17 hours ago, timetowaste said:

Sorry guys but I can't agree that Alex Sandro is a 'bargain' at £55mil, for me I would much rather we spend the money on getting Bertrand back who would cost about half the price. Sandro is a little better but not 25mil better.

You'd be surprised. Bertrand's got four years left on his contract and Southampton don't have to sell.He's an English international and at 27 he's in his prime so he may fetch 35-40m in today's market easily. I agree that 55m is a lot even for a world class fullback but if I were to overpay, I'd rather do it for the for world class talent.

Damn y'all pretty harsh on Bertrand 

2 minutes ago, DidierDrogbalala said:

Damn y'all pretty harsh on Bertrand 

Not really, i'd say people massively overrate him. 

3 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

@Barrettinator we'll have to disagree he's world class and every FB who has won the CL the past 10 years are as well

I think the fact that only Milan were in for him this summer should tell you a lot but oh well.

18 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Even if we went after Ricardo Rodriguez it would have made us stronger and represented so much more value. 17m for him is such a bargain and idk how Milan did it. I'd rather have him for that than Sandro for 60 or even 50. 

I'm sorry but you'd rather spend 50-60m on a fullback for an almost relegated team in the Bundesliga than on a Champions League finalist who recently won a Double with the team that destroyed Barca and Monaco?

2 minutes ago, Deino said:

I'm sorry but you'd rather spend 50-60m on a fullback for an almost relegated team in the Bundesliga than on a Champions League finalist who recently won a Double with the team that destroyed Barca and Monaco?

He doesn't want to spend 50 mil on Rodriguez, he was available for 20 mill. He saying he wouldn't want to spend 50 on sandro 

14 minutes ago, Chigzzer said:

He doesn't want to spend 50 mil on Rodriguez, he was available for 20 mill. He saying he wouldn't want to spend 50 on sandro 

I know, but that was Milan who bid for RicRod. If it was us, you'd expect the price to go for 30+ hence my question is more towards if the price was similar, who'd he go for?

We're champions of England twice within 3 seasons but we should spend like a top 4 hopeful? People argue Alonso is not quick enough but RicRod who looks slower should be our choice?

We shouldn't overestimate Conte's ability to assemble good teams. Not when Utd is willing to spend serious cash in Jose's 2nd season and a serious Pep hoovering up attacking talents for City.

17 minutes ago, Deino said:

I know, but that was Milan who bid for RicRod. If it was us, you'd expect the price to go for 30+ hence my question is more towards if the price was similar, who'd he go for?

We're champions of England twice within 3 seasons but we should spend like a top 4 hopeful? People argue Alonso is not quick enough but RicRod who looks slower should be our choice?

We shouldn't overestimate Conte's ability to assemble good teams. Not when Utd is willing to spend serious cash in Jose's 2nd season and a serious Pep hoovering up attacking talents for City.

That's true but I don't feel like it be around 25 mill. But I want sandro 

40 minutes ago, Chigzzer said:

He doesn't want to spend 50 mil on Rodriguez, he was available for 20 mill. He saying he wouldn't want to spend 50 on sandro 

Don't worry, he's not spending anything.

I expect this is the absolute limit we'll reach. Didn't even expect us to bid this much but fair play. If they reject this one, we need to move on.

17 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

I expect this is the absolute limit we'll reach. Didn't even expect us to bid this much but fair play. If they reject this one, we need to move on.

That's a solid bid if true, and agree with you about moving on if not accepted. However, it is important to see what Sandro does now.

6 hours ago, Deino said:

I'm sorry but you'd rather spend 50-60m on a fullback for an almost relegated team in the Bundesliga than on a Champions League finalist who recently won a Double with the team that destroyed Barca and Monaco?

I'd rather spend 17m on him, the price he went to Milan for, and put the remaining 55 into another player. Especially considering it was a done deal weeks ago and not a drawn out process this seems to be heading toward. 

Edit: no of course I wouldn't want us to spend 50m on Rodriguez. Spending like a top 4 hopeful? United spent quite a bit of money last summer and look where that got them. We should only be in for expensive players now? Who operates that way and succeeds? 

Edited June 20, 20179 yr by TheChelseaBlues

6 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

I think the fact that only Milan were in for him this summer should tell you a lot but oh well.

It's alright, we have different opinions of what world class means.

Maybe he just chose Milan? I don't think it matters how many clubs were in for him but I doubt it was only Milan. Leicester were probably the only club in for Kante a few years ago, doesn't make him any less of a player. 

