Copied from the fulham match thread, but thought to post here to gauge views and opinions....

Another disappointing result, with more questions being raised than answers provided. With every lackluster performance (players and manager) my belief in the current squad, their current condition and managers decisions dwindles even more.

Starting games:

Since the "bad moment" last year, how many times have we been saying something along the lines of " We played with a slow tempo" or "a lack of passion" or " we started slowly"? It seems that every game we are repeating the same things/mistakes over and over and over again.

I don't expect us to go out running around like mad men and diving in picking up early bookings, but likewise i want to see some notable progress or visible attempt to address the issue of our slow starts. The first half against fulham was shocking. The vast majority of the time we start games at a far to slow tempo. SORT IT OUT PLAYERS AND AVB!

2) Goal threats:

In the recent past i have always been confident to grab goals from most positions on the pitch. We had Ballack, Lamps, Essien who all chipped in from the middle, out wide we had players like Duff, Robben, Jesper, Joey, Flo Mo all capable of grabbing goals and then didz, crespo, sheva and even mutu who all looked dangerous up top.

At the moment Torres is blunt, Didz and lamps and shadows of their former selves. Malouda who cannot be relied upon. Ramires who is lively but inconsistent in front of goal. The only players who can be relied upon at the moment are mata and Danny....and when they have an off day as they did yesterday, we look very very very short of goal threats and creative ideas.

Utd played Berbatov yesterday, a player who hasnt been near their 1st team for months yet bagged a hatrick. We had our 50 mill hit man playing out at wide right.

Clean sheets:

We look exposed at the back with whichever players are selected or whatever system we play (deep or high line). We have tried Ivan at RB with Luiz, Alex or JT in the middle and we leak goals. we play bossy at RB with Ivan or Luiz alongside JT and we leak goals. Ashley plays with a permanent chip on his shoulder and scowl on his face forever mouthing off to the ref. Cech is getting beaten with regularity and looks sheepish at times.

Time and again we are seeing team (individual and collective) errors and multiple lapses in concentration at the back which when coupled with problems higher up the pitch (Mikels positioning, Lamps lack of pace in getting back, Danny and Mata's tendency to ditch their defensive responsibilities) is meaning we are more shaky at the back than at any time in our recent past.

In summary.

The current incarnation of Chelsea have many of the bad habits of all our recent teams combined, but without any of the redeeming features. We have Mourinhos "boring" or "slow" play but without the defensive solidity or machine like ability to grind out results, we have Scolari's defensive weaknesses but without the flowing goals, and we have Carlo's slow starts and inability to climb out of the "bad moment". All of this coupled to an ageing team and what appears to be a lack of passion is a recipe for disaster.

We have a new manager who is trying to change the the way we play, this is a season of transition he needs to feel players out, Rome wasn't built in a day and imo is doing a good job. We'll see new faces in the summer and a few in jan i would think and a few faces will be shown the door esp as we have alot of payers out of contract in the summer. Same with the players they are getting used to a new manager who is changing the way they play so it will take a while for everyone to click but it is coming we are lookng better and better, As for Torres he is a good player who needs a run of games to build up confidence the odd 10-15 mins is no good esp when he has malouda and kalou to work with instead of mata and sturridge..

Inability to defend leads or build on them would be my biggest concern.

When you go 1 up v the Wigans and Fulhams of this world you have to either shut up shop or preferably go for the kill and score a 2nd or 3rd.

Allowing inferior teams to get back in games when you take the lead is unforgiveable.

Its apparent we cant keep a clean sheet so we need to push on for more goals. Our best form of attack will be defence.

I meant best form of defence is attack.

We simply lack the class we had, we have players who can do the job but not world beaters for sure.Just ask yourself how many top world players we had in the squad yesterday.We look like liverpool 2009, you cant win the league with 2 top players and 9 mediocre.

