Callum Hudson-Odoi

[Boston Blue]

1 hour ago, Vagabond said:

Fair enough, if that's your opinion. I must say that it's really hard for me to take anybody seriously that thinks CHO is as good or better than Willian and Pedro at this point in his career. Two or three years down the line, maybe, if he keeps working.

That being said I don't think a quality discussion between us is possible since we are obviously lightyears apart considering our assessment of Odoi. I simply can't see what he has done that would warrant the status he has with you and many other fans.

It's hard to argue that we play better as a team when CHO is on the field.  If I'm a defender, I am far more terrified of CHO than I am of Willian or Pedro.  I know what Willian or Pedro are going to do.  CHO is less predictable.  

In addition, he is the guy that is going to be part of this team for years, so it is in our best interest to get him acclimated and developed as soon as possible.  We're not going to lose more often when CHO plays., and we're not going to win more often if William or Pedro play instead.  But we'll definitely win more often next year and beyond with CHO, as long as he's with us.

[Ukraine Bolt]

16 hours ago, Vagabond said:

Fair enough, if that's your opinion. I must say that it's really hard for me to take anybody seriously that thinks CHO is as good or better than Willian and Pedro at this point in his career. Two or three years down the line, maybe, if he keeps working.

That being said I don't think a quality discussion between us is possible since we are obviously lightyears apart considering our assessment of Odoi. I simply can't see what he has done that would warrant the status he has with you and many other fans.

Would love to know what you think they do better than CHO?

CHO can take on his man consistently, the other two can't.

CHO has a better eye for goal than Willian, fair enough Pedro is probably better in this regard.

All three are poor defensively and weak in tracking back.

CHO has age on his side.

For what possible reason should Willian or Pedro start over him? Experience? Means very little when they offer next to nothing to our attack.

[Vagabond]

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Would love to know what you think they do better than CHO?

CHO can take on his man consistently, the other two can't.

CHO has a better eye for goal than Willian, fair enough Pedro is probably better in this regard.

All three are poor defensively and weak in tracking back.

CHO has age on his side. 

For what possible reason should Willian or Pedro start over him? Experience? Means very little when they offer next to nothing to our attack.

I know I'm not making friends with my comments, but I'm trying to see the player realistically instead of jumping on hype trains regarding players that didn't do anything special yet.

Pedro and Willian are both better technically, both have better vision and both retain posession better than CHO does. They both don't get discouraged as easily and Pedro especially is defensively lightyears ahead of CHO or did we already forget the game where Pedro tackled an opponent in our own box and saved our ass even after scoring one? You will never see that from CHO who honestly carries himself like he thinks he is like Eden already so he doesn't have to track back. That's the truth, wether you can see it or not. And it's fine, CHO is still a kid in my eyes and has plenty of time to evolve into a better player.

But I simply refuse to lead a discussion about wether CHO is en par or even ahead (LOL?!?) of those two. I know he has many fanboys at Chelsea, but that doesn't change footballing facts. I really hope Sarri won't cave in to the pressure anymore, since some people seem to be prepared to end the season with even less points just so Odoi has a place in the starting XI. Sure, if that's your opinion it's fine with me. Just admit it then and stand by it instead of acting like Odoi has anything on Willian or Pedro.

[Vagabond]

17 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

It's hard to argue that we play better as a team when CHO is on the field.  If I'm a defender, I am far more terrified of CHO than I am of Willian or Pedro.  I know what Willian or Pedro are going to do.  CHO is less predictable.  

In addition, he is the guy that is going to be part of this team for years, so it is in our best interest to get him acclimated and developed as soon as possible.  We're not going to lose more often when CHO plays., and we're not going to win more often if William or Pedro play instead.  But we'll definitely win more often next year and beyond with CHO, as long as he's with us.

How is it hard to argue when against Liverpool we suddenly started to have chances as soon as CHO left the pitch and Hazard went onto the wing? Literally the opposite of what you are claiming is hard to argue against happened.

Am I living in a parallel universe or are you?

[Vagabond]

18 hours ago, Nibs said:

But that's just it- he IS better.

Okay, maybe not EVERY game but if you've watched all three over a period of time (rather than just the Liverpool game), you will have seen that more often than not, Willian & Pedro flatter to deceive and actually give us very little whereas CHO can take defenders to the cleaners and provides us with so much more, especially a bit of genuine pace. Sure Willian and Pedro have the odd game where they play well but they are NOT the future, CHO is, hence the need to let him keep playing and to improve and learn from his mistakes - even if that does mean the odd ineffectual game now & again.

 

No, he isn't. If he is up against a fullback that can keep up with him he is out of ideas immediatly and completely ineffective, while both Pedro and Willian are a lot more flexible. Watch him more closely in the next games he plays, you will see. Of course that's partly due to his lack of experience as well, but it's a fact nonetheless.

