...and it has been all season.

Ever since the '3 amigos' have been split up we have lost a lot of creativity. Mata is so direct, so creative, and has always been at the heart of the attack for us. I just don't get why he's been left out this long.

Jose (in my opinion) is doing a bit of a tinkerman at the minute, I think he is trying to change things too fast (and perhaps, even just for the sake of changing something). We look like a bunch of strangers knocking the ball around, not wanting to take responsibility.

Obviously he has nothing to prove to anyone regarding his credentials, but I think we are making a mistake by chopping and changing so much, and we're making an even bigger mistake by isolating Mata continuously. When Mata was subbed on last Saturday it then looked like we finally had some attacking ideas and we looked certain to score. Without him we simply didn't. If he'd been on 15-20 minutes earlier (along with Mikel to steady the ship), I am certain we would have won the game as we were peppering their end with those two on.

Every man and his dog thinks that shutting out Mata has been a huge mistake that's beginning to look like its backfiring.

Oscar is a good player and all, but he hasn't really done anything spectacular in the last 3 or 4 games....nothing of real note that I can think of. He is probably tired and needs a rest.

Mata gives us something else, he is a much more direct and possibly an even more intelligent player who can spearhead attacks. It is his turn for a crack.

Edited November 12, 201312 yr by Zola

The catalyst is that Oscar needs to drop back into midfield, that would give Mata the number 10 role that he excels in.

 

It pains me to say this but it's time to thank Lampard for the memories and start to move him out of the team, I don't want any memory of Frank tarnished by him playing on for to long.

 

a midfield five of

 

Rambo

Oscar

 

Mata

Hazard

Willian/Schurrle

 

Would make us formidable in my opinion.

Oscar is very good in the tackle. I would love to see him play there but it's not going to happen.

Agreed 100%

Oscar has a very good tackle.

Sorry,couldn't resist.

...and it has been all season.

Ever since the '3 amigos' have been split up we have lost a lot of creativity. Mata is so direct, so creative, and has always been at the heart of the attack for us. I just don't get why he's been left out this long.

Jose (in my opinion) is doing a bit of a tinkerman at the minute, I think he is trying to change things too fast (and perhaps, even just for the sake of changing something). We look like a bunch of strangers knocking the ball around, not wanting to take responsibility.

Obviously he has nothing to prove to anyone regarding his credentials, but I think we are making a mistake by chopping and changing so much, and we're making an even bigger mistake by isolating Mata continuously. When Mata was subbed on last Saturday it then looked like we finally had some attacking ideas and we looked certain to score. Without him we simply didn't. If he'd been on 15-20 minutes earlier (along with Mikel to steady the ship), I am certain we would have won the game as we were peppering their end with those two on.

Every man and his dog thinks that shutting out Mata has been a huge mistake that's beginning to look like its backfiring.

Oscar is a good player and all, but he hasn't really done anything spectacular in the last 3 or 4 games....nothing of real note that I can think of. He is probably tired and needs a rest.

Mata gives us something else, he is a much more direct and possibly an even more intelligent player who can spearhead attacks. It is his turn for a crack.

Tired, bloody tired, he is a professional player not some park wannabee, he has played just a handful of games, there is plenty of time to be tired in the close season, why are we making excuses for these overpaid prima donnas? he is not cutting it like I believe Mata could do, plain simple truth.

personally don't think Oscar is consistent enough to be our 10 (Mata in his 1st year was the same; after 65mins he was knack erred) but don't see Jose switching to Mata after his public declaration on who is 10 is. The crazy thing is stats support the argument that Oscar is better in Europe & Mata is more effective in the PL.

Sidenote: The whole tracking back issue does my head in; I can't remember Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Baggio ever doing that and present sides that excite fans; Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona of old and current Southampton side use a high pressing game. They press you efficiently all over the pitch and dominate the midfield, two wingers pressing the full back and the 9 the centre backs, when they are without the ball. With the ball; the full backs overlap consistently, attacking space and creating overloads. I might be wrong but When you do that effectively and as a pack, your wingers don't end up as wingbacks or your 10 in defence. Won't this be a more effective route to go, solve the issue of our slow transition and get the most out of our creative players?

Tired, bloody tired, he is a professional player not some park wannabee, he has played just a handful of games, there is plenty of time to be tired in the close season, why are we making excuses for these overpaid prima donnas? he is not cutting it like I believe Mata could do, plain simple truth.

