4 hours ago, Nibs said:

You seem to be forgetting the posters who defend him and clearly still have a soft spot for him!!

 

This.

People talk about his critics rising to the bait. If that is 'bait', then so are the criticisms. And several people who tell others to stop rising to the bait have been 'baited' themselves. Does no one see any irony in this argument? There are other arguments but not this. Personally I feel that calling what Jose says 'bait' is absolutely ridiculous anyway.

And then there are people 'moaning' about Jose and there are people who 'moan' about people 'moaning'.

It takes both sides to keep this conversation up and unfortunately the conversation isn't any longer about Jose's merits and demerits (or the merits and demerits of his behaviour) but about the right to discuss any demerits.

6 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Sometimes as a team you need to park the bus. If you go to Madrid and Barca and attack them like Arsenal would they will just pick you off and there attacking players would have so much space. Mourinho s first team could go to any stadium and get the result needed, that's why Barca hated playing Chelsea so much. 

Yes, very insightful. The point of my post was to suggest that "parking the bus" is a useless tactic. Is that how we beat Barca? All these years later, the merits of the strategy are now clear to me!

Ernie, I am now completely earnest when I say that you should take a little more trouble to interpret what a certain post is saying and not just pick on keywords or key phrases.

You don't need to tell (especially) a Chelsea fan that the strategy can be useful! I was merely talking about why the neutrals perceive this team to be more pleasing on the eye than Jose's team despite the fact that both are predominantly counter attacking teams. And that Jose should be able to see this.

4 minutes ago, ashwin said:

Yes, very insightful. The point of my post was to suggest that "parking the bus" is a useless tactic. Is that how we beat Barca? All these years later, the merits of the strategy are now clear to me!

Ernie, I am now completely earnest when I say that you should take a little more trouble to interpret what a certain post is saying and not just pick on keywords or key phrases.

You don't need to tell (especially) a Chelsea fan that the strategy can be useful! I was merely talking about why the neutrals perceive this team to be more pleasing on the eye than Jose's team despite the fact that both are predominantly counter attacking teams. And that Jose should be able to see this.

Well TBH I reckon most fans can't even remember Mourinhos first team that well. They will remember it was defensively sound because it is obvious but with attacking talent and goals from Lampard, Drogba, Robben, Duff and then sometimes Eidur use to play in midfield I don't see how this current team is any more attacking.

I think Contes team find it very hard to break teams down and like Mourinhos team they take the lead then counter attack. It will be interesting to see how Chelsea would cope if they go behind more often, plan b is Fabregas but he will off in the summer.

ashwin no need to be such a p****! Can you read yourself? I never said that's how we beat Barca, I said Barca hated playing Chelsea.

chelsea fans be like a load of jilted lovers when it comes to jose but i suppose he was the special one

2 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Imagine where you would be without all those offside goals 

Or all those penalties not given... we still have a few offside goals to be given until we're close to being equal.

Very aware of the offside goals, also the ~3 red cards we should've been given. But we've seriously been robbed on at least 5-6 100% penalties and 5-6 50/50 not given... trying to be as objective as possible here. But we've lost more than we've gained on erroneous decisions. But all this is a discussion better suited in the "crappy referees of 2016/2017"-thread 

Edited February 7, 20179 yr by Bogga

1 hour ago, Ernie_blue said:

Well TBH I reckon most fans can't even remember Mourinhos first team that well. They will remember it was defensively sound because it is obvious but with attacking talent and goals from Lampard, Drogba, Robben, Duff and then sometimes Eidur use to play in midfield I don't see how this current team is any more attacking.

I think Contes team find it very hard to break teams down and like Mourinhos team they take the lead then counter attack. It will be interesting to see how Chelsea would cope if they go behind more often, plan b is Fabregas but he will off in the summer.

ashwin no need to be such a p****! Can you read yourself? I never said that's how we beat Barca, I said Barca hated playing Chelsea.

