Agree fair play to him.

I am certainly not his number 1 fan and he certainly has not been scoring when it counts apart from in the Europa Cup.

Also the chances he has missed is alarming considering our offensive line up, however the same can be said of Ba and Sturridge before him.

I am happy for him to stay as long as we buy a decent goal scorer he could be a decent squad player but no way is he our 50m main stricker.

Hardly surprising he wants to stay. where else would he get the the silly wages we pay him? We need to offload him more for FFP, will allow us to buy someone who hasnt lost most of their talent.

Edited April 6, 201313 yr by Zola

He may have 18 goals overall but he's only scored 7(?) in the PL this season (and barely any in the Champions League) and considering he was our only striker starting each and every game for a long period of time, that is simply unacceptable for me. Even if he ends up scoring ten more goals between now and the end of this season, we just have to let him go for the club's sake and for his own sake as well. We've given him plenty of chances to redeem himself but it's been obvious for a long time now that it just isn't going to work out. It's time to move on.

 

He scored 3 in 5 starts, which is fair going by anyones standard, we can be critical of the oppostion however they are Champions League teams, so they can't be that bad.

 

Now I'm not saying he should stay for 1 minute, but lets at least get it right if we're going to attempt to have a pop.

I don't dislike Torres at all, but sometimes rather than trying to fight he sulks but recently he seems to be getting that fight back. I always used to think he's not the player he was, he's lost a yard etc but he really hasn't he can turn it on at times and he looks as quick as ever. I just don't know why he's had such a hard time here if he's still got those attributes. It really is puzzling, his interview I just read on Sky Sports shows you how much he wants it to work. I hope he can turn it on in these remaining games and help us clinch top 4 and a cup.

Just read the column in the sun, he has to go in the summer, he has been given enough time, we cant afford to go into next season with him.

I wouldn't mind going into next season with ba, torres and lukaku as our 3 strikers. I guess roman just needs to decide if it is worth paying what he is paying torres just for a squad player.

Edited April 6, 201313 yr by Bluehatter

More on our misunderstood misfiring # 9

Fernando Torres took his tally to 18 goals for the season after netting a brace against Rubin Kazan in Chelsea’s 3-1 Europa League victory on Thursday night.

For a player criticised throughout the season, statistics show he hasn't been that bad. Has the criticism been undeserved?

Fair enough at times he looks a shadow of his former self, but strikers are there to score goals and if you look at the statistics then he has somehow managed to score more goals than Wayne Rooney, Sergio Aguero, Carlos Tevez, Papiss Cisse and Emmanuel Adebayor this season.

If you also consider the fact that Torres has often been overlooked for games this season, especially since the arrival of Demba Ba from Newcastle in January, then his record is quite good.

Some critics say he hasn't been the same player as before; yet, unbelievably, the statistics are once again in his favour.

His seven-year stint at Atletico Madrid was considered a success and earned him a move to Liverpool, but he is now just three goals short from equalling the most goals he ever scored in a single season with Atletico.

Also, barring his debut season at Liverpool in 2007/08, if Torres can score five more goals this season to take his tally to 23, then he will have scored more than in any of the other three full seasons he spent at Liverpool.

It’s worth noting that he has played 52 times this season – the most he has ever played in a campaign - but it still amounts to a goal ratio of 1 in every 2.8 games – not bad considering a lot of these were substitute appearances.

 

Comparing him to Rooney, Aguero, Tevez, etc is a bit silly but then again that's what happens what you focus solely on stats. 

 

Rooney has played in midfield in pretty much all his appearances for United this season, he's played as a striker once and even then he still has more league goals than Torres. Aguero and Tevez don't have Oscar, Mata and Hazard behind them. If they want to score they have to create the chances for themselves more often than not. Newcastle on the whole have underperformed and Cisse has only recently started leading the line. As for Adebayor, well that's hardly the standard of striker I would use as any sort of benchmark.

 

That said I do think he's been pretty decent recently and hope it continues but yeah, any comparisons with the likes of Tevez, etc are way off mark. 

Fernando Torres: I'll stay at Chelsea and prove critics wrong

 

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8620633/

Fernando Torres: I'll stay at Chelsea and prove critics wrong

 

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8620633/

I certainly hope not.

Comparing him to Rooney, Aguero, Tevez, etc is a bit silly but then again that's what happens what you focus solely on stats. 