43 minutes ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

I'd rather spend 17m on him, the price he went to Milan for, and put the remaining 55 into another player. Especially considering it was a done deal weeks ago and not a drawn out process this seems to be heading toward. 

Edit: no of course I wouldn't want us to spend 50m on Rodriguez. Spending like a top 4 hopeful? United spent quite a bit of money last summer and look where that got them. We should only be in for expensive players now? Who operates that way and succeeds? 

What I meant by spending like a top 4 hopeful doesn't mean we keep buying expensive players. It means we buy quality players even if it means spending the big bucks instead of buying someone to fill the bench.

Lets say we buy Ric Rodriguez, Can he challenge/displace Alonso? He'd just occupy another space on the bench whereas Alex Sandro to me at least seems able to challenge for that starting left wingback slot. 

Utd and City have arguably one of the best squads, just because Pep doesn't believe in defence and Jose for some reason couldn't make his team click doesn't mean we can get complacent about it. 

1 hour ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

It's alright, we have different opinions of what world class means.

Maybe he just chose Milan? I don't think it matters how many clubs were in for him but I doubt it was only Milan. Leicester were probably the only club in for Kante a few years ago, doesn't make him any less of a player. 

Rodriguez hype has been all but dead for a while and with good reason. His overhyped performances started to tail off. Like I said, he's a solid LB. Definitely not world class. World class is Marcelo, Sandro, Luis, Alaba, etc. Rodriguez is not in that class. I'm sure the board and Conte knew he was attainable before deciding to spend 40 odd million more on Sandro. That should tell you all you need to know. But you're free to believe whatever.

15 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Rodriguez hype has been all but dead for a while and with good reason. His overhyped performances started to tail off. Like I said, he's a solid LB. Definitely not world class. World class is Marcelo, Sandro, Luis, Alaba, etc. Rodriguez is not in that class. I'm sure the board and Conte knew he was attainable before deciding to spend 40 odd million more on Sandro. That should tell you all you need to know. But you're free to believe whatever.

Rodriguez isn't world class. Again we disagree about the definition of that. I don't think we need two of those 4 to win the CL. Madrid won it a few years ago with Coentrao, Juve had Licksteiner against Barca and Dortmund got to the final with who? 

Everyone is attainable for the right price. Idk where you got 40 because they certainly didn't say yes to even 60m. I have no problem with the club supporting Conte, just the way we've gone about dealing with this transfer. They say no and we keep reaching into our pocket for more. Surely there is someone else who doesn't cost 70m, doesn't come with the extended negotiations and isn't that far off what Sandro brings. The same goes for the litany of other high profile transfers we've tried to make happen by jamming more and more money at it. Juve have caught on to how we operate and are making Roman pay for it. 

I guess it doesn't matter how much we end up playing as long as two people are OK with it

2 minutes ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Rodriguez isn't world class. Again we disagree about the definition of that. I don't think we need two of those 4 to win the CL. Madrid won it a few years ago with Coentrao, Juve had Licksteiner against Barca and Dortmund got to the final with who? 

Everyone is attainable for the right price. Idk where you got 40 because they certainly didn't say yes to even 60m. I have no problem with the club supporting Conte, just the way we've gone about dealing with this transfer. They say no and we keep reaching into our pocket for more. Surely there is someone else who doesn't cost 70m, doesn't come with the extended negotiations and isn't that far off what Sandro brings. The same goes for the litany of other high profile transfers we've tried to make happen by jamming more and more money at it. Juve have caught on to how we operate and are making Roman pay for it. 

I guess it doesn't matter how much we end up playing as long as two people are OK with it

First of all, Madrid took Coentrao off at half time because it was clearly a stupid decision to play him (especially when Marcelo had played most of the CL campaign). Marcelo was part of the reason they turned that game in their favour, he even scored. Lichsteiner has been quality for Juve and is only on the bench these days because of old age. And they didn't win it either. Also, notice how the Dortmund you mention lost against the team that had Alaba and Lahm?

And I didn't say we bid 40m. I said we overlooked Rodriguez and bid 40m MORE on Sandro (seeing as Rodriguez was 17m-20m). And no, there's almost no one else close to Sandro's quality who's available. Only person worth mentioning is Mendy who won't come cheap either. Again, not sure why you lot are complaining when we're trying to get quality. Would you prefer we keep buying the Djilobodjis of this world for 10m? Heavy spending is what set up our team between 2003-2010. Gave us a strong spine and all we had to do was add one or two players every other summer. 