We had great attacking players but they didn't gel together in attack as well as this team, did they? The fact that we had several good attackers doesn't make their play as attacking! If that was the case, then coaching would be irrelevant. 

I didn't mean to be a prick, just a little forceful. Sorry about that. However, I will reiterate that the merits of parking the bus were unrelated to the discussion. 

I remember Jose's first team very well :)

7 hours ago, Stim said:

A lot of posters are more likely just tired of responding to the same old people saying the same things every week. 

Let's be real here, if Jose was first and we were 6th, this thread would be riddled with posters slagging off our players for "rebelling" against Jose and using the table to prove their point.

Do I love and appreciate everything Jose did for the club? Absolutely no question. Am I enjoying the fact we are going from strength to strength while he stuck in 6th? Very much so aswell. I spent the best part of a year constantly debating/arguing about who's fault last season was out of players or Jose, now there's no doubt.

19 minutes ago, ashwin said:

We had great attacking players but they didn't gel together in attack as well as this team, did they? The fact that we had several good attackers doesn't make their play as attacking! If that was the case, then coaching would be irrelevant. 

I didn't mean to be a prick, just a little forceful. Sorry about that. However, I will reiterate that the merits of parking the bus were unrelated to the discussion. 

I remember Jose's first team very well :)

I apologise for what I said. I do read through the whole posts it's just I see a part that interests me and write something regarding it. This is not pointed at you but I find the term parking the bus abit frustrating. It's a manager who has tactically drilled his team to perfection. I'm sure Mourinho once moaned about a team doing it at stamford bridge though.

As a fan I don't mind grinding out results or going upto Old Trafford, Anfield and sitting back. That's what you have to do to win trophies. 

I can also see why neutrals say Chelsea are good to watch as a counter attacking team, I'm not sure there is anyone quicker or better. Taking the lead suits them more. If Chelsea did concede the first goal more than they scored then I worry about the quality in the team to break others down.

Its abit hard to make comparisons to Mourinhos first stint really because the memories are so fresh from this season. I just remember they was a machine and I was in awe of a midfield trio of Essien, Maka and Lampard.

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Let's be real here, if Jose was first and we were 6th, this thread would be riddled with posters slagging off our players for "rebelling" against Jose and using the table to prove their point.

Do I love and appreciate everything Jose did for the club? Absolutely no question. Am I enjoying the fact we are going from strength to strength while he stuck in 6th? Very much so aswell. I spent the best part of a year constantly debating/arguing about who's fault last season was out of players or Jose, now there's no doubt.

Players?

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Let's be real here, if Jose was first and we were 6th, this thread would be riddled with posters slagging off our players for "rebelling" against Jose and using the table to prove their point.

Do I love and appreciate everything Jose did for the club? Absolutely no question. Am I enjoying the fact we are going from strength to strength while he stuck in 6th? Very much so aswell. I spent the best part of a year constantly debating/arguing about who's fault last season was out of players or Jose, now there's no doubt.

Doesn't the fact that we're in 1st prove the players we have were underperforming last season?

3 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Doesn't the fact that we're in 1st prove the players we have were underperforming last season?

Don't think there is any question that they underperformed last season. But you have to look deeper than that. No-one performs badly on purpose (as much as some folk will insist players downed tools or there was some sort of plot!) It has to be down to the coach and his team to put things right. For whatever reason, Jose ran out of ideas and wasn't able to improve things whereas Conte clearly has and some. Man management, different approach, tactics, formations, training......whatever it is, it has worked and we are back on track and heading in the right direction so no point keep looking back.

We now appear to have the right man in charge and I for one couldn't be happier.

7 hours ago, Argo said:

Let's be real here, if Jose was first and we were 6th, this thread would be riddled with posters slagging off our players for "rebelling" against Jose and using the table to prove their point.

No, the same usual suspects would still be peddling their 'he tanked the team on purpose to go to united' shtick. 

7 hours ago, Argo said:

Do I love and appreciate everything Jose did for the club? Absolutely no question. Am I enjoying the fact we are going from strength to strength while he stuck in 6th? Very much so aswell.