I like your style, but he is human mate. He has played pretty much every single game, sometimes 2 or 3 times in a week, and they train virtually every day. Tiredness (both mentally and physically) is inevitable, especially when you're involved in every game.

Just because they are millionaires and doing the best job in the world doesn't exclude them from human traits, as annoying as it is!

I empathise with you though - If I was given a 20th of their pay I'd run until I collapsed.

Edited November 12, 201312 yr by Zola

I like your style, but he is human mate. He has played pretty much every single game, sometimes 2 or 3 times in a week, and they train virtually every day. Tiredness (both mentally and physically) is inevitable, especially when you're involved in every game.

Just because they are millionaires and doing the best job in the world doesn't exclude them from human traits, as annoying as it is!

I empathise with you though - If I was given a 20th of their pay I'd run until I collapsed.

 

So for about 5 minutes then

God loves a trier!

I could do 90 minutes, although my impact would be rather negligible at thay level!!! :D

ducavis I agree with you in theory. Winning the ball back high up the pitch is ideally the best approach, but I'm not sure Jose has the confidence in the squad to do that. 

 

I personally don't believe in carrying passengers in defence though. You work hard off the ball to win it back. Too often Mata is half-hearted in his approach. Us playing him through the middle rather than on the wings was as much to do with him being a liability when tracking a full back. Remember when AVB first came and we played 4-3-3? Other teams regularly scored down Ash's side because Mata refused to track fullbacks. Even when playing through the middle his pressing can be non-existent. He will get up close but then gets breezed past by attackers and makes no effort then to get back goal side.

 

I don't think Jose will give in until such time as Mata makes an effort. He certainly didn't ever let up on Joe Cole. 

 

Make no mistake I think with the ball he is the best player we have, but he also has to make an effort to fit in to the way Jose wants to play. There are no passengers. I think De Bruyne is finding out the same thing. He ideally is well placed to replace Frank in the pivot if need be, but he didn't want to work for it, so he won't be the guy.

 

Btw I like the idea of Oscar in the pivot in the long run, but short term we would suffer from the same thing as Lampard and Ramires where both players want to go forward and no one wants to stay back and cover the runs of Cole and Ivanovic.

ducavis I agree with you in theory. Winning the ball back high up the pitch is ideally the best approach, but I'm not sure Jose has the confidence in the squad to do that. 

 

I personally don't believe in carrying passengers in defence though. You work hard off the ball to win it back. Too often Mata is half-hearted in his approach. Us playing him through the middle rather than on the wings was as much to do with him being a liability when tracking a full back. Remember when AVB first came and we played 4-3-3? Other teams regularly scored down Ash's side because Mata refused to track fullbacks. Even when playing through the middle his pressing can be non-existent. He will get up close but then gets breezed past by attackers and makes no effort then to get back goal side.

 

I don't think Jose will give in until such time as Mata makes an effort. He certainly didn't ever let up on Joe Cole. 

 

Make no mistake I think with the ball he is the best player we have, but he also has to make an effort to fit in to the way Jose wants to play. There are no passengers. I think De Bruyne is finding out the same thing. He ideally is well placed to replace Frank in the pivot if need be, but he didn't want to work for it, so he won't be the guy.

 

Btw I like the idea of Oscar in the pivot in the long run, but short term we would suffer from the same thing as Lampard and Ramires where both players want to go forward and no one wants to stay back and cover the runs of Cole and Ivanovic.

 

Not sure on this, I think Oscar is a very intelligent player who would stick to any task he was given.

It applies as much to Ramires as it does to Oscar. Both naturally want to get in the box. I'd personally prefer a bigger body with passing range (who moves off the ball though, so not Mikel!)

 

Sorry I'm taking this slightly off topic 

To be honest i actually agree with Jose. Mata is fantastic when given a free role but Jose doesnt have those players in his teams really. Everyone has to work hard to get the ball back when we dont have it. Mata needed to work on that. As Jose said "he doesnt do enough without the ball". Under other managers Mata can get away with that but not under Jose.

Also I think Oscar has done a great job this season. A few not so great results and people are questioning the team and the manager.

When Mata starts doing what Jose wants him to do then im sure he will be back in the team.

Oscar really needs to be more confident and take risks with his passes, he great at keeping possession but seems hesitant at times to take a chance. Which is pretty frustrating as he's clearly got the ability. Until he starts doing that more often then I would have to agree and say Mata is our best choice for the number 10 role.

 

personally don't think Oscar is consistent enough to be our 10 (Mata in his 1st year was the same; after 65mins he was knack erred) but don't see Jose switching to Mata after his public declaration on who is 10 is. The crazy thing is stats support the argument that Oscar is better in Europe & Mata is more effective in the PL.