If the club is making bids like this, it means we can handle it. So again, why are you complaining? Let them get in the best players they can for the team. It's not coming from either of our pockets.

46 minutes ago, Deino said:

What I meant by spending like a top 4 hopeful doesn't mean we keep buying expensive players. It means we buy quality players even if it means spending the big bucks instead of buying someone to fill the bench.

Lets say we buy Ric Rodriguez, Can he challenge/displace Alonso? He'd just occupy another space on the bench whereas Alex Sandro to me at least seems able to challenge for that starting left wingback slot. 

Utd and City have arguably one of the best squads, just because Pep doesn't believe in defence and Jose for some reason couldn't make his team click doesn't mean we can get complacent about it. 

Challenging Alonso isn't enough, for 70m he'd better be the 3rd name on the team sheet! I think there's no doubt buying Sandro would mean Alonso's role will be greatly reduced at WB. 

There are so many matches coming up and I'm saying you could split the load between two players according to what you need from the gameplan like Juve just did with Dani Alves. 

27 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

First of all, Madrid took Coentrao off at half time because it was clearly a stupid decision to play him (especially when Marcelo had played most of the CL campaign). Marcelo was part of the reason they turned that game in their favour, he even scored. Lichsteiner has been quality for Juve and is only on the bench these days because of old age. And they didn't win it either. Also, notice how the Dortmund you mention lost against the team that had Alaba and Lahm?

And I didn't say we bid 40m. I said we overlooked Rodriguez and bid 40m MORE on Sandro (seeing as Rodriguez was 17m-20m). And no, there's almost no one else close to Sandro's quality who's available. Only person worth mentioning is Mendy who won't come cheap either. Again, not sure why you lot are complaining when we're trying to get quality. Would you prefer we keep buying the Djilobodjis of this world for 10m? Heavy spending is what set up our team between 2003-2010. Gave us a strong spine and all we had to do was add one or two players every other summer. 

If the club is making bids like this, it means we can handle it. So again, why are you complaining? Let them get in the best players they can for the team. It's not coming from either of our pockets.

I was just making the point that you don't need two world beaters at fullback to get to or even win a CL final. I don't think Madrid have won it so much recently because they have Marcelo and Carvajal, they have a sh*t ton of other great players and some guy called Ronaldo. 

What does available mean tho? Have we bid 70m for anyone else? Are we sure Madrid wouldn't take 70 for Marcelo? Would that make him available? My point is Sandro wasn't being shopped around and neither are any other great LBs. He's not available if they keep saying no lol. I'm not in on the negotiating so maybe they told us yea he's available for 70m and we're just now offering that up. 

This started on my end by saying we don't need to convince Juve to sell if we can convince Sandro to want out. I'll be very interested to see the Lukaku fee and how far away it is from the 100m quoted by Everton after the player said he wanted out. I haven't seen anything from Sandro saying he wants out or would like to come join us. That would be the way to keep the fee down and shorten up negotiations. 

I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised not many seem to have a problem going through this saga again. I mean at what point do we stop? Big picture there's not much difference between 70 and 80. I've seen some say they think this will be the last bid but c'mon. If they say no to 70 but "we'll take 80" are we really turning them down? We seem very focused on Sandro is all when 70m could likely buy pretty much anyone except Alaba, Rose for obvious reasons and maybe Alba. If Alex Sandro is the only option in Contes mind then cool, let's do it. 

 

We're making this thread our own debate. Let's take this to PM if you want @Barrettinator @Deino

Edited June 21, 20179 yr by TheChelseaBlues

9 minutes ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

Rodriguez isn't world class. Again we disagree about the definition of that. I don't think we need two of those 4 to win the CL. Madrid won it a few years ago with Coentrao, Juve had Licksteiner against Barca and Dortmund got to the final with who? 

Everyone is attainable for the right price. Idk where you got 40 because they certainly didn't say yes to even 60m. I have no problem with the club supporting Conte, just the way we've gone about dealing with this transfer. They say no and we keep reaching into our pocket for more. Surely there is someone else who doesn't cost 70m, doesn't come with the extended negotiations and isn't that far off what Sandro brings. The same goes for the litany of other high profile transfers we've tried to make happen by jamming more and more money at it. Juve have caught on to how we operate and are making Roman pay for it. 

I guess it doesn't matter how much we end up playing as long as two people are OK with it

You do realize wingbacks aren't integral to the way they play right? Real has the BBC, Juve had Licht and Evra rotating throughout the season and  Dortmund had Schmelzer but again Klopp doesn't emphasize much on his fullbacks. We on the other hand need a wingback of a certain standard to even have a decent quality game, in the 343, wingbacks are crucial as you can see vs Utd this season where the team couldn't attack or defend properly. 