You and me both. But we aren't insufferable about it. Imagine hanging on to his every word to come cry here about it.

But I suppose Oscar is gone, Mikel is gone and the team is performing well so we gotta scrape the barrel for things to moan about.

Edited February 8, 20179 yr by Stim

On 06/02/2017 at 16:14, mojo said:

“You know, my team is playing very well,” Mourinho began. “But for many, many years in my career, especially in this country, when my teams were ruthless, and when my teams were phenomenal defensively and very good on the counter-attack, I listened week after week that it was not enough, in spite of winning the title three times. It looks like this season to be phenomenal defensively and good on the counter-attack, is art so it was a big change in England.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-united-jose-mourinho-leicester-defending-art-a7564256.html

He is spot on there.

Jose never got the credit. the chants of "boring the  boring chelsea" and that jose being a "defensive manager", yet conte using the same/similar approach (defensive/brilliant counter) gets him so much plaudit from the media.

He definitely will be disappointed by the way he is treated by the media.

4 hours ago, Nibs said:

Don't think there is any question that they underperformed last season. But you have to look deeper than that. No-one performs badly on purpose (as much as some folk will insist players downed tools or there was some sort of plot!) It has to be down to the coach and his team to put things right. For whatever reason, Jose ran out of ideas and wasn't able to improve things whereas Conte clearly has and some. Man management, different approach, tactics, formations, training......whatever it is, it has worked and we are back on track and heading in the right direction so no point keep looking back.

We now appear to have the right man in charge and I for one couldn't be happier.

Some of it was Mourinhos fault but the players are not blameless. I don't think either can be blamed 100%. Some players didn't turn up all year and they should have abit more respect for the club and fans to play for the club even if you don't like the manager.

At the end of the day players are always seen as the heros and things are quickly forgotten.

40 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Some of it was Mourinhos fault but the players are not blameless. I don't think either can be blamed 100%. Some players didn't turn up all year and they should have abit more respect for the club and fans to play for the club even if you don't like the manager.

At the end of the day players are always seen as the heros and things are quickly forgotten.

Of course it's the players that are the heroes. That's how it always has been. As a kid, I don't recall ever having a picture of the Chelsea Manager on my bedroom wall!!

We could debate this ad infinitum. Some folk will carry on trying to defend him whereas I'm in the camp who are glad he's no longer here. I'm not debating that Jose isn't still a great coach - of course he is. He's not finding it quite as easy as he once did but I'm not writing him off - not all the time he is able to spend sh*t loads of money on rebuilding Man Utd. Thankfully, we are better than them right now and in IMO, in Conte we have found a coach who is a better fit for us now. I'll admit that I would have been gutted if we had struggled this season and Jose had led Man Utd to PL success but thankfully that ain't gonna happen!!

 

 

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

Of course it's the players that are the heroes. That's how it always has been. As a kid, I don't recall ever having a picture of the Chelsea Manager on my bedroom wall!!

We could debate this ad infinitum. Some folk will carry on trying to defend him whereas I'm in the camp who are glad he's no longer here. I'm not debating that Jose isn't still a great coach - of course he is. He's not finding it quite as easy as he once did but I'm not writing him off - not all the time he is able to spend sh*t loads of money on rebuilding Man Utd. Thankfully, we are better than them right now and in IMO, in Conte we have found a coach who is a better fit for us now. I'll admit that I would have been gutted if we had struggled this season and Jose had led Man Utd to PL success but thankfully that ain't gonna happen!!

 

 

I'm not trying to defend Mourinho, it's just I don't think he or the players are to be blamed fully for what happened. I just think anyone who says this season proves it was all Mourinho are just letting the players of to easy.

People forget Costa wanted to leave, turned up fat. Threw his bib at the manager and spent more time next to the ballboys than in the box. That's not defending the manager but remembering what Costa was like and he didn't get two s**** about club. Of course all forgotten now we are top and flying.