[Nibs]

3 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

No, he isn't. If he is up against a fullback that can keep up with him he is out of ideas immediatly and completely ineffective, while both Pedro and Willian are a lot more flexible. Watch him more closely in the next games he plays, you will see. Of course that's partly due to his lack of experience as well, but it's a fact nonetheless.

He's 18 FFS!

He's had a handful of games. He is improving - Pedro & Willian are declining. That's a FACT.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Nibs

[Vagabond]

Just now, Nibs said:

He's 18 FFS!

He's had a handful of games. He is improving - Pedro & Willian are declining. That's a FACT.

He is and that's why I said (and why I hope) maybe 2 or 3 years down the line he will be better.

But he is not on their level at the moment, which is the reason I feel both Willian are Pedro are getting massively disrespected when some of you are claiming he offers more than they do even now. He doesn't. And that's the bottom line, no matter how mad all of you may get over it. You are the kind of guys that will gang up on Willian for the tiniest mistake only to live in denial when CHO does a lot worse. I just won't stand for that, sorry.

[MANoWAR]

Haha, you can  not stand for that as much as you want, CHO is always going to receive more attention given his talent and his possibility of leaving the club in a transfer ban. 

Nor does it change the fact that our other options are declining in  ability (nor was the standard world-class to begin with) and hence want to inject some new options . 

Not sure how you expect two or three years down the line to be better when he won't get to, you know, showcase why he is a better option for more than few games. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by MANoWAR

[Skinnedy]

25 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

But he is not on their level at the moment,

 

I'm quite confident that if Callum Hudson-Odoi had featured in 30 EPL matches this season, he would have more than 3 goals on the year... against teams in the bottom 1/3 of table. That's Willian's return on 30 games... 3. Freakin. Goals.

Only one of which either put Chelsea ahead or tied the match (Newcastle 2-1).

Willian is the one of the worst producing front three, not just in the Top 6, but really, all of the EPL. It's obvious that the 18 year old is going to be better than the 30 year old in 3 years, when he's already better. 

Willian 2018/2019 Season

Goals Against / Month / Day / Year, place in the table at the time

Newcastle 1/12/19 (18th)
Burnley 10/28/18 (15th)
Cardiff 9/15/18 (16th)

This doesn't even get into the argument at how stupid it is to struggle for Top 4 with the oldest lineup in the Top 6, with players who are either past 30 or out of contract. The lack of vision to build for the future is astounding. But forget that argument. Willian isn't good enough right now for the EPL. He has the (lack of ) goal record to prove it.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Skinnedy

[Ukraine Bolt]

@Vagabond following breakdown taken from Whoscored and Transfermarkt if you want to go check. I'll pick out a few points you made.

 

( I simply refuse to lead a discussion about wether CHO is en par or even ahead (LOL?!?) of those two. )

Goal scoring

Hudson-Odoi 6 goal in 21 games (1063 minutes) Goal every 177 minutes.

Willian 8 goals in 49 games (3183 minutes) Goal every 398 minutes.

Pedro 9 goals in 43 games (2479 minutes) Goal every 275 minutes.

 

( both have better vision )

Assists 

Hudson-Odoi 5 assists in 21 games (1063 minutes) assist every 212 minutes.

Willian 14 assists in 49 games (3183 minutes) assist every 227 minutes. Also takes every corner and freekick he's on the pitch.

Pedro 3 assists in 43 games (2479 minutes) assist every 823 minutes.

 

( both retain possession better )

Pass percentage

Hudson-Odoi pass percentage of 87.7%

Willian pass percentage of 85.3%

Pedro pass percentage of 87.1%

 

( Pedro especially is defensively lightyears ahead of CHO )

Tackles, Interceptions and Fouls

Hudson-Odoi - 0.8 tackles, 0.2 interceptions and 0.4 fouls per 90

Willian - 0.9 tackles, 0.5 interceptions and 0.5 fouls per 90

Pedro - 0.8 tackles, 0.6 interceptions and 0.6 fouls per 90

 

( Pedro and Willian are both better technically )

Dribbles

Hudson-Odoi completes 2.4 dribbles per 90.

Willian completes 1.6 dribbles per 90.

Pedro completes 1.5 dribbles per 90

 

To completely refute that CHO is so much worse than Willian and Pedro is just bizarre. 

[ForeverCarefree]

47 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

How is it hard to argue when against Liverpool we suddenly started to have chances as soon as CHO left the pitch and Hazard went onto the wing?

Because Hazard plays better when he's played in his best position? 

Hazard playing better ≠ CHO being subbed. 

[Vagabond]

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

@Vagabond following breakdown taken from Whoscored and Transfermarkt if you want to go check. I'll pick out a few points you made.

