortable making "simple passes" and then some as recently as Saltor's interim match? Or against Dortmund? Even Villa we did everything but score.

Remember last time Lampard was here and it "wasn't his fault" a different set of players couldn't do the basics? I'm guessing i don't need to remind you what happened once they got some proper coaching in them.

14 minutes ago, Argo said:

Ironically had we kept Potter we'd probably be well in the 40s by now by virtue of our defensive record alone.

Frank chest thumping " Potter, the worst manager, statistically in Chelsea history? That's another record i've now got, woohoo"

11 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I cannot think of a single decision these clowns of owners have made that has had any merit. Every decision, even social media soundbite just seems to add to the embarrassment. I just wish they would get on and appoint Pochettino, or in fact, any proper manager now, and then shut the fck up for at least a year. Stay in the US and watch us on the telly.

I think Pochettino will be looking at the games and thinking about who he would like in his squad.  It may well be that the board want to sell some of those players to balance the books and that is delaying his appointment. Its a tricky time and they may well cock this up aswell . 

10 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Have I missed something here ?

Potter fan boy Swedish Swans Man, continuing to hang around like a bad fart, taking the pi$$ at every opportunity, that's all

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Then how do you explain how they were comfortable making "simple passes" and then some as recently as Saltor's interim match? Or against Dortmund? Even Villa we did everything but score.

Remember last time Lampard was here and it "wasn't his fault" a different set of players couldn't do the basics? I'm guessing i don't need to remind you what happened once they got some proper coaching in them.

Yeah that’s right, Lampard has coached it out of them.

4 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

clearly there is no way to salvage this season

the only useful thing to do would be to give some young players some minutes 

Slonina could make his debut without pressure 

we all expect to lose anyway

Its a fair point, although i do remember Allardyce doing it with West Ham against a Championship Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup and getting his arse handed to him

Maybe the new owners looked at Real Madrid and wanted to build their own Galacticos. Just buy some expensive players and that should do it. Americans and "soccer" eh?

1 minute ago, Carloseyebrow said:

Yeah that’s right, Lampard has coached it out of them.

If you can coach something in, you can coach it out.

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

One of the current top 4 teams (and even ourselves last season to an extent) are case studies as what difference a top coach makes.

9 of the 11 starters for Newcastle against Spurs when they went 5 up in 20 minutes were there under Bruce.

Then let’s all hope that these fruitcake investors can somehow manage to identify and appoint a brilliant top coach and not interfere and feck it up.

2 minutes ago, Andy North said:

If you can coach something in, you can coach it out.

With the greatest of respect, Lampard is not that good

4 minutes ago, Carloseyebrow said:

Yeah that’s right, Lampard has coached it out of them.

Well, in a round about way kind of.

I am not going to say that the average footballer is thick, but they are used to structure and working through particular routines and patterns in that framework. When that framework is not there, and they don't have the requisite level of fitness, then they can easily fall into the shambolic state we now find ourselves in. So, no not coached it out of them, but certainly Frank and his team look culpable for not putting into place a defined structure for the players to adhere to and then sticking to that

Just now, Carloseyebrow said:

With the greatest of respect, Lampard is not that good

I'm sorry to say but I think a byproduct of Frank's coaching is that some players confidence levels have dropped even further. That's tantamount to coaching something out of someone.

I think for the remainder of the season the priority should be seeing which of the attackers realistically could work at Chelsea.  I'm not sure a much better starting XI would have been feasible based on the current squad today, other than I would have definitely not started Kova on recent form.

Against Bournemouth  I would bring Ruben into a 3 or simply move to a 3-5-2, Kova is offering nothing.

There was talk of Felix being loaned next season again.  If this is the case, why oh why is Ziyech, who clearly is not going to be here long term, being substituted on ahead on him?

Lots of thinking to do and lots to digest.  Basics like attempting some more long balls or balls in the channels when faced with high presses might also be worth a shot.

I was annoyed at 3-0, unfortunately it turned quite apathetic after a while

11 minutes ago, Carloseyebrow said:

With the greatest of respect, Lampard is not that good

I am actually starting to wonder if Frank has decided to come back and commit the footballing equivalent of revenge porn for us sacking him the first time

5 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Well, in a round about way kind of.