 

Rooney has played in midfield in pretty much all his appearances for United this season, he's played as a striker once and even then he still has more league goals than Torres. Aguero and Tevez don't have Oscar, Mata and Hazard behind them. If they want to score they have to create the chances for themselves more often than not. Newcastle on the whole have underperformed and Cisse has only recently started leading the line. As for Adebayor, well that's hardly the standard of striker I would use as any sort of benchmark.

 

That said I do think he's been pretty decent recently and hope it continues but yeah, any comparisons with the likes of Tevez, etc are way off mark. 

 

I don't really get that part in bold- Tevez & Aguero play in a team who have scored roughly the same amount of goals in the league as us this season (55 compared to our 59) and are hardly a team that don't create chances for their strikers with players like Toure, Nasri & Silva in support.

 

I do generally agree though but I would say the main reason why Torres stats sound better than a few of the players listed is due to the fact he has played more games and his goals have mostly come against lesser teams in cup competitions. His league contribution of 7 goals is a telling stat and one that I doubt would compare too well against most of the names mentioned especially if we calculated his goal/minutes ratio.

 

If he ends the season with 20 goals in all competitions it wouldn't sound too bad and would probably be his best season but untill he proves over a sustained period of time that he can score week in/week out against all opposition, Premiership included, then he still isn't cutting the mustard if we are being honest , regardless of the picture the stats may be able to paint.

Edited April 6, 201313 yr by mclovin83

Good on Torres actually. IF he sticks to his word and puts in the effort levels like he has recently then I'd love to keep him on for longer.

His problem was that he'd simply refuse to play at times, sulk around, not run for the ball or into the right positions and he'd certainly never look like he cared about the shirt. These are the things he has to change, and if he does, the goal scoring returns with it.

There's a reason Frank has scored so many, he has drive and determination and if Torres can display this too it'll start to come off for him.

A very open and honest interview, well done Nando.

honest interview, no matter whats happened i cant hate the guy! In terms of those stats you'd fancy him to get at least 20 from now until the end of the season. But in 50 odd games i think we were all hoping he could have gotten 25-30 and help us out in those games like Shakhtar away where a draw would of got us through, winning the world club cup etc...

 

but never the less I wouldnt mind if he stayed next season with Lukaku coming back, but on those wages?!

The funny thing is that Torres has been hopeless despite having two of the best creating attacking midfielders in the league. He is outscored by 26 other players in the League despite probably playing more matches and minutes than most of those players half of which aren't even strikers. 

3 in 6 in the Champions League is not a bad statistic either except for the fact that one of those goals was a fluke and the other two came in a 6-1 victory against possibly one of the weakest teams in the competition. 

 

Like I said during the Winter Transfer window, I expect Torres to cost us the Europa League, so I'm pleased with how he has performed thus far - well beyond my low expectations. Hopefully he continues to do well so we are able to make someone take him in the Summer, his wages have to be eliminated and it seems it would be difficult to convince him to go to Ahnzi or some other similar club in Siberia. 

I don't really get that part in bold- Tevez & Aguero play in a team who have scored roughly the same amount of goals in the league as us this season (55 compared to our 59) and are hardly a team that don't create chances for their strikers with players like Toure, Nasri & Silva in support.

 

I do generally agree though but I would say the main reason why Torres stats sound better than a few of the players listed is due to the fact he has played more games and his goals have mostly come against lesser teams in cup competitions. His league contribution of 7 goals is a telling stat and one that I doubt would compare too well against most of the names mentioned especially if we calculated his goal/minutes ratio.

 

If he ends the season with 20 goals in all competitions it wouldn't sound too bad and would probably be his best season but untill he proves over a sustained period of time that he can score week in/week out against all opposition, Premiership included, then he still isn't cutting the mustard if we are being honest , regardless of the picture the stats may be able to paint.

Toure has 4 assists, Nasri has 4 as well and Silva has 7. Hardly much to write home about and is pretty poor for their standards  I'm not saying they don't score, what I'm saying is that they both spend more time creating chances as opposed to getting them (In fact Tevez has 7 assists as well, which makes him and Silva tied at 1st place on their assists table) and it's been that way for the majority of the season due to their creative trio in Toure, Silva and Nasri having poor seasons. You can't make the same argument for Torres who has had pretty much everything handed to him on a plate, so people trying to compare him to Aguero who proved last season that if you provide he will score is a bit silly. 