Edited December 27, 201113 yr by Rami

Sure we've been crap at times, but think about it, AVB has taken a number of players out of their comfort zone, he's trying to rebuild a job Carlo should have started when he stepped over the threshold but never did. Our squad needs rebalancing a job that will take at least two, if not three transfer windows so lets get behind the manager and put a stop to this constant analyzing. KTBFFH

How do you think Citeh fans feel drawing 0-0 to WBA?

How do you think Citeh fans feel drawing 0-0 to WBA?

Not particularly bothered since up till then they've mostly been steamrollering teams and are still top of the table anyway.

Di Matteo and Holland have to go and AVB needs an astute coach.

Steve Clarke or the return of Ray Wilkins.

Lets not beat around the bush here, we have a novice coaching set up

and clear mistakes are happening.

From not knowing when to play the high line against the styles of certain teams

we have gone to being out foxed by Wigan and Fulham when Man Utd dicked

the pair of them in between to the tune of 5 zip.

Yesterday was the worst tactics I have seen in over 40 years of watching Chelsea.

Fulham had one up front and despite not playing three at the back applied a similar

set up to Wigan. In both games we surrended a lead, when weaker teams go a goal

behind when applying a game plan it is totally insane to do it two weeks running.

Fulham just rolled the ball to Murphy fior 90 minutes, there was no pressure high

up the pitch, we never once forced them into mistakes or squeezed the middle of

the park.

It was schoolboy stuff, plain and utter stupidity.

The answer was to go 4-3-1-2

Throw Drogba and Torres against their back two with Mata in behind, thus Murphy

and co. wouldn't have had the chance to pass it round at the back for fun.

We had Torres on the right instead of Sturridge late on, utter madness.

We are so easy to read and teams work us out, the 4-3-3 under Carlo was picked off

by lesser teams and it is happening under AVB.

I still rate AVB and want him to be given time but he needs real experience alongside

him.

I see United off their feet against Basel, they looked slow and off the pace.

Yet they react, they play a style of football that teams in the premiership cannot

contain. Nani, Valencia and Young have pace, they mix up their formations,

whilst we batter on with 4-3-3 or push Mata behind a front three!

Teams did it against us under Jose, is it a surprise we had Robben and Duff and

a certain Joe Cole to get us out of trouble?

Malouda, Kalou have to go, we need Hazard and Neymar then AVB can maybe

get away with the way he is trying to play.

Of course that is highly unlikely, so we have to go back to basics.

We have great kids but has AVB time on his side, I really hope so.

The kid Piazon is something special by the way.

We are going to struggle to get 4th at this rate.

Simply not good enough; the tactics, substitutions and effort have been completely sh*t against the lesser sides.

It's AVB's fault.

There's no way we should be throwing all these points away. We have a squad past it's best, but it's still more than good enough to beat these teams.

There's no excuse

Kenyon's getting off very lightly in this thread.

Fulham just got hammered a few days ago by United 5-0, so why on earth did we play with a defensive midfield in the team yesterday, same as Wigan last week, why play a DM? Fair enough if we're winning 2/3-0 and throw on a DM for the last 15 mins or so.

Negative tactics breed negative results.

Listening to the game on 5 live commentator Mark bright,not the best player ,but played with some top players,and to be fair knows his footie,said from the off we didn't need a DM,need to press from the front,not play fwd,back,sideways,back and oh so slow,he rates Torres highly,but said we don't pass the ball correctly,early enough or often enough maybe a 3,1,4,2,but like AVB at the moment i don't have the answer.

Sure we've been crap at times, but think about it, AVB has taken a number of players out of their comfort zone, he's trying to rebuild a job Carlo should have started when he stepped over the threshold but never did.

I think this is a point not mentioned often enough.

I like Carlo and wish he'd stayed. However, whether it was his fault or not, Chelsea were haphazard and uncommitted when it came to buying players.

Carlo never seemed interested in a comprehensive re-making of a squad that was obviously getting old and slow.

My thoughts,

1.We don't start our matches in good tempo. We are too lethargic at times and boring to watch. How many needless backpasses and side passes have we done in the matches we looked slack.