Of possible leftbacks include but not exclusive to De Sciglio, Cancelo, Alaba etc who are young and is rated this season but if we're going that route anyway, might as well we let the youth fill that gap if we aren't buying high quality players. What's the difference between buying RicRod and Baba? 

After the 15/16 season, we had Baba and Kenedy at LB with little to no expectation by the board to win the Prem thus Alonso was purchased but back then we couldn't offer much except for money. In a way Alonso was a top 4 hopeful signing because we were 10th and with Utd, City, Pool and Arse wanting to take the title from Leicester. Now that we're back again, we have to cement it with quality signings if it weren't for Conte we would not be challenging for trophies again for a long time. This season was make or break for us and now that we've gone over that hurdle, we have to keep moving forward. If they're going to fleece us anyway, might as well fleece us for top quality players. 

The only reason Juve kept driving up the prices is because there aren't many other options that they can get that would replace Sandro or else they would be glad to sell us Sandro for 60m don't you think?

If there Is a 2nd choice, then lets hope it won't be another Baba which landed us in this mess in the first place.

 

3 minutes ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

I was just making the point that you don't need two world beaters at fullback to get to or even win a CL final. I don't think Madrid have won it so much recently because they have Marcelo and Carvajal, they have a sh*t ton of other great players and some guy called Ronaldo. 

What does available mean tho? Have we bid 70m for anyone else? Are we sure Madrid wouldn't take 70 for Marcelo? Would that make him available? My point is Sandro wasn't being shopped around and neither are any other great LBs. He's not available if they keep saying no lol. I'm not in on the negotiating so maybe they told us yea he's available for 70m and we're just now offering that up. 

This started on my end by saying we don't need to convince Juve to sell if we can convince Sandro to want out. I'll be very interested to see the Lukaku fee and how far away it is from the 100m quoted by Everton after the player said he wanted out. I haven't seen anything from Sandro saying he wants out or would like to come join us. That would be the way to keep the fee down and shorten up negotiations. 

I'm not complaining, I'm just surprised not many seem to have a problem going through this saga again. I mean at what point do we stop? Big picture there's not much difference between 70 and 80. I've seen some say they think this will be the last bid but c'mon. If they say no to 70 but "we'll take 80" are we really turning them down? We seem very focused on Sandro is all when 70m could likely buy pretty much anyone except Alaba, Rose for obvious reasons and maybe Alba. If Alex Sandro is the only option in Contes mind then cool, let's do it. 

You should know Chelsea enough to know that this will be our last bid. When Juve asked us for 89m for Pogba after we'd submitted 75m, we walked away. We're not putting anything more than 75m down for Lukaku either, you just watch. 

And no, Madrid wouldn't let Marcelo go for any price, not least because he's one of Ronaldo's closest friends. And the small fact that he's the #1 LB in the world at the moment and they like having the best (which is what we're aspiring to right now). 

Also, how can you call this a saga when it's barely been on for a week or so? We've made 3 or 4 bids in that times span and this is likely our last bid. After this, it's up to Sandro to push for the move and if he doesn't, we'll likely offer Monaco something for Mendy (though I haven't seen us strongly linked with him).

Madrid obviously have quality all over the team but they don't win 3 CLs in 4 years without having the best full back pairing in world football. There's a lot of holes left by Ronaldo/Bale/Asensio that need cleaning up and those two have performed immensely in that regard.

We definitely need more wing backs. Very demanding role and they have to defend as well as attack. Bound to see injuries if you only have two and you overwork them.

We need a spare on the right as well as the left but maybe dave can do that job although better as central defender. Pedro can maybe do the job on the right.

Sandro has looked ok when I've seen him play, and yet Alonso was a revelation, in the air and going forward. Only Alonso's defense was at all questionable and maybe his speed. I think Sandro is faster.

I thought we would more likely be in for a RB before left because I agree Alonso was the better of the two. Yea maybe we'll use Dave more often there instead of dividing the responsibility on the left. Hazard playing on the left means more space to cover there

 

19 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

 

That's what they said the first time, unless this is it just being re-reported, but I think he want's to go as we are going to up his pay packet quite nicely. Kyle walker will be sold if city offer 45 mil apparently, if he is 45 then sando is deffo worth 55, mind you I wouldn't mind walker at all but as usual anyone will sell to city but not us for some reason.