2 hours ago, Cyborg7 said:

Musonda is a good player, but i don't think that it's a big crack, while his loan at Betis Seville, he could show his talent but he didn't do it, how you didn't take one place in 11 from Betis Seville ? And after come back at Chelsea and to claim more time of game.... a little respect when even. 

Christensen has been loan at Monchengladbach and he show his talent and he getting one place in 11..

He will do better to work than open his mouth like that...

That first loan to Betis he was their stand out player and basically earned icon status at the club. Fans used to turn up to games wearing Musonda masks, he was that exciting. A change of manager and tactics, alongside injuries, were the only reasons he didn't continue his upwards trajectory in Spain. 

 

Christensen is getting a look in because of suspensions mainly, very unlikely he stays in the starting 11.  

3 hours ago, Argo said:

So if Lukaku came to you in 2014 and said he wanted to be first choice, which would mean abandoning the pursuit of a vastly superior striker, what would you have done?

Who said that exactly?

Lukaku would not have come to me in 2014 with the demand of being the first choice striker IF i had shown some amount of trust in him over BA, etoo and torres. If lukaku came with that demand in 2014, it was because of the fact that Jose did not trust him over those 3, so what exactly would have changed? Infact, Jose trusted schurrle as a False 9 at OT, rather than give lukaku a shot. Every action has a reaction. Lukaku's demand in 2014 start was his reaction to be shunned for 2 has-beens and 1 bang average BA. So I would say it was the perfect demand of any player who actually has an ounce of ambition.

The same jose who used to watch him every day in training. and who judged Lukaku to be not good enough, ended up buying him for 90mil. So this, Conte watches Musonda every day argument is simply an easy way out. There are plenty of examples where the managers got it wrong with youth players (SAF - Pogba, Jose - Lukaku, KDB, etc etc etc). 

 

I dont want to name the guy as that will start another round of his bullsh*tting. Sufficient to say that he goes on and on about how people from other countries cant have sufficient knowledge of the game as they dont watch it live. The same dude said that Andreas simply was not good enough.

4 hours ago, Cyborg7 said:

Musonda is a good player, but i don't think that it's a big crack, while his loan at Betis Seville, he could show his talent but he didn't do it, how you didn't take one place in 11 from Betis Seville ? And after come back at Chelsea and to claim more time of game.... a little respect when even. 

Christensen has been loan at Monchengladbach and he show his talent and he getting one place in 11..

He will do better to work than open his mouth like that...

i do feel it's easier for a defender to look good in a poorer team than it is for an attacking player to do the same. musonda did play well for betis first season, but they were also facing relegation and as an 18/19 year old trying to impress and look impressive, it's tough when you aren't playing around quality in the first place. messi and ronaldo when that age both played amongst world class players, so they had a lot of help to improve. it's why i think musonda needs to stay here and develop. sending him on loan again is just pointless at this point. 

4 hours ago, didierforever said:

Lukaku would not have come to me in 2014 with the demand of being the first choice striker IF i had shown some amount of trust in him over BA, etoo and torres. If lukaku came with that demand in 2014, it was because of the fact that Jose did not trust him over those 3, so what exactly would have changed? Infact, Jose trusted schurrle as a False 9 at OT, rather than give lukaku a shot. Every action has a reaction. Lukaku's demand in 2014 start was his reaction to be shunned for 2 has-beens and 1 bang average BA. So I would say it was the perfect demand of any player who actually has an ounce of ambition.

Actually i think we would have won the title had Eto'o not got injured vs Arsenal, but that's for another day.

He made it clear he was only going to accept being a regular starter, so lets say we bowed down to him in 2013 and made him undisputed number 1 (something he wasn't even at West Brom the year before) he flattered to deceive and we went out to sign Costa, he would have still likely got pissy and demanded a transfer. KDB yes was an error, but selling Lukaku and signing Costa has been more than justified. With Diego and now Morata i can't say i miss Lukaku a little tiny bit.

4 hours ago, didierforever said:

The same jose who used to watch him every day in training. and who judged Lukaku to be not good enough, ended up buying him for 90mil. So this, Conte watches Musonda every day argument is simply an easy way out. There are plenty of examples where the managers got it wrong with youth players (SAF - Pogba, Jose - Lukaku, KDB, etc etc etc). 

You have used some of the very few examples in that regard. Most times a club/manager deems a player not good enough, they are usually right. 

4 hours ago, didierforever said:

I dont want to name the guy as that will start another round of his bullsh*tting. Sufficient to say that he goes on and on about how people from other countries cant have sufficient knowledge of the game as they dont watch it live. The same dude said that Andreas simply was not good enough.