2. Back pass and pass to GK should be a last option, not a common game plan. We allow the opposition players to easily group together and then try to start our attack. English league demands pacy forward movement these days or atleast quick passing in the field to unsettle opponents.

3. Acole and Bosingwa - Our wing backs are not good enough this season. I 've said that previously. If our wing backs cannot do a proper cross , there is no need for them to get forward. Occassional bursts is fine but getting forward and then again passing the ball to the central midfield is not an option. I still can't understand why AVB doesn't like to give Bertrand a few more matches.

4.Every player wants to score. Sadly this is most frustrating because we don't do a decisive pass in the final third and don't even look for another player in a good position most times. Thats when you think we need out and out creative players who relish setting up goals. Josh , anyone ?

We still have a fantastic squad. Fast Tempo and quick passing is the way to go. How can the coaching team miss this point is for anyone's guess !

Sure we've been crap at times, but think about it, AVB has taken a number of players out of their comfort zone, he's trying to rebuild a job Carlo should have started when he stepped over the threshold but never did. Our squad needs rebalancing a job that will take at least two, if not three transfer windows so lets get behind the manager and put a stop to this constant analyzing. KTBFFH

How do you think Citeh fans feel drawing 0-0 to WBA?

This, this and oh so much this.

No width. We are the only team in the league without proper wingers I believe. Football is a simple game, you stretch the defence wide, put an early ball into the box, make the defeners deal with it, or the big striker head the ball into the net. As United shown recently, keep it simple and direct, goals come in buckets. Sign a couple of quick wingers who likes to hug around the line and can cross a ball, and we may find our strikers aren't that bad after all.

Lack of aggression and energy in the midfield. Who is the scary guy in our midfield these days? We used to have Essien, Ballack etc who can win the physical battles, now we got nothing in that area. Even Arsenal got Song, who bullied us last time around.

No Creativity. We got Mata, and possibly a kid on the bench, after that we are about as creative as plain paper. Play with a lone striker, and expect him to drop deep to link up play just shows our midfield and wide players aren't doing what they are get paid for.

The myth of transition. I hate this word, everytime we lose, this is our excuse. Transition or not, you don't just suddenly forget how to tackle, not marking your man in set pieces, not track back. What comes down to in my opioion, it's poor attitude and form from the players and the manager. I remember when AVB took over, he talked about not winning a trophy would be a failure. I hope he remembers his own words and not hiding behind the curtain of transition.

Fulham just got hammered a few days ago by United 5-0, so why on earth did we play with a defensive midfield in the team yesterday, same as Wigan last week, why play a DM? Fair enough if we're winning 2/3-0 and throw on a DM for the last 15 mins or so.

Negative tactics breed negative results.

That seems to be the main difference between us and the top teams (I refuse to include Spuds......yet !!) United play Wigan and win 5-0, we play them and draw 1-1, Utd play Fulham and win (at their place) 5-0, we draw at home 1-1. City score (with the exception of WBA) goals for fun and have a squad at least TWICE as strong as ours. Fergie and Mancini appear to instill passion and discipline, we have neither. Alas, we have simply rested on our laurels !!!

Fergie has a stronger squad because he could see the writing on the wall with the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand etc. He freshened it up by bringing in youth & pace and actually plays his kids (bet Josh would LOVE to be at United) his adage is if you are good enough you are old enough (somebody tell AVB).

The Club have been derelict in their duty. The rebuilding should have been forced on Carlo last season. Until the Club realises that for a couple of seasons we will win NOTHING and have to be content with that (listen Roman) we will make no progress. We must give AVB time to rebuild, three years minimum and then if we are still looking the way we do now and winning nothing, he will have to go.

I do not think we should be offering Drogba or Lamps extensions to their contracts. They must go and make way for younger more passionate and talented players. Malouda, Kalou, Ferreira, Mikel and Turnbull must all go too, none of them are good enough at the top level as has been demonstrated this season.

After watching Spuds last night - I am VERY fed up !!!