I am not going to say that the average footballer is thick, but they are used to structure and working through particular routines and patterns in that framework. When that framework is not there, and they don't have the requisite level of fitness, then they can easily fall into the shambolic state we now find ourselves in. So, no not coached it out of them, but certainly Frank and his team look culpable for not putting into place a defined structure for the players to adhere to and then sticking to that

My ultimate point here is not a 5 yard misplaced pass, it’s the fact that these players are getting rinsed for not being good enough, should never wear the shirt again type comments for most of the season, not just the last 4 weeks.

We have reaped everything and more than that we sowed.

I have not nor never have said Lampard is the solution, but he is not the problem.

I don’t understand how after 4 managers this season, some people still believe this is a manager issue.

My humble opinion is that it is overwhelmingly a players issue, who should be able under any circumstances play a short pass.

29 minutes ago, Snedger said:

This is such a mess. I find it incredible how most people seem to think that this is just an isolated bad season and that a new manager will see us suddenly be good again.

I actually believe that next season will feel worse than this. This disaster was not expected and has felt quite surreal. Almost like an out of body experience. But next season will be an awful slog as we struggle to an eighth or ninth place finish and without the distraction of CL football. Even with my optimistic hat on, we are three or four years away from even being top four material again.

Yeah this is close to where I am unfortunately. Too much “return to normal” expectation for next season. I remember back in early season a lot of us were seeing parallels with Man U post Ferguson, implying some time in the wilderness. I was in that camp, as I think there’s just something about major overhauls / the bursting of bubbles/regime change or whatever this is. The unwind is slow and painful. But I now think ours - the Roman era - was a much bigger bubble, particularly when you consider we were / are - let’s face it - a much smaller club than United.

So we were in for a rough spell no matter what post-Roman. But to make matters worse, we have these new owners that are a) arrogant wxnkers and crucially b) almost certainly overpaid. People aren’t making enough of this. When you overpay for stuff, bad things happen, especially when you do it with borrowed money. And that’s before you even get to the subsequent spending. How the hell is this going to work out? 600 million!  If it does, I’ll have to start assuming no business will ever fail again. Maybe I should just go and start a business… any business. 

The supposed wealth of these current owners is much more brittle than many realise. They are the beneficiaries of a 12 year US-centric bull market - a period during which all sorts of stupid investments were made at silly prices. As with any cycle, as it matures the aura of invincibility grows and people make increasingly stupid decisions with increasing levels of borrowed money. Boehly and co epitomise the phenomenon. It’s almost too textbook to be true. 
 

For all these reasons, I fear our unwind will be way more painful than any analogue suggests (Man U post-Ferguson would be a dream). 

Edited May 2, 20233 yr by Dean

Just now, Carloseyebrow said:

My ultimate point here is not a 5 yard misplaced pass, it’s the fact that these players are getting rinsed for not being good enough, should never wear the shirt again type comments for most of the season, not just the last 4 weeks.

We have reaped everything and more than that we sowed.

I have not nor never have said Lampard is the solution, but he is not the problem.

I don’t understand how after 4 managers this season, some people still believe this is a manager issue.

My humble opinion is that it is overwhelmingly a players issue, who should be able under any circumstances play a short pass.

Very much agree with this.  I think it's a combination of factors, but it definitely feels like a lot of players riding on the previous laurels of success of the club and feeling that being associated with them exempts them from the struggle, desire and fight to give what other teams are clearly willing to do, coupled with a tactical insecurity that makes actions that should be second nature become confused and laborious.  Having a manager that won't accept this lack of real 110% effort or is not afraid to drop players is likely also something the squad is missing.

Fundamentally, I would only say that 6/7 of today's starting XI should even be in the squad next year.  That feels like a relegation level indication of squad quality presently. 

10 minutes ago, Andy North said:

I'm sorry to say but I think a byproduct of Frank's coaching is that some players confidence levels have dropped even further. That's tantamount to coaching something out of someone.

A team that has underperformed all season, causing the sacking of 2 managers.

Common denominator is the squad.

People have cried  and cried on here about Tuchel, Potter, ffs Bruno got one game and was rinsed, Lampard is just joining the queue.

Bringing another manager in will do nothing with this group, no backbone, no balls, limited quality, blame the manager.

 

5 minutes ago, Dean said:

Yeah this is close to where I am unfortunately. Too much “return to normal” expectation for next season. I remember back in early season a lot of us were seeing parallels with Man U post Ferguson, implying some time in the wilderness. I was in that camp, as I think there’s just something about major overhauls / the bursting of bubbles/regime change or whatever this is. The unwind is slow and painful. But I now think ours - the Roman era - was a much bigger bubble, particularly when you consider we were / are - let’s face it - a much smaller club than United.