Well i never seen anyone claim Christensen wasn't good enough to play for Chelsea. Ake there was a bit of debate but i think the only thing that was being questioned with Christensen is whether he goes straight in the team or is slowly introduced.

So looks like the club do intend to loan him again in January. 

Sure this could open the door for signing Sanchez but I'd hate to see us lose a young player like Charly in the long run for a couple of the years Sanchez has left. Maybe Willi or Pedro go and we keep Charly while adding Sanchez but it doesn't feel like thats on the cards

12 hours ago, Argo said:

Actually i think we would have won the title had Eto'o not got injured vs Arsenal, but that's for another day.

He made it clear he was only going to accept being a regular starter, so lets say we bowed down to him in 2013 and made him undisputed number 1 (something he wasn't even at West Brom the year before) he flattered to deceive and we went out to sign Costa, he would have still likely got pissy and demanded a transfer. KDB yes was an error, but selling Lukaku and signing Costa has been more than justified. With Diego and now Morata i can't say i miss Lukaku a little tiny bit.

You have used some of the very few examples in that regard. Most times a club/manager deems a player not good enough, they are usually right. 

Well i never seen anyone claim Christensen wasn't good enough to play for Chelsea. Ake there was a bit of debate but i think the only thing that was being questioned with Christensen is whether he goes straight in the team or is slowly introduced.

I dont think that was the case in 2013. Lukaku was more than willing to fight for a place until the last day where we went out and got Etoo. I feel Chelsea fans have created this myth around lukaku to suit their own narratives. I honestly feel, Lukaku did not expect being the undisputed no.1 in 2013, but he surely expected decent gametime when his competition was just torres and ba, add a has-been, half fit etoo, and a world cup year to the mix, obviously he would have wanted some guarantees. The point is not about missing Lukaku. The point is simply that the managers CAN get it wrong too. And they do. Oscar over KDB and Mata, Etoo/Torres/Ba over Lukaku, Filipe Luis... Jose got a lot of things wrong. This is a forum for discussing opinions, but when a poster says "Conte is the manager and he knows the best", for me thats a weird argument as it nullifies the point of a FAN FORUM.

I have used selective arguments here.. Fair enough. But most of the chelsea fans were familiar with KDB's talent, most of the united fans were familiar with Pogba's talent (specially given the fact that Giggs used to play as a CM and/or a back from retirement Scholes). We have a situation where we have an absolute GEM on our hands talent-wise. Couple it with 2 30 year olds in Pedro and Willian, both of whom can leave a lot to be desired from their games, the bare minimum we can do is look a couple of years to the future. Charly can save us 50/60 mil pounds easily if only we are willing to invest a bit in him.

Again, I dont want to tag the person as that is going to open a can of worms. Sufficient to say he has a pic with his biceps showing. :)

I don't know what he expects, we are the leauge champions just won one of European toughest away fixtures never done by an English club before us, did he expect to start against atletico and city? Despite how sh*t Willian is playing musonda is miles away from being a starter at an elite club he needs to go on loan or get sold, bit temperamental when they don't get played these Belgians. 

On 10/12/2017 at 02:35, TheChelseaBlues said:

@Barrettinator Willian hasn't bern that shocking. He hasn't been good but things could be worse. As you say Willian isn't going to improve but Conte knows what he's getting from him and maybe he prefers that in matches against a team like City. Keep in mind he's seen a lot more of Pedro and Willian. I agree there are a few missed chances we could have gotten by with Charly on instead of either of the other two and with Hazard back we could be seeing more of Charly. 

I'm at a loss for why this blowup happened when it did. The only realistic things I can think of are he was told he'll be loaned out again or he's demanded to start/play more and Conte has told him to be patient. 

A bit of sense in an otherwise dramatic thread.

Willian hasn't been that shocking. He has had an inconsistent start to the season, and had a bad game V City (in a generally poor team performance against arguably the best team in the league). 

I don't have anything against Musonda, and was excited by his perforamnce against Forest, but lets not get carried away. That alone is enough for him to expect to be given the nod ahead of Willian. Offer the two of them on loan for the season to Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp or any other Manager in the league and I would bet my house on the fact they would all take Willian. 

I would bet the same people who are suggetsing Musonda could be starting games are the same people who would be calling him out if he actually started against a few top sides and repeatadly got muscled off the ball with little impact. 

In summary, Musonda should pipe down and work hard and, if he is good enough the chances will come his way. 