6 hours ago, Nibs said:

Don't think there is any question that they underperformed last season. But you have to look deeper than that. No-one performs badly on purpose (as much as some folk will insist players downed tools or there was some sort of plot!) It has to be down to the coach and his team to put things right. For whatever reason, Jose ran out of ideas and wasn't able to improve things whereas Conte clearly has and some. Man management, different approach, tactics, formations, training......whatever it is, it has worked and we are back on track and heading in the right direction so no point keep looking back.

We now appear to have the right man in charge and I for one couldn't be happier.

C'mon, you know that isn't true

29 minutes ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

C'mon, you know that isn't true

Nibs would not have written that if he had thought it wasn't true. 

56 minutes ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

C'mon, you know that isn't true

What, you honestly believe that a highly paid professional footballer at a top club like Chelsea (or ANY top club) will go out in a game and deliberately not play well? That if they don't play well, it's nothing to do with injury, fatigue, loss of form, other issues (mental, personal, fall-out with team-mate, coach etc), but no you think they just go out and play sh*t 'cos they can't be arsed?

Really? 

26 minutes ago, moi said:

Nibs would not have written that if he had thought it wasn't true. 

True but it's completely wrong. Whether you get on with the manager or not if you don't get in the box as much as you normally would, run at defenders like you normally would, put that extra bit of effort in to keep a ball. There's plenty of examples of not performing on purpose and it's not just the current players who showed it last year. Drogba was also a prime example when he didn't get on with a manager.

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

What, you honestly believe that a highly paid professional footballer at a top club like Chelsea (or ANY top club) will go out in a game and deliberately not play well? That if they don't play well, it's nothing to do with injury, fatigue, loss of form, other issues (mental, personal, fall-out with team-mate, coach etc), but no you think they just go out and play sh*t 'cos they can't be arsed?

Really? 

If a player doesn't get on with the coach and doesnt put 100% into his performance then surely it is on purpose? Costa not being in the box wasn't on purpose? Just because there's a reason like not getting on with the manager doesn't mean you can't give a good performance for the fans and club who pay your wages.

1 minute ago, Ernie_blue said:

True but it's completely wrong. Whether you get on with the manager or not if you don't get in the box as much as you normally would, run at defenders like you normally would, put that extra bit of effort in to keep a ball. There's plenty of examples of not performing on purpose and it's not just the current players who showed it last year. Drogba was also a prime example when he didn't get on with a manager.

I still don't believe that. A top player with massive pride would surely not go out and under-perform intentionally. Anyone who has ever polayed the game will know that they have good games and patches and games when nothing goes right but not because you aren't trying.

If what you are saying is true then it brings the coach into question for continually selecting the player(s).

 

5 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I still don't believe that. A top player with massive pride would surely not go out and under-perform intentionally. Anyone who has ever polayed the game will know that they have good games and patches and games when nothing goes right but not because you aren't trying.

If what you are saying is true then it brings the coach into question for continually selecting the player(s).

 

I see someone who has stopped getting in the box as doing it on purpose. Yeah players lose form but Costa wasn't getting in the box and stood on the left making the worse right backs look great by running into them. 

Mourinho did drop Costa in the end and he got the hump. There wasn't really any other options. I don't know why he kept picking him but guesses could be he could see it out till Jan. Even without Costa 100% backing he would be better than Remy and Falcao. Once you lose a few players at Chelsea whoever you are you are out the door. 

14 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Doesn't the fact that we're in 1st prove the players we have were underperforming last season?

If it was a case of players underperforming we would have slid a few places at worst, even Hazard, Cesc and Costa downing tools would make mince meat of the bottom half sides, however out of last seasons squad until Jose got sacked everyone bar Begovic and Willian were playing the worst football of their career, that for me is solely down to the manager.

Ill repeat again (mainly so people don't try and twist what im saying into a hate campaign) i appreciate the success Jose has given us but last seasons mess was solely his fault, in my opinion.

if a team under performs it has to be the fault of the coach, what ever the reason