 

( I simply refuse to lead a discussion about wether CHO is en par or even ahead (LOL?!?) of those two. )

Goal scoring

Hudson-Odoi 6 goal in 21 games (1063 minutes) Goal every 177 minutes.

Willian 8 goals in 49 games (3183 minutes) Goal every 398 minutes.

Pedro 9 goals in 43 games (2479 minutes) Goal every 275 minutes.

 

( both have better vision )

Assists 

Hudson-Odoi 5 assists in 21 games (1063 minutes) assist every 212 minutes.

Willian 14 assists in 49 games (3183 minutes) assist every 227 minutes. Also takes every corner and freekick he's on the pitch.

Pedro 3 assists in 43 games (2479 minutes) assist every 823 minutes.

 

( both retain possession better )

Pass percentage

Hudson-Odoi pass percentage of 87.7%

Willian pass percentage of 85.3%

Pedro pass percentage of 87.1%

 

( Pedro especially is defensively lightyears ahead of CHO )

Tackles, Interceptions and Fouls

Hudson-Odoi - 0.8 tackles, 0.2 interceptions and 0.4 fouls per 90

Willian - 0.9 tackles, 0.5 interceptions and 0.5 fouls per 90

Pedro - 0.8 tackles, 0.6 interceptions and 0.6 fouls per 90

 

( Pedro and Willian are both better technically )

Dribbles

Hudson-Odoi completes 2.4 dribbles per 90.

Willian completes 1.6 dribbles per 90.

Pedro completes 1.5 dribbles per 90

 

To completely refute that CHO is so much worse than Willian and Pedro is just bizarre. 

 

Since you seem to love stats that much, here are a few pointers.

CHO didn't score even once in his 350 PL minutes and got a single assist in that time.

Except for against Brighton every single one of his scorers came at a point where the opposition was at least 2:0 down already and all of them were in the EL against the likes of PAOK Saloniki, Malmö or Kiev that had stellar aggregate records of 5:1 or 8:0 against us.

There is a difference between the round of 16 in the EL and a mid table PL team.

[Vagabond]

23 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Because Hazard plays better when he's played in his best position? 

Hazard playing better ≠ CHO being subbed. 

Since you wrote a post back that it's hard to take me seriously, why exactly are you even responding to me? How about you sod off and just put me on your ignore list so you don't get triggered by my opinion and I don't get dumbfounded by yours? *edit* You're also the guy that thought CHO should've stayed on the pitch and Willian taken off, no?

Edited April 18, 2019 by Vagabond
I have little patience for stupidity

[ForeverCarefree]

17 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Since you wrote a post back that it's hard to take me seriously, why exactly are you even responding to me? 

Why do people go to the circus but to laugh at the clowns? 

Just because I don't take your passive aggressive replies seriously doesn't mean that I can't derive entertainment from them. 

[Skinnedy]

40 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Since you seem to love stats that much, here are a few pointers.

There is a difference between the round of 16 in the EL and a mid table PL team.

Against teams currently sitting 13th or better in the EPL Table

Willian - 15 Starts / 18 Appearances / 1178 Minutes

0 Goals / 2 Assists 

I agree, Willian isn't cut out to play in a front three against mid-table or better EPL competition. He'd have been better off emulating Marcello

 

[Vagabond]

37 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Why do people go to the circus but to laugh at the clowns? 

Just because I don't take your passive aggressive replies seriously doesn't mean that I can't derive entertainment from them. 

Kruger Dunning in full effect.
I guess Sarri is a clown as well for *not* taking off Willian instead of CHO?

Edited April 18, 2019 by Vagabond

[Vagabond]

3 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Against teams currently sitting 13th or better in the EPL Table

Willian - 15 Starts / 18 Appearances / 1178 Minutes

0 Goals / 2 Assists 

I agree, Willian isn't cut out to play in a front three against mid-table or better EPL competition. He'd have been better off emulating Marcello

 

Neither is CHO, but we'll have to make due with what we have.

[chiefBlueCFC]

Willian's end product isn't there typically. He does well to create chances but has squandered a lot of them. Pedro is incredibly streaky. When he is in good form, it is very good. But too often he disappears for too long.

CHO is 18 whilst the other two are 31 (I believe, both are over 30). Does CHO still have a lot of room to develop and become better? Abso-freaking-lutely, but Chelsea are more dangerous with him on the pitch. You can see it plain as day. And Sarri has to realize that Hazard isn't as effective when he is playing as a false 9. And if he is going to play Hazard as a false 9, he should play CHO on the left and Willian/Pedro on the right. But let's be honest, Hazard should be on the left.

[Ukraine Bolt]

3 hours ago, Vagabond said:

 

Since you seem to love stats that much, here are a few pointers.

CHO didn't score even once in his 350 PL minutes and got a single assist in that time.

