1 hour ago, Argo said:

If it was a case of players underperforming we would have slid a few places at worst, even Hazard, Cesc and Costa downing tools would make mince meat of the bottom half sides, however out of last seasons squad until Jose got sacked everyone bar Begovic and Willian were playing the worst football of their career, that for me is solely down to the manager.

Ill repeat again (mainly so people don't try and twist what im saying into a hate campaign) i appreciate the success Jose has given us but last seasons mess was solely his fault, in my opinion.

So Mourinho told every player to play rubbish? If I had any pride I would give my all whatever I felt about the manager. 

1 hour ago, luckywerthers said:

if a team under performs it has to be the fault of the coach, what ever the reason

It's always the manager who gets the sack, this will be the same for every single bad moment for every club.

Doesn't mean the players are not responsible.

5 hours ago, Nibs said:

What, you honestly believe that a highly paid professional footballer at a top club like Chelsea (or ANY top club) will go out in a game and deliberately not play well? That if they don't play well, it's nothing to do with injury, fatigue, loss of form, other issues (mental, personal, fall-out with team-mate, coach etc), but no you think they just go out and play sh*t 'cos they can't be arsed?

Really? 

If they aren't playing well it's not ALWAYS on purpose of course but I'm sure footballers don't always give 100% effort and enthusiasm either. Some probably don't care who the manager is, they play football to enjoy it and because they love it. Other however have different or additional considerations and desires. How else would you explain teams getting results after their manager is sacked for example? Statistical anomaly? 

38 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

It's always the manager who gets the sack, this will be the same for every single bad moment for every club.

Doesn't mean the players are not responsible.

yes but if they are playing badly because of the coach it is because he does not have the "dressing room?" surely that is rule number one for any coach to have the team on side, in any walk of life

Edited February 8, 20179 yr by luckywerthers

12 minutes ago, luckywerthers said:

yes but if they are playing badly because of the coach it is because he does not have the "dressing room?" surely that is rule number one for any coach to have the team on side, in any walk of life

Players playing badly is not all down to the manager. You can tell when players are tryng or are even bothered. Sometimes the players need to take a good long at themselves. Some people say look at the players this season under Conte so it has to be Mourinhos fault. Same could be said of the players in my eyes. Like I said the manager is always the fall guy and the players will be heroes whatever they do.

This isn't defending Mourinho to the max and I think he is guilty for some things regarding last year but the players could never be let of scot free but of course they will be. That's footy.

1 hour ago, Ernie_blue said:

So Mourinho told every player to play rubbish? If I had any pride I would give my all whatever I felt about the manager. 

Have you played football at any level?

44 minutes ago, Argo said:

Have you played football at any level?

Yep

It is a wee bit unfair to compare Mourinhos Chelsea from last year with Contes Chelsea this year. Ignoring all the managerial differences let us just look at the player changes. Mourinhos Chelsea were leaking goals like crazy. Matic-Cesc combo was under performing, Ivanovich and Terry were very slow. Costa was not fit to start off with and the only reiforcement last year was Papy Dildobobby. 

Now let us look at what happened after Conte came in. We then bought Kante to help support Matic and put Cesc in Bench. We also brought David Luiz back, Marcos Alonso that made Terry and Ivanovich expendable and Batshuayi as a back up striker. While these may not be Contes first choice, we did reincorce the squad to the tune of millions - Reinforcements that Mourinho was already demanding last year.

Will this same squad under Mourinho be in the #1 position now as we are currently under Conte ? I dont know, but what i do know is that perhaps a bigger reason for our under-performance had more to do with upgrading an ageing squad that badly needed to be upgraded. 

4 hours ago, brownindian said:

It is a wee bit unfair to compare Mourinhos Chelsea from last year with Contes Chelsea this year. Ignoring all the managerial differences let us just look at the player changes. Mourinhos Chelsea were leaking goals like crazy. Matic-Cesc combo was under performing, Ivanovich and Terry were very slow. Costa was not fit to start off with and the only reiforcement last year was Papy Dildobobby. 

Now let us look at what happened after Conte came in. We then bought Kante to help support Matic and put Cesc in Bench. We also brought David Luiz back, Marcos Alonso that made Terry and Ivanovich expendable and Batshuayi as a back up striker. While these may not be Contes first choice, we did reincorce the squad to the tune of millions - Reinforcements that Mourinho was already demanding last year.

Will this same squad under Mourinho be in the #1 position now as we are currently under Conte ? I dont know, but what i do know is that perhaps a bigger reason for our under-performance had more to do with upgrading an ageing squad that badly needed to be upgraded. 

Mourinho wanted Falcao and got him. He wanted Begovic, got him. He wanted Pedro, got him. He wanted Stones and we would have committed a world record defender fee had Everton budged. Maybe Conte had contingency plans (lets be honest, Luiz and Alonso were plan D at best) wereas Jose wanted Stones and Pogba or bust (Alderwierld and Witsel were available that summer for decent prices).