So we were in for a rough spell no matter what post-Roman. But to make matters worse, we have these new owners that are a) arrogant wxnkers and crucially b) almost certainly overpaid. People aren’t making enough of this. When you overpay for stuff, bad things happen, especially when you do it with borrowed money. And that’s before you even get to the subsequent spending. How the hell is this going to work out? 600 million!  If it does, I’ll have to start assuming no business will ever fail again. Maybe I should just go and start a business… any business. 

The supposed wealth of these current owners is much more brittle than many realise. They are the beneficiaries of a 12 year US-centric bull market - a period during which all sorts of stupid investments were made at silly prices. As with any cycle, as it matures the aura of invincibility grows and people make increasingly stupid decisions with increasing levels of borrowed money. Boehly and co epitomise the phenomenon. It’s almost too textbook to be true. 
 

For all these reasons, I fear our unwind will be way more painful than any analogue suggests (Man U post-Ferguson would be a dream). 

Really like this. This may need to be pinned and revisited in a couple of years.

I read your third paragraph and thought yep, Ozark in real life.

Read your fourth paragraph and again thought, ah, yep, can see that as well 

4 minutes ago, Carloseyebrow said:

My ultimate point here is not a 5 yard misplaced pass, it’s the fact that these players are getting rinsed for not being good enough, should never wear the shirt again type comments for most of the season, not just the last 4 weeks.

We have reaped everything and more than that we sowed.

I have not nor never have said Lampard is the solution, but he is not the problem.

I don’t understand how after 4 managers this season, some people still believe this is a manager issue.

My humble opinion is that it is overwhelmingly a players issue, who should be able under any circumstances play a short pass.

It's literally the coaches job to train the movements and create the options in possesion.

We don't have the best squad on the planet but last time Lampard was here and it was apparently the players fault then they won the UCL once a top coach came in.

This time 2 years ago people were defending Steve Bruce because they thought the Newcastle squad were a bigger issue than him, 9 of the lineup that smashed Spurs 6-1 to all but secure a top 4 finish were part of that group.

There's problems that go beyond Frank, but this is the first time we've looked THIS tactically bankrupt since the last time he was here, it's not a coincidence.

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

It's literally the coaches job to train the movements and create the options in possesion.

We don't have the best squad on the planet but last time Lampard was here and it was apparently the players fault then they won the UCL once a top coach came in.

This time 2 years ago people were defending Steve Bruce because they thought the Newcastle squad were a bigger issue than him, 9 of the lineup that smashed Spurs 6-1 to all but secure a top 4 finish were part of that group.

There's problems that go beyond Frank, but this is the first time we've looked THIS tactically bankrupt since the last time he was here, it's not a coincidence.

This. 

1 minute ago, Argo said:

It's literally the coaches job to train the movements and create the options in possesion.

We don't have the best squad on the planet but last time Lampard was here and it was apparently the players fault then they won the UCL once a top coach came in.

This time 2 years ago people were defending Steve Bruce because they thought the Newcastle squad were a bigger issue than him, 9 of the lineup that smashed Spurs 6-1 to all but secure a top 4 finish were part of that group.

There's problems that go beyond Frank, but this is the first time we've looked THIS tactically bankrupt since the last time he was here, it's not a coincidence.

Ah god i agree with you @Argo as these points are spot on, but I also agree with @Carloseyebrow as his points are also valid. Good grief, i'm so conflicted.

Eddie Howe has proven the differnce that a quality coach can make with a defined structure in place. But Carlos is also right. It cannot be just down to the manager if teh same set of players have seen off three managers. I stil feel that fitness levels play a major part, but i can concede that it is no way as simple as that.

32 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Its a fair point, although i do remember Allardyce doing it with West Ham against a Championship Nottingham Forest in the FA Cup and getting his arse handed to him

i would take Allardyce at this point 

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

It's literally the coaches job to train the movements and create the options in possesion.

We don't have the best squad on the planet but last time Lampard was here and it was apparently the players fault then they won the UCL once a top coach came in.

This time 2 years ago people were defending Steve Bruce because they thought the Newcastle squad were a bigger issue than him, 9 of the lineup that smashed Spurs 6-1 to all but secure a top 4 finish were part of that group.

There's problems that go beyond Frank, but this is the first time we've looked THIS tactically bankrupt since the last time he was here, it's not a coincidence.

I’ll respectfully disagree with some of your comments, but absolutely agree with your  ‘once a top coach came in’.

We had one of the best, and f**ked ourselves.