7 hours ago, ducavis said:

Hell No! His agent Kia Joraabchian wants a €15m commission on top of his release clause. He is a West Ham level forward, and they are not crazy enough to buy another forward from Serie A after Scamacca turned out to be a bust. 

Well, firstly have you seen where we sit in the agent's fees table. Why do you think these players want to join Chelsea. The project? What project.

Also we need to think of the types of players that Maresca wants. I don't think he wants a traditional number 9. I think he wants a player with good, close, ball control  that his strong enough to hold the ball up and bring midfielders in to play. Zirkzee has a lot of these attributes and whenever I have seen him, which granted isn't that often, he has looked good. I think his release clause is only €40m so even with agent's fees this looks like it could fit our model.

A bit concerned about his injury record and if it will get worse but no doubt he is a great striker.

Edited June 30, 20242 yr by Remodez

On Zirkzee. Having seen him play plenty of games with Rsca. Please no. I know he have developed in the meanwhile as it's been some years. But, this should not be our aim. I am not a Jackson fan for the 9 position, but then I rather stay another season with him as the main man and that we look next season for a real upgrade. 

1 hour ago, Night-T said:

On Zirkzee. Having seen him play plenty of games with Rsca. Please no. I know he have developed in the meanwhile as it's been some years. But, this should not be our aim. I am not a Jackson fan for the 9 position, but then I rather stay another season with him as the main man and that we look next season for a real upgrade. 

Agree with this. Jackson frustrates us all, but hard to argue his stats from first season in PL. We all sit here and think what those numbers could, or should, have been. I think he is more than worth persisting with. 

8 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Also we need to think of the types of players that Maresca wants.

But I thought the point of the Sporting directors was that they buy players for the club and the coach just coaches the players?  We have no idea how long Maresca will be our coach. It might not be very long at all. 

Tuchel got the striker he wanted and how did that work out for us?  Aubamyangy. . .

I am sure Maresca will get some players he wants.

AND why would anyone want Isak anyways? Jackson is just as good and probably better in the long run.

15 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

But I thought the point of the Sporting directors was that they buy players for the club and the coach just coaches the players?  We have no idea how long Maresca will be our coach. It might not be very long at all. 

Tuchel got the striker he wanted and how did that work out for us?  Aubamyangy. . .

I am sure Maresca will get some players he wants.

AND why would anyone want Isak anyways? Jackson is just as good and probably better in the long run.

I agree but we seems to have suddenly moved away from big target players and more for these strikers that drop deep and get midfielders to join. I think he changed Vardy to do more of this role as well.

8 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I agree but we seems to have suddenly moved away from big target players and more for these strikers that drop deep and get midfielders to join. I think he changed Vardy to do more of this role as well.

Then we already have that player in Nkunku maybe?

5 hours ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Then we already have that player in Nkunku maybe?

Absolutely right, if he can stay fit. It's what Williams would have been ideal target instead, but his wage demands are too high and I can't see Sterling going anywhere on his money.  If Williams is out of the picture then a forward that works in Maresca's system with Nkunku taking up that wider position and drifting in could work well, I suppose 

On 30/06/2024 at 15:47, PhilH930 said:

Agree with this. Jackson frustrates us all, but hard to argue his stats from first season in PL. We all sit here and think what those numbers could, or should, have been. I think he is more than worth persisting with. 

It is easy to argue his stats from last season.....very easy.

As I have said before, Jackson rarely scored goals that "mattered", and whilst Jackson had a respectable return of 14 league goals this season - the context of those goals should also be noted.

Jacksons EPL goals

25 Aug v Luton. 3rd goal of a 3v0 win.  Effectively meaningless.

7 Oct v Burnley. 4th goal of a 4v1 win.  Effectively meaningless.

6 Nov v Spurs. Hatrick. Goals 2, 3 and 4 in a 4v1 win. Goals in the 94th and 97th min as spurs went all out attack despite having 2 players sent off.  The winning goal, with the other 2 adding to the gloss, but effectively meaningless.

12 Nov v Man City. Our 3rd goal in a 4v4 draw.   A big goal

 

16 Dec v Sheff Utd. 2nd goal in a 2v0 win.   Not a winning goal - but made the game more comfortable.

02 March v Brentford. Opening goal in a 2v2 draw.  A big goal.

11 March v Newcastle. Opening goal in 3v2 win. A big goal.

15 April v Everton. 4th goal in a 6v0 win - Effectively meaningless.

2 May v Spurs. 2nd goal in 2v0 win.  Not a winning goal - but made the game more comfortable.

5 May v West Ham. Goal 4 and 5 in 5v0 win. Effectively meaningless.
 

11 May v Forest. Winning goal in 3v2 win.   The winning goal.

 

So out of 14 goals - 7 were effectively meaningless and made no difference to the outcome, other than our Goal difference. The other 6 were meaningful, as they either opening the scoring, drew us level, or were winners.