Toure has 4 assists, Nasri has 4 as well and Silva has 7. Hardly much to write home about and is pretty poor for their standards  I'm not saying they don't score, what I'm saying is that they both spend more time creating chances as opposed to getting them (In fact Tevez has 7 assists as well, which makes him and Silva tied at 1st place on their assists table) and it's been that way for the majority of the season due to their creative trio in Toure, Silva and Nasri having poor seasons. You can't make the same argument for Torres who has had pretty much everything handed to him on a plate, so people trying to compare him to Aguero who proved last season that if you provide he will score is a bit silly. 

 

IIRC Torres has plenty of assists.

Looking at my chart, althought it hasn't been updated in a while, Torres has 10 assists this season.

all this tells me is how much better off we would be with a good striker

IIRC Torres has plenty of assists.

 

Yes but that's not because he's not getting the chances, it's because he's been shirking his responsibilities as a striker and has spent most of the season hiding by ending up on the wing, or anywhere else that isn't in the box for that matter, and ultimately making the final pass which leads to a chance when it should be the other way around. It's not the same situation as Aguero or Tevez.

Looking at my chart, althought it hasn't been updated in a while, Torres has 10 assists this season.

How many in the league?

Toure has 4 assists, Nasri has 4 as well and Silva has 7. Hardly much to write home about and is pretty poor for their standards  I'm not saying they don't score, what I'm saying is that they both spend more time creating chances as opposed to getting them (In fact Tevez has 7 assists as well, which makes him and Silva tied at 1st place on their assists table) and it's been that way for the majority of the season due to their creative trio in Toure, Silva and Nasri having poor seasons. You can't make the same argument for Torres who has had pretty much everything handed to him on a plate, so people trying to compare him to Aguero who proved last season that if you provide he will score is a bit silly. 

 

I am not suggesting that Toure, Nasri and Silva as individuals have had seasons on a par with Mata, Hazard and Oscar in terms of assists but, as a team, City create plenty of chance and score plenty of goals so I just don't really see a reason why Tevez and Aguero would suffer as strikers- they are playing in a good team who  create plenty.

 

In terms of assists you say Tevez has 7 but as Torres has anything from 5-10 depending on the souce I wouldn't really say there is much of a point to be had there, especially as you go onto say that Torres spends most of his time hiding on the wing etc- surely that contradicts your point?

 

I genarally agree with the majority of your original post though, I just see the reasons as to why Torres stats are misleading slightly differently I guess.

He has 4 assists in the League according to whoscored, Tevez has 7 just in the League 

Edited April 6, 201313 yr by Las7

Apart from the usual suspects would anyone not feel confident having ba,lukaku and torres as our 3 strikers next year? If mourinho was manager and we had them 3 I would be feeling pretty confident about our chances. If torres wasn't performing then mourinho wouldn't play him and we would still have lukaku and ba!

I am not suggesting that Toure, Nasri and Silva as individuals have had seasons on a par with Mata, Hazard and Oscar in terms of assists but, as a team, City create plenty of chance and score plenty of goals so I just don't really see a reason why Tevez and Aguero would suffer as strikers- they are playing in a good team who  create plenty.

 

In terms of assists you say Tevez has 7 but as Torres has anything from 5-10 depending on the souce I wouldn't really say there is much of a point to be had there, especially as you go onto say that Torres spends most of his time hiding on the wing etc- surely that contradicts your point?

 

I genarally agree with the majority of your original post though, I just see the reasons as to why Torres stats are misleading slightly differently I guess.

Wasn't suggesting you were, my only point was that their main creative force aren't having a good season and as a result their strikers have suffered. I think you're overrating just how much the team are creating at City to be honest, without their trio playing well they create about as much as we do when Mata and Hazard aren't playing. Only difference between us and them is that their defence is solid.

 

Not sure how I contradicted myself there, I was suggesting that Torres does that because he's gotten dishearten at all the chances he's missed and has been putting himself in positions he shouldn't really be in because he was scared of missing any more, Tevez and Aguero do that because they have to otherwise they wouldn't get many chances in that current team. Completely different scenario and not at all comparable like the person I originally quoted mentioned. 

 

I agree with the reasons you mentioned as well, it's just that it's a pretty obvious point and it had already been touched on by others so I felt no need to expand on it any further. 