Furthermore even if he was screwed over in the market, it does not serve as an excuse for losing 9 of the first 16 games and have us 1 point above relegation. The excuse of the market could have washed were we 6th, but 16th with Chelsea? No, unacceptable whatever the handicaps were.

10 hours ago, brownindian said:

It is a wee bit unfair to compare Mourinhos Chelsea from last year with Contes Chelsea this year. Ignoring all the managerial differences let us just look at the player changes. Mourinhos Chelsea were leaking goals like crazy. Matic-Cesc combo was under performing, Ivanovich and Terry were very slow. Costa was not fit to start off with and the only reiforcement last year was Papy Dildobobby. 

Now let us look at what happened after Conte came in. We then bought Kante to help support Matic and put Cesc in Bench. We also brought David Luiz back, Marcos Alonso that made Terry and Ivanovich expendable and Batshuayi as a back up striker. While these may not be Contes first choice, we did reincorce the squad to the tune of millions - Reinforcements that Mourinho was already demanding last year.

Will this same squad under Mourinho be in the #1 position now as we are currently under Conte ? I dont know, but what i do know is that perhaps a bigger reason for our under-performance had more to do with upgrading an ageing squad that badly needed to be upgraded. 

But it's a non-argument as Mourinho would never have re-signed Luiz, nor would he have changed the formation as Conte has and he always wanted Pogba, not Kante.  

4 hours ago, Nibs said:

But it's a non-argument as Mourinho would never have re-signed Luiz, nor would he have changed the formation as Conte has and he always wanted Pogba, not Kante.  

He tried to sign Kante in the summer but we beat him to it. He probably would've signed him and Pogba both if he could've.

Quote

"It was amazing to have Mourinho call me, even though I'd been warned before how he would appeal to me," Kante said.

"I listened to his arguments about why I should move to United.

"But at that time I was hesitant between staying at Leicester or leaving for Chelsea.

"My discussions with them were already well underway. But when I spoke, I had a good feeling with Conte."

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10562045/n8217golo-kante-reveals-man-utd-attempted-to-sign-him-prior-to-chelsea-move

On 2/9/2017 at 20:21, Argo said:

Mourinho wanted Falcao and got him. He wanted Begovic, got him. He wanted Pedro, got him. He wanted Stones and we would have committed a world record defender fee had Everton budged. Maybe Conte had contingency plans (lets be honest, Luiz and Alonso were plan D at best) wereas Jose wanted Stones and Pogba or bust (Alderwierld and Witsel were available that summer for decent prices).

Furthermore even if he was screwed over in the market, it does not serve as an excuse for losing 9 of the first 16 games and have us 1 point above relegation. The excuse of the market could have washed were we 6th, but 16th with Chelsea? No, unacceptable whatever the handicaps were.

Fair points - But think about this, the arrival of Hiddink did not radically change our fortunes as well. We did win more games but we were still an above average team, not the title winning team of the year before. We started slightly better and we were confident of finishing close to a Europa spot as it seemed mathematically feasible, but then we saw too many draws anad loses and we ended up 10th. For me, not only Mourinho but even Hiddink struggling to get us to play to the level that we were playing a year before seems to indicate that the squad we had was not good enough. After looking at the squad this year, It is more evident that we were badly in need of squad strengthening. 

To make it clear, I am not absolving Mourinho - Part of a managers job is to try and make the team play to their capabilities and his squad did not live up to its potential, but make no mistake that squad was badly in need of some strengthening. And while i type that, I feel the same with this squad. Our lack of midweek games is allowing Conte to play the same first 11 and improve and take his time to tweak things, but if he do not get quality added to this squad this summer we will not be winning many trophies.

5 hours ago, brownindian said:

Fair points - But think about this, the arrival of Hiddink did not radically change our fortunes as well. We did win more games but we were still an above average team, not the title winning team of the year before. We started slightly better and we were confident of finishing close to a Europa spot as it seemed mathematically feasible, but then we saw too many draws anad loses and we ended up 10th. For me, not only Mourinho but even Hiddink struggling to get us to play to the level that we were playing a year before seems to indicate that the squad we had was not good enough. After looking at the squad this year, It is more evident that we were badly in need of squad strengthening. 

 

 

1st game after jose was sacked was against sunderland and we won that game with style.. 3-1 the scoreline, it was some performance after all the dull crap games before in that season.. You could see the team spirit was lifted...  In fact, the difference in performance was too eyecatching that some (jose's) fans actually booing the players calling them rats.. That might have played in the players mind, a change in a dramatic fashion is just maybe too give a away.. 

 

Lets face it, the players wouldn't want to show their masterplan in the obvious manner to the public, would they? Had the fortune changed dramatically then there would be no argument that they 'down tools' but because it hadn't, well the argument is there and here.. Our quality has always been there under roman abramovich era, when it didn't show, it's because the manager lost the dressing room, not the 1st time that happened..