We've got too many over the hill players, simple as that......

Look at the managers some of our players have let down....

The only thing that is consistent is our inconsistency

That seems to be the main difference between us and the top teams (I refuse to include Spuds......yet !!) United play Wigan and win 5-0, we play them and draw 1-1, Utd play Fulham and win (at their place) 5-0, we draw at home 1-1. City score (with the exception of WBA) goals for fun and have a squad at least TWICE as strong as ours. Fergie and Mancini appear to instill passion and discipline, we have neither. Alas, we have simply rested on our laurels !!!

Fergie has a stronger squad because he could see the writing on the wall with the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand etc. He freshened it up by bringing in youth & pace and actually plays his kids (bet Josh would LOVE to be at United) his adage is if you are good enough you are old enough (somebody tell AVB).

The Club have been derelict in their duty. The rebuilding should have been forced on Carlo last season. Until the Club realises that for a couple of seasons we will win NOTHING and have to be content with that (listen Roman) we will make no progress. We must give AVB time to rebuild, three years minimum and then if we are still looking the way we do now and winning nothing, he will have to go.

I do not think we should be offering Drogba or Lamps extensions to their contracts. They must go and make way for younger more passionate and talented players. Malouda, Kalou, Ferreira, Mikel and Turnbull must all go too, none of them are good enough at the top level as has been demonstrated this season.

After watching Spuds last night - I am VERY fed up !!!

I agree regarding playing the kids/Josh but no CFC manager under Roman has given chances to the kids, that should tell you something. Wouldnt blame AVB tbh.

I really doubt Roman is in the way of the youngerster not playing, hes spent a fortune on developing for the future

Not saying he is but we change manager every other year, perhaps managers dont want to stake their job security on unproven youngsters. What else would explain carlo and avbs reluctance to play kids?

Edited December 28, 201113 yr by BumsteadCFC

I think you hit the nail on the head, BumsteadCFC.

I echo most if not all of the sentiments above.

Let's be honest the defending of the team took a nosedive when Clarkey bogged off to the Spammers and has never been that brilliant since, there have been some good runs and you can quote opta and say the goals conceded are up there with as few as the other top clubs - but when the goals are 'last minute' equalizers as we have seen a lot these last 2 1/2 seasons they are deal busters at winning titles.

No player out there seems to be able to tackle or break up plays in the middle of the park, Makele was genius at it, the club let go Parker & Diarra and now all we have is Romeu who albeit a promising talent is brand new to the league. Essien who knows if he will ever be 100 % again ?

What happened to Claudio's 2 top internationals for every position - the wage bill suggests that should be the case, but realistically it is no longer.

The mad part about it is that RA has spent so so much loot on the club, not as much as City admittedly, but up there close, and for that amount of investment the current squad/ team should be able to compete with City & United. But after going through managers like nobody's business, sacking coaches, buying marquee flop strikers etc. the team has suffered and is now playing second fiddle to Spurs FFS !

I echo most if not all of the sentiments above.

Let's be honest the defending of the team took a nosedive when Clarkey bogged off to the Spammers and has never been that brilliant since, there have been some good runs and you can quote opta and say the goals conceded are up there with as few as the other top clubs - but when the goals are 'last minute' equalizers as we have seen a lot these last 2 1/2 seasons they are deal busters at winning titles.

No player out there seems to be able to tackle or break up plays in the middle of the park, Makele was genius at it, the club let go Parker & Diarra and now all we have is Romeu who albeit a promising talent is brand new to the league. Essien who knows if he will ever be 100 % again ?

What happened to Claudio's 2 top internationals for every position - the wage bill suggests that should be the case, but realistically it is no longer.

The mad part about it is that RA has spent so so much loot on the club, not as much as City admittedly, but up there close, and for that amount of investment the current squad/ team should be able to compete with City & United. But after going through managers like nobody's business, sacking coaches, buying marquee flop strikers etc. the team has suffered and is now playing second fiddle to Spurs FFS !

Cant fault this view. Bang on.