The guy is 100% right. How many times have we won the youth titles? The youth CL's? How many of them make it? None, we've not have one since JT that's shambolic. United can do it, Spurs can do. Why shouldn't ours expect to get a look in?

 

It's like people don't even watch Willian to say he should be ahead of him. He's been awful this year, literally awful. I don't understand how Musonda shouldn't be expecting to get on the park ahead of him. 

 

You can't just stick by the same players who aren't doing it anymore because they're senior players and that's exactly our problem.

 

I don't necessarily agree with how he has went about it but I can understand the frustration at not getting a look in when you have a player like Willian ahead of you in the pecking order based on his form.

 

This is a flaw in the club without a doubt, we have the most talented youth teams in European football year after year and none of them make it? There's no way it's just a coincidence IMO. 

On 10/10/2017 at 22:47, ivorycoast said:

Jake Clarke-Salter liked his post

Hardly surprising is it? I think you'd probably find any Chelsea youth player from the last 15 years would like it.

2 hours ago, mclovin83 said:

I would bet the same people who are suggetsing Musonda could be starting games are the same people who would be calling him out if he actually started against a few top sides and repeatadly got muscled off the ball with little impact.

Don't really see anyone saying he should be starting against the likes of City and Atletico but there is certainly no reason he can't be starting against Qarabag. He doesn't even make the bench most of the time, when he could be coming on for 20 mins when we're 3-0 up at Stoke. If he was getting muscled repeatedly off the ball at least he'd be learning from mistakes, unlike Willian who is still getting muscled off the ball whilst running towards his own goal most of the time.

The 3 matches directly after Charly played against Forest, were Stoke City away, Atleti away, and Man City home. Charly obviously thinks he is entitled to start in at least one of those matches. IMO you should not be starting an inexperienced young player, in any of those 3 matches, unless you are down to the bare bones. He will get his chance, however if he prefers to show petulance, that's his prerogative

13 hours ago, didierforever said:

I dont think that was the case in 2013. Lukaku was more than willing to fight for a place until the last day where we went out and got Etoo. I feel Chelsea fans have created this myth around lukaku to suit their own narratives. I honestly feel, Lukaku did not expect being the undisputed no.1 in 2013, but he surely expected decent gametime when his competition was just torres and ba, add a has-been, half fit etoo, and a world cup year to the mix, obviously he would have wanted some guarantees. The point is not about missing Lukaku. The point is simply that the managers CAN get it wrong too. And they do. Oscar over KDB and Mata, Etoo/Torres/Ba over Lukaku, Filipe Luis... Jose got a lot of things wrong. This is a forum for discussing opinions, but when a poster says "Conte is the manager and he knows the best", for me thats a weird argument as it nullifies the point of a FAN FORUM.

I have used selective arguments here.. Fair enough. But most of the chelsea fans were familiar with KDB's talent, most of the united fans were familiar with Pogba's talent (specially given the fact that Giggs used to play as a CM and/or a back from retirement Scholes). We have a situation where we have an absolute GEM on our hands talent-wise. Couple it with 2 30 year olds in Pedro and Willian, both of whom can leave a lot to be desired from their games, the bare minimum we can do is look a couple of years to the future. Charly can save us 50/60 mil pounds easily if only we are willing to invest a bit in him.

Again, I dont want to tag the person as that is going to open a can of worms. Sufficient to say he has a pic with his biceps showing. :)

Wasn't Ba the one going until Lukaku handed in a request? That's what a lot of sources claimed and given Jose lost faith in Torres quickly, he would have likely been alternating with Samuel most of the season. He came on in 3 of the 4 game's and i think would have got more and who knows what would have happened. I still think Eto'o suited that team more however and i stand by that, the period between after he got upto speed about December time upto his injury vs Arsenal in my opinion he was absolutely brilliant and at times was dragging us through himself. The sheer amount of big games he infulenced was inhuman.

KDB was clearly back then heading for a top class career, although i confess i wasn't expecting him to be this good. Musonda i can't see hitting KDB/Eden levels, he seems more Quaresma esque to me as in he doesn't apply his talent properly. I'd love to be wrong as i am a massive fan of the idea and potential of Charly im just yet to be sold on the reality.

On 10-10-2017 at 16:30, RIP Mourinho said:

KdB was rubbish in the cup against poor opposition therefore didn't deserve a chance in our starting 11.

 

Charly was good in the cup against poor opposition therefore doesn't deserve a chance in our starting 11.

 

What exactly DOES a youngster need to do to get a start at Chelsea?