 

Quote

"Chelsea are very good defensive team. They defend very well and with lots of players and I think in this situation a very defensive team wins the title with counterattack goals and set pieces goals so I don't think they will let it slip but football is football."

Maybe it's just me but I'm 100% sure he mean't this in a sarcastic and attacking way. I love this guy for everything he did for us but is trying to make us hate him or something? 

Some pretty bitter comments from jose after their win today. 

I get he is trying to have a pop at the media who say his teams are defensive, but he is starting to grate on me.

Considering he said he loves this club, he doesnt mind having sky digs at us, which i find slightly disrepectful, especiallywhen he says nothing but nice things about porto, inter, and madrid. 

In spite of the league title we won second tine around, i feel it was a mistake coning back, as 2nd break up now seems to have soured a relationship with our most successful manager, certainly on his side anyway.

Im forever greatful for the good times, and i hope when we are no longer in direct competition, he shows the fans the respect they showed him from day 1. 

Until then i hope he fails miserably. 

 

Yeah disappointed by his latest comments. Expected better from him. It could actually get worse if United become our main rivals. 

28 minutes ago, big blue said:

Some pretty bitter comments from jose after their win today. 

I get he is trying to have a pop at the media who say his teams are defensive, but he is starting to grate on me.

Considering he said he loves this club, he doesnt mind having sky digs at us, which i find slightly disrepectful, especiallywhen he says nothing but nice things about porto, inter, and madrid. 

In spite of the league title we won second tine around, i feel it was a mistake coning back, as 2nd break up now seems to have soured a relationship with our most successful manager, certainly on his side anyway.

Im forever greatful for the good times, and i hope when we are no longer in direct competition, he shows the fans the respect they showed him from day 1. 

Until then i hope he fails miserably. 

 

He got sacked by us. Twice. His behaviour is unexpected but not surprising. 

 

3 minutes ago, abister1 said:

He got sacked by us. Twice. His behaviour is unexpected but not surprising. 

Disappointing nonetheless 

3 minutes ago, big blue said:

 

Disappointing nonetheless 

Oh certainly disappointing. I was a huge fan and defender of the man even when I knew he was in the wrong and just being a D head. Right now I'm like....meh....whatever loser. Loser in this regard being his petulance and overall general behaviour of course. Serial winner. Scary like someone said earlier if Man Utd became our main challenger/competition. I saw a stay earlier that they are on their longest unbeaten run since Fergie.

jose rightly or wrongly has a bit of a chip on his shoulder full stop. Watch it become a sack of potatoes if chelsea take the title.

Take away it's Mourinho who said those comments and it's pretty much spot on.

On 09/02/2017 at 21:06, brownindian said:

It is a wee bit unfair to compare Mourinhos Chelsea from last year with Contes Chelsea this year. Ignoring all the managerial differences let us just look at the player changes. Mourinhos Chelsea were leaking goals like crazy. Matic-Cesc combo was under performing, Ivanovich and Terry were very slow. Costa was not fit to start off with and the only reiforcement last year was Papy Dildobobby. 

Now let us look at what happened after Conte came in. We then bought Kante to help support Matic and put Cesc in Bench. We also brought David Luiz back, Marcos Alonso that made Terry and Ivanovich expendable and Batshuayi as a back up striker. While these may not be Contes first choice, we did reincorce the squad to the tune of millions - Reinforcements that Mourinho was already demanding last year.

Will this same squad under Mourinho be in the #1 position now as we are currently under Conte ? I dont know, but what i do know is that perhaps a bigger reason for our under-performance had more to do with upgrading an ageing squad that badly needed to be upgraded. 

Superb. Agree 100%. Factually spot on.

Mourinho, for whatever reason, never got the reinforcements he asked for. Asked for repeatedly. And that, IMO, was the overriding factor.

 

On 10/02/2017 at 07:21, Nibs said:

But it's a non-argument as Mourinho would never have re-signed Luiz, nor would he have changed the formation as Conte has and he always wanted Pogba, not Kante.  

To be fair Nibs, given his defending during his previous EPL spell, I don't think any manager of the top six sides would have signed David Luiz. Fair point about the formational change though. What Conte and his coaching team have done there is just short of miraculous.

5 hours ago, kingcool52 said:

Maybe it's just me but I'm 100% sure he mean't this in a sarcastic and attacking way. I love this guy for everything he did for us but is trying to make us hate him or something? 

I doubt it, he's basically described all of his title-winning sides.

It's Jose, he loves mind games, the majority of his comments are backhanded, he's always trying to provoke, this is a man who got fined for sarcasm. His comments on MOTD were ‘we can't play like other successful teams in the premier league’, as if we'd want to trade our philosophy for Man United's fake philosophy.

Jose once stated that managers who don't play on the counter are stupid, so I'm not sure what that says about him, since when has Jose had much success without playing on the counter? I love the man, but he's full of sh*t.