Except for against Brighton every single one of his scorers came at a point where the opposition was at least 2:0 down already and all of them were in the EL against the likes of PAOK Saloniki, Malmö or Kiev that had stellar aggregate records of 5:1 or 8:0 against us.

There is a difference between the round of 16 in the EL and a mid table PL team.

350 PL minutes pmsl, according to Willian's goal per 90 he wouldn't have scored in that time either.

[Slojo]

5 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

@Vagabond following breakdown taken from Whoscored and Transfermarkt if you want to go check. I'll pick out a few points you made.

 

( I simply refuse to lead a discussion about wether CHO is en par or even ahead (LOL?!?) of those two. )

Goal scoring

Hudson-Odoi 6 goal in 21 games (1063 minutes) Goal every 177 minutes.

Willian 8 goals in 49 games (3183 minutes) Goal every 398 minutes.

Pedro 9 goals in 43 games (2479 minutes) Goal every 275 minutes.

 

( both have better vision )

Assists 

Hudson-Odoi 5 assists in 21 games (1063 minutes) assist every 212 minutes.

Willian 14 assists in 49 games (3183 minutes) assist every 227 minutes. Also takes every corner and freekick he's on the pitch.

Pedro 3 assists in 43 games (2479 minutes) assist every 823 minutes.

 

( both retain possession better )

Pass percentage

Hudson-Odoi pass percentage of 87.7%

Willian pass percentage of 85.3%

Pedro pass percentage of 87.1%

 

( Pedro especially is defensively lightyears ahead of CHO )

Tackles, Interceptions and Fouls

Hudson-Odoi - 0.8 tackles, 0.2 interceptions and 0.4 fouls per 90

Willian - 0.9 tackles, 0.5 interceptions and 0.5 fouls per 90

Pedro - 0.8 tackles, 0.6 interceptions and 0.6 fouls per 90

 

( Pedro and Willian are both better technically )

Dribbles

Hudson-Odoi completes 2.4 dribbles per 90.

Willian completes 1.6 dribbles per 90.

Pedro completes 1.5 dribbles per 90

 

To completely refute that CHO is so much worse than Willian and Pedro is just bizarre. 

And to top that off, this guy isn't even in his prime yet, nowhere near, we get a great youth prospect who can improve as the game goes on. 

What do we get out of playing Willian and Pedro? 

[Bloo]

14 hours ago, Slojo said:

And to top that off, this guy isn't even in his prime yet, nowhere near, we get a great youth prospect who can improve as the game goes on. 

What do we get out of playing Willian and Pedro? 

Well, last night Pedro scored 2.5 (haha) goals and an assist whereas during his cameo CHO looked like he was auditioning for the latest Zombie-fest movie (and he wasn't much better vs LFC at the weekend).

[Munkunku]

1 minute ago, Bloo said:

Well, last night Pedro scored 2.5 (haha) goals and an assist whereas during his cameo CHO looked like he was auditioning for the latest Zombie-fest movie (and he wasn't much better vs LFC at the weekend).

Pedro scored his goals when we were dominating the game and had 86 minutes on the pitch compared to CHO who had 7 minutes when we were trying hard to run down the clock. 

You cant compare them with last nights match. 

[Ukraine Bolt]

4 hours ago, Bloo said:

Well, last night Pedro scored 2.5 (haha) goals and an assist whereas during his cameo CHO looked like he was auditioning for the latest Zombie-fest movie (and he wasn't much better vs LFC at the weekend).

Pedro and Willian have been dropping 2/10 performances like that for a full 90 minutes all season.

[Lucashm]

I dont like him.

The fact that we have bent ourselves over for this kid, gave him every sign that we value him A LOT, by offering him a ton of money, as well as plenty of game time, something that has been unprecedent at this football club, for a player as young as he is and coming from our academy , and yet, there are still loads of rumours that this kid STILL wants to leave, makes me think that he is an ungrateful sod, especially considering he's been with us since he was 8

[ducavis]

6 hours ago, Lucashm said:

I dont like him.

The fact that we have bent ourselves over for this kid, gave him every sign that we value him A LOT, by offering him a ton of money, as well as plenty of game time, something that has been unprecedent at this football club, for a player as young as he is and coming from our academy , and yet, there are still loads of rumours that this kid STILL wants to leave, makes me think that he is an ungrateful sod, especially considering he's been with us since he was 8

Where did you get this from that he is going? I feel it has gone quiet on his transfer front, and it’s a case of wait & see what happens in the summer regarding Hazard, Willian & Pedro. I reckon he would sign a new contract if 2 of the above (fingers crossed the latter 2) were let go.

I also feel Bayern have moved on as there are now potentially more options available for transfer. Thorgan Hazard, Sancho, Felix, Neres, Lugano, Brandt, Pepe, Dybala, a few Madrid players and even Sane might be all all moving on.

Edited April 21, 2019 by ducavis