When looked at in this context - his goal output isnt so commendable and therefore, his contribution is easy to argue against.

 

No. 

Are we really going to spend 100 million on a reasonably good striker with an injury doubt?

Can we afford to consume what little headroom we have with FFP on the above?

What if the next manager doesnt like him?

Stewart and Winstanley will be hoping Todd and Eghbali dont ask any of the above.

I am hoping Todd and Eghbali ask all of the above.

 

Edited July 1, 20242 yr by OneTommyLangley

9 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

It is easy to argue his stats from last season.....very easy.

As I have said before, Jackson rarely scored goals that "mattered", and whilst Jackson had a respectable return of 14 league goals this season - the context of those goals should also be noted.

Jacksons EPL goals

25 Aug v Luton. 3rd goal of a 3v0 win.  Effectively meaningless.

7 Oct v Burnley. 4th goal of a 4v1 win.  Effectively meaningless.

6 Nov v Spurs. Hatrick. Goals 2, 3 and 4 in a 4v1 win. Goals in the 94th and 97th min as spurs went all out attack despite having 2 players sent off.  The winning goal, with the other 2 adding to the gloss, but effectively meaningless.

12 Nov v Man City. Our 3rd goal in a 4v4 draw.   A big goal

 

16 Dec v Sheff Utd. 2nd goal in a 2v0 win.   Not a winning goal - but made the game more comfortable.

02 March v Brentford. Opening goal in a 2v2 draw.  A big goal.

11 March v Newcastle. Opening goal in 3v2 win. A big goal.

15 April v Everton. 4th goal in a 6v0 win - Effectively meaningless.

2 May v Spurs. 2nd goal in 2v0 win.  Not a winning goal - but made the game more comfortable.

5 May v West Ham. Goal 4 and 5 in 5v0 win. Effectively meaningless.
 

11 May v Forest. Winning goal in 3v2 win.   The winning goal.

 

So out of 14 goals - 7 were effectively meaningless and made no difference to the outcome, other than our Goal difference. The other 6 were meaningful, as they either opening the scoring, drew us level, or were winners.

When looked at in this context - his goal output isnt so commendable and therefore, his contribution is easy to argue against.

 

Definitely an area he can improve on with critical, big moment goals and goals against bigger opposition. Saying that, Drogba wasn’t the big game player in season one either.

Your points are fair but I think a little harsh on a player joining an injury ravaged, out of form side that had a chaotic playing style. He still put the ball in the net 14 times, the hardest thing to do in football and only bettered by one other in our team. Let’s see if he can build on that with the opportunities you note. 

Newcastle missing on CL football next season means they are obliged to sell at least one of their main assets if they want to buy other players and release extra funds. And they will probably do it in a Gallagher/Felix type of deal (PSR & FSR).

Their main assets are Isak and Guimaraes.

I think we will bid for Isak and maybe sell Madueke in a separate deal? Knowing Estevao is going to be integrated in the squad next season and there is also Neto who, IMHO, will soon take Madueke's spot on the right wing as a starter.

Not sure I want him now. He's fallen right off.

4 hours ago, petre ispirescu said:

Newcastle missing on CL football next season means they are obliged to sell at least one of their main assets if they want to buy other players and release extra funds. And they will probably do it in a Gallagher/Felix type of deal (PSR & FSR).

Their main assets are Isak and Guimaraes.

I think we will bid for Isak and maybe sell Madueke in a separate deal? Knowing Estevao is going to be integrated in the squad next season and there is also Neto who, IMHO, will soon take Madueke's spot on the right wing as a starter.

Can we stop with the “.. we may sell Madueke”, it isn’t happening. Club is in the process of offering him an improved contract. He is only 22; look around the league, there are maybe 6-7 wingers better than him and they are all older. Off my Salah, Saka, Brennan Johnson, Semenyo are the only RW with a better output than him, and they are all older. For all the noise around Neto; he is a £50m signing, 2 years older than Maudeke,  has 1 goal and 2 assists in the PL, and we are almost in Dec.

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Not sure I want him now. He's fallen right off.

He hasn’t though; he still guarantees 20 League goals. Had a slow start to the season, but has scored in the last 4 games prior to the West Ham game. 4 goals and 2 assists in 10 PL games isn’t too shabby.
He will have 3yrs left on his contract in the summer, and Newcastle will demand £100m at a minimum. Can’t see us being interested as you can’t keep both him and Jackson onboard in the same squad, it’s either or, and pls no talk of shifting Jackson to LW. 

I think Isak is a great player but he has all the same strengths and weaknesses as Nicolas Jackson. Scores a variety of chances but can miss routine ones, weirdly effective but clumsy-looking dribbling style, can range from sublime first touch to lead boots in the space of 60 seconds, can somehow be involved in all the goals and appear completely missing during a game.