Confidence. Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase.

The whole team was rubbish in that game against a poor opposition, RIP Mourinho.

 

KDB deserved a chance in that final against Munich. At that moment he was one of the best, maybe the best.

On 10-10-2017 at 09:50, big blue said:

 

Musonda was the biggest talent in anderlechts academy, If you look at where tielemans is compared to musonda, maybe musonda should've stayed. I'm sure he would be a better player than he is now, if he had 200 appearances under his belt. 

 

Yep. Correct, Big Blue.

Not only in Anderlecht. Musonda was Belgium biggest talent!

 

He should have a place in the National team right now.

I remember debating that he wasn't physical enough for the PL and people said it's not necessary, interestingly today conte said he needs to improve physically, as mentioned before he is far too slight to play in the PL, it's the most physical league in Europe, you get small but powerful players like hazard, or small and wiry players like kante, that's one of teh reasons jose didn't like mata he was too light weight and he is far stronger built and more skillful that musonda, he needs to take a couple of years get some game time, bulk up and he might be a chelsea level player, not now, miles away. 

No way doubting his potential, but the lad couldn't get regular game time at Real Betis.
What does he offer right now that Pedro and Willian don't already have?
The guy needs to knuckle down, play well in cup games and keep his mouth shut.
 

And may I also point out that Conte put trust in an 18 year old Pogba, he's not unwilling to play young players, they just have to be mentally ready to be played.
Wow, I can't believe I'm somewhat praising Pogba's attitude. 

i've got high hopes for hudson-odoi, so if charly doesn't live up to hype, callum can be that guy. we have a fabulous set of youngsters in ampadu, hudson-odoi, george mccreachran, billy gilmour, etc, i really hope at least 1 makes it to the first team. in the next 5 years it would be great to see more youth come through and cement their place. surely it has to happen, right? 

11 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

I remember debating that he wasn't physical enough for the PL and people said it's not necessary, interestingly today conte said he needs to improve physically, as mentioned before he is far too slight to play in the PL, it's the most physical league in Europe, you get small but powerful players like hazard, or small and wiry players like kante, that's one of teh reasons jose didn't like mata he was too light weight and he is far stronger built and more skillful that musonda, he needs to take a couple of years get some game time, bulk up and he might be a chelsea level player, not now, miles away. 

David Silva, one of the best players in the league over the past 6 or 7 years, is just as slight of frame as Charly. 

The Championship is much more physical than the Premier league and Charly held his own against them easily enough. 

If you've got the pace and skills like Charly has a player won't be able to get close to him and use that physicality without fouling him. Half of City's team are all weak little dwarfs and they're walking the league with ease. 

On 12/10/2017 at 12:13, RIP Mourinho said:

That first loan to Betis he was their stand out player and basically earned icon status at the club. Fans used to turn up to games wearing Musonda masks, he was that exciting. A change of manager and tactics, alongside injuries, were the only reasons he didn't continue his upwards trajectory in Spain. 

 

Christensen is getting a look in because of suspensions mainly, very unlikely he stays in the starting 11.  

A change of manager and tactics not gonna prevent a good player go on, and show his talent, mostly if you are a player who score and assist... All right for injuries. 

6 minutes ago, Cyborg7 said:

A change of manager and tactics not gonna prevent a good player go on, and show his talent, mostly if you are a player who score and assist... All right for injuries. 

A change of manager and tactic won't stop a good player? Explain why Mata was sold when Mourinho came in then..

On 12/10/2017 at 14:36, enigma said:

i do feel it's easier for a defender to look good in a poorer team than it is for an attacking player to do the same. musonda did play well for betis first season, but they were also facing relegation and as an 18/19 year old trying to impress and look impressive, it's tough when you aren't playing around quality in the first place. messi and ronaldo when that age both played amongst world class players, so they had a lot of help to improve. it's why i think musonda needs to stay here and develop. sending him on loan again is just pointless at this point. 

It's same for a defender or attacking player. If you are strong, you play that's all... Monchengladbach it's a poor team ??? They played the Champions League... 

I don't tell that we must sell Musonda, just that he would do better work hard in silence than open his mouth, like if was Messi or Ronaldo

3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

A change of manager and tactic won't stop a good player? Explain why Mata was sold when Mourinho came in then..

Because he didn't do defensive work that Mourinho wanted

Just now, Cyborg7 said:

Because he didn't do defensive work that Mourinho wanted

And there you go, you've just answered the debate of why Charly didn't get a look in during his second season at Betis. Good bye.