Edited April 6, 201313 yr by Remodez

Comparing him to Rooney, Aguero, Tevez, etc is a bit silly but then again that's what happens what you focus solely on stats. 

 

Rooney has played in midfield in pretty much all his appearances for United this season, he's played as a striker once and even then he still has more league goals than Torres. Aguero and Tevez don't have Oscar, Mata and Hazard behind them. If they want to score they have to create the chances for themselves more often than not. Newcastle on the whole have underperformed and Cisse has only recently started leading the line. As for Adebayor, well that's hardly the standard of striker I would use as any sort of benchmark.

 

That said I do think he's been pretty decent recently and hope it continues but yeah, any comparisons with the likes of Tevez, etc are way off mark. 

 

Behind the striker, that's hardly playing in midfield.

Wasn't suggesting you were, my only point was that their main creative force aren't having a good season and as a result their strikers have suffered. I think you're overrating just how much the team are creating at City to be honest, without their trio playing well they create about as much as we do when Mata and Hazard aren't playing. Only difference between us and them is that their defence is solid.

 

Not sure how I contradicted myself there, I was suggesting that Torres does that because he's gotten dishearten at all the chances he's missed and has been putting himself in positions he shouldn't really be in because he was scared of missing any more, Tevez and Aguero do that because they have to otherwise they wouldn't get many chances in that current team. Completely different scenario and not at all comparable like the person I originally quoted mentioned. 

 

I agree with the reasons you mentioned as well, it's just that it's a pretty obvious point and it had already been touched on by others so I felt no need to expand on it any further. 

 

Their main creative force may not have been having a great season (by their own reletively high standards I would add) but as a team they have scored only 4 less goals than us this season and I don't personally see any reason to make excuses for their strikers who are playing in a team that is second in the league and one of the highest scorers in the league. The way you refer to Tevez and Aguero 'having to create chances for themselves otherwise they wouldn't get any' makes it sound like they are strikers playing in a far inferior team to us who are constantly outplayed in midfield with the strikers totally isolated upfront hardly getting a touch of the ball- that obviously isn't the case and from the games I have seen I wouldn't say they generally struggle to create. The proof is in the pudding with the amount of goals they have scored ths season as a team.

 

The reason I thought you contradicted yourself a bit is because you implied that the reason that Tevez & Aguero may have suffered from a goal scoring point of view is that they weren't spending enough time in the box putting chances away as they were forced out of position to create them.  You then went onto say that the reason that Torres has a similar number of assists as them is that he was also out of position (through choice, to avoid missing a chance) so if they are both  spending time in the wrong place (rightly or wrongly) then surely it would create a level playing field when reviewing their goal contribution?

Edited April 6, 201313 yr by mclovin83

Behind the striker, that's hardly playing in midfield.

Not the way he plays it, he spends more time in midfield than your average attacking mid. But yes, his goals have come from that area.

 

Their main creative force may not have been having a great season (by their own reletively high standards I would add) but as a team they have scored only 4 less goals than us this season and I don't personally see any reason to make excuses for their strikers who are playing in a team that is second in the league and one of the highest scorers in the league. The way you refer to Tevez and Aguero 'having to create chances for themselves otherwise they wouldn't get any' makes it sound like they are strikers playing in a far inferior team to us who are constantly outplayed in midfield with the strikers totally isolated upfront hardly getting a touch of the ball- that obviously isn't the case and from the games I have seen I wouldn't say they generally struggle to create. The proof is in the pudding with the amount of goals they have scored ths season as a team.

 

The reason I thought you contradicted yourself a bit is because you implied that the reason that Tevez & Aguero may have suffered from a goal scoring point of view is that they weren't spending enough time in the box putting chances away as they were forced out of position to create them.  You then went onto say that the reason that Torres has a similar number of assists as them is that he was also out of position (through choice, to avoid missing a chance) so if they are both  spending time in the wrong place (rightly or wrongly) then surely it would create a level playing field when reviewing their goal contribution?

I refer to them that way only in comparison to Torres, not suggesting that they play in an inferior team only that they have inferior creators which I don't think is too far from the truth.

 

If you were focusing solely on stats then yes, you could use it to review their goal contribution. However like I made clear from the beginning, by me dimishing the use of stats, I was referring to actual performances and, to me at least, there's no comparison between them.