The one thing that Isak has to his game that Jackson doesn't have is that Isak is a player with X-factor, which I think overall will net him 4-5 goals extra a season. £100m is a lot to pay for a player who only nets a few extra goals. 

If we want to get to the next level we need a striker that leaves Jackson as a clear bench option, which these days is a player capable of 25+ league goals a season. 

7 hours ago, ducavis said:

Can we stop with the “.. we may sell Madueke”, it isn’t happening. Club is in the process of offering him an improved contract. He is only 22; look around the league, there are maybe 6-7 wingers better than him and they are all older. Off my Salah, Saka, Brennan Johnson, Semenyo are the only RW with a better output than him, and they are all older. For all the noise around Neto; he is a £50m signing, 2 years older than Maudeke,  has 1 goal and 2 assists in the PL, and we are almost in Dec.

I just put two and two together judging by last summer's rumours when there was noise around Chelsea bidding in the region of 100M for Isak and Madueke attracting interest from Newcastle. 

I really like Madueke but he can't live off that Wolves performance for much longer. Neto's been playing at a high level for both the NT and for us lately and it seems Maresca will start to give Felix more minutes in the PL from now on.

2 hours ago, petre ispirescu said:

I just put two and two together judging by last summer's rumours when there was noise around Chelsea bidding in the region of 100M for Isak and Madueke attracting interest from Newcastle. 

I really like Madueke but he can't live off that Wolves performance for much longer. Neto's been playing at a high level for both the NT and for us lately and it seems Maresca will start to give Felix more minutes in the PL from now on.

Neto has 1 league & 2 assists, Felix has 1 goal. Those 2, even lump Sancho into the mix are not going to put up 10 contributions (G+A) each in the league by the end of the season. Madueke offers something unique which the other 3 don’t, his pace allows us to stretch the opposition. That is why he has been starting him, and he is key to his system.

10 hours ago, ducavis said:

He hasn’t though; he still guarantees 20 League goals. Had a slow start to the season, but has scored in the last 4 games prior to the West Ham game. 4 goals and 2 assists in 10 PL games isn’t too shabby.
He will have 3yrs left on his contract in the summer, and Newcastle will demand £100m at a minimum. Can’t see us being interested as you can’t keep both him and Jackson onboard in the same squad, it’s either or, and pls no talk of shifting Jackson to LW. 

 

If going by stats...then I'd take Jackson over isak any day.

 

Even the "x-factor" point in another post above...how has wacko not have the x factor!? He is the bloody x factor with some of his touches. That weird assist to palmer as he was falling over for palmer to score that lob was/isn't a typical pass.

He just knew he had to pass him the ball somehow and he did. 🤣 🤣 

On 26/11/2024 at 02:32, ducavis said:

Can we stop with the “.. we may sell Madueke”, it isn’t happening. Club is in the process of offering him an improved contract. He is only 22; look around the league, there are maybe 6-7 wingers better than him and they are all older. Off my Salah, Saka, Brennan Johnson, Semenyo are the only RW with a better output than him, and they are all older. For all the noise around Neto; he is a £50m signing, 2 years older than Maudeke,  has 1 goal and 2 assists in the PL, and we are almost in Dec.

All the more reason for them extending his contract and then being open to offers for an increased amount of money 

23 hours ago, Simplymo said:

 

If going by stats...then I'd take Jackson over isak any day.

 

Even the "x-factor" point in another post above...how has wacko not have the x factor!? He is the bloody x factor with some of his touches. That weird assist to palmer as he was falling over for palmer to score that lob was/isn't a typical pass.

He just knew he had to pass him the ball somehow and he did. 🤣 🤣 

That's why it's wise to ignore stats!!

Isak is a much better player than Jackson at this stage. He has a lot more in his locker and looks a proper striker.

But the fee would be big and I can see him ending up at Arsenal.

 

7 minutes ago, Nibs said:

That's why it's wise to ignore stats!!

Isak is a much better player than Jackson at this stage. He has a lot more in his locker and looks a proper striker.

But the fee would be big and I can see him ending up at Arsenal.

 

I disagree bud.

Isak is 2 yrs older than Jackson with much more experience under his belt. I would be surprised if he wasn't ahead of jacko in that respect. 

The fact that jacko is showing up better stats atm fills me with hope that when jacko gains as much experience/knowledge/etc...as isak, he will be way better.

Edited November 27, 20241 yr by Simplymo

£100m is a lot for a striker to come and play back up to Jackson.

On 28/11/2024 at 11:39, Ukraine Bolt said:

£100m is a lot for a striker to come and play back up to Jackson.

Very similar in profile as well, and Isak is far more injury prone