Sidenote: The whole tracking back issue does my head in; I can't remember Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Baggio ever doing that and present sides that excite fans; Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona of old and current Southampton side use a high pressing game. They press you efficiently all over the pitch and dominate the midfield, two wingers pressing the full back and the 9 the centre backs, when they are without the ball. With the ball; the full backs overlap consistently, attacking space and creating overloads. I might be wrong but When you do that effectively and as a pack, your wingers don't end up as wingbacks or your 10 in defence. Won't this be a more effective route to go, solve the issue of our slow transition and get the most out of our creative players?

We actually did that, pressing high up, in our first few games and I was pretty excited as I thought that's the direction we were heading. I think the problem we have is that we don't have proper DM's to carry that out effectively, unlike those other teams you listed, and is probably partly why we have to resort to having the entire team defend. 

Edited November 12, 201312 yr by Remodez

Yes especially home games.

I think it is all about balance and with Oscar we are more balanced in terms of attack-defense. Mata is miles behind Oscar in tracking back, defending, winning the ball but one of the best in the league in terms of the 'final pass' or seeing the pitch at one glance which we lack without him naturally.

Oscar's done nothing wrong to get dropped which brings this positive dilemma to Jose.

This is a positive prolem so don't make it sound negative IMO

Hazard - Mata - Willian

 

  Ramires - Oscar

 

I would like to see that but Jose won't play Oscar that deep,yet i feel it would really balance the team.

I think it is all about balance and with Oscar we are more balanced in terms of attack-defense. Mata is miles behind Oscar in tracking back, defending, winning the ball but one of the best in the league in terms of the 'final pass' or seeing the pitch at one glance which we lack without him naturally.

Oscar's done nothing wrong to get dropped which brings this positive dilemma to Jose.

This is a positive prolem so don't make it sound negative IMO

It is a negative problem though, we aren't playing well and neither are we creating chances and scoring for fun...

No one in the prem is scoring for fun. City lost to us, won Norwich 7-0 and then lost to the worst team in the league 1-0.

But you are right we are not functioning too well as a team but that comes with time. With our style of rotating managers we only start to show signs of a glued team at spring.

So I don't think it is a question of Mata vs. Oscar.

No one in the prem is scoring for fun. City lost to us, won Norwich 7-0 and then lost to the worst team in the league 1-0.

But you are right we are not functioning too well as a team but that comes with time. With our style of rotating managers we only start to show signs of a glued team at spring.

So I don't think it is a question of Mata vs. Oscar.

 

I also don't think its a case of Mata Vs Oscar, it should be a case Oscar Vs Lampard, it's a fairly one sided contest when you look at the current abilities of both players.

^ spot on. Oscar would be perfect in the role IMO. Frank's pace is not enough in the prem at his current form anyway. He can still deliver in the CL which is slower pace in most cases.

As much as we all love Lampard, I think it's quite clear to see that we wouldn't lose a great deal if Oscar were to take his spot in midfield, especially as it would let Mata back in at 10.

 

As far as I can remember, I don't think any manager we've had has started Oscar in the midfield two. He gets stuck in and works as hard as anyone in the team, so I can't work out why.

 

I wish we could have 2 number 10s...

I am getting more and more frustrated by Mata not being in the team to be honest. I know he isn't as good at tracking back as Oscar but do you know what ? i don't care, i judge Mata on what he can do when attacking, tracking back would just be a bonus. I also hear people questioning his work rate, i don't agree with that either, yes he doesn't always bust a gut to get back but that doesn't mean he isn't working hard. Mata works his ass off in attack, why should not tracking back at every opportunity cost him his place ? Of all our attacking players i don't see anyone work as hard at creating chances than Mata does, why isn't this being taken notice of ?  Oscar is a decent passer of the ball but it's not on the same level as the Mata's of the world, and he tracks back brilliantly, playing him in a deeper role would save his energy levels because playing so far forward and tracking back all the time is harming Oscar's attacking abilities, he's becoming less and less of a threat in attack with each passing game these days.

It annoys me that we have all these wonderful technical players and yet Jose wants to run them into the ground. Surely a balance can be struck?

You could argue that Oscar is failing in his job to create clear cut chances. I feel feel since he has been given the no 10 role, the team isnt as creative as it was. Oscar would be perfect for the double pivot role - he can tackle and provide that attacking edge deeper down the pitch.