28 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

 

Sarri can't do nothing right. He's made CHO a first team player this year. First team. 

 

Sarri hasn't made CHO a first team player.   Hudson-Odoi is playing because the team is better when he plays.  He is more threatening than Willian & Pedro on most days.  

Yeah, the kid has confidence and wants to play.  He sits on the bench and cringes when he sees some of the performances of the players in his position, in much the same way we all cringe when watching them.  And he's pushing because, for 10 years at Chelsea, he's NEVER seen an Academy product get promoted to a regular first team spot.  

28 minutes ago, Boston Blue said:

Sarri hasn't made CHO a first team player.   Hudson-Odoi is playing because the team is better when he plays.  He is more threatening than Willian & Pedro on most days.  

Yeah, the kid has confidence and wants to play.  He sits on the bench and cringes when he sees some of the performances of the players in his position, in much the same way we all cringe when watching them.  And he's pushing because, for 10 years at Chelsea, he's NEVER seen an Academy product get promoted to a regular first team spot.  

But he's played...chicken and egg right!

5 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

But he's played...chicken and egg right!

He has.  But an effective coach doesn't sit him after a mediocre performance, especially when he was put in a lineup that didn't play to his strengths.  A coach would point out where he could improve, and send him back out to play.  I'm just not convinced Sarri has the man management ability to do this.

 

 

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

But what's the alternative? 

CHO struggled to make an impact away from home against the team with the best defensive record in the league. 

Willian and Pedro meanwhile were abysmal midweek against Prague.  

CHO didn't have a great game yesterday but he was always going to struggle. He looks best when he can get to the byline and whip in crosses to the centre forward... Biggest problem is, we didn't have a centre forward. 

I dare say including games with the academy you could count the number of times he's played in a false 9 set up in a competitive match on one hand.  

If Cal is still not ready for such high profile games i would rather roll out Willian and Pedro (or their replacements) till he is. It's not really about who's better but more who has more to lose by being poor, Pedro and Willy have had their days in the sun so even if they stink out the rest of the games in their career it means little in the grand scheme of things, if CHO keeps ghosting big games at some point self doubt will creep in which is a very dangerous ball game for a youngster, case in point, look at how Christensen's horror shows against Barcax2, United and City in short time affected him.

I've got every faith in CHO long term, but i don't think throwing him in such high profile games rn is doing wonders for his development because he's looked lost against pretty much everyone's he's faced from Wolves/Watford upwards. 

Edited April 15, 20197 yr by Argo

2 hours ago, bisright1 said:

CHO keeps his place by default. But that's not what I want from a player who publicly demands he is good enough to be a first team Chelsea player. He should keep his place because no one's taking it off him. 

I suspect he won't be a Chelsea player in 18 months time anyway. 

When did CHO publicly demand anything?

He apparently wanted to leave because he wasn’t getting any first team minutes despite being as good as those getting picked ahead of him. 

Now he’s getting frequent minutes he may want to stay.

38 minutes ago, Argo said:

If Cal is still not ready for such high profile games i would rather roll out Willian and Pedro (or their replacements) till he is. It's not really about who's better but more who has more to lose by being poor, Pedro and Willy have had their days in the sun so even if they stink out the rest of the games in their career it means little in the grand scheme of things, if CHO keeps ghosting big games at some point self doubt will creep in which is a very dangerous ball game for a youngster, 

Counter argument. 

If we’re going into games like the Liverpool one knowing we’re second best CHO will learn a lot more playing against the very best and will improve as a player, even in defeat.

He had a bad game against Liverpool, so what? He’s 18 he’s learning and he’ll take a lot away from that experience and hopefully use it as a means of going into the next big game better prepared. If he’s too mentally fragile to handle bad games he’ll never make it anyway. 

Playing Willian and Pedro but still losing, we gain nothing, we learn nothing. 

We concede our first goal because Willian doesn't jump for a free header against Fabinho. At least CHO can get at people, genuinely can't think of one thing Willian did yesterday, other than make space on the edge of the box and still fail to hit the target with his shot.
Gnabry has looked good but CHO gets in ahead of Coman with ease, there's a reason they were willing to spend £40m on him. 

If you think CHO was better than Willian yesterday, I will wholeheartedly agree you CHO's biggest fan EVER!

Yeah he didn't have a great game, but what did he do that Willian couldn't? That's been the major criticism, for a youngster with lack of experience he still provides just as much as Willian and Pedro do if not more, this kid has potential, keep playing him. 

A poor game yesterday and a quiet game against west ham. 

But it's all about experience and having patience to let youngsters make mistakes. No point wanting a rookie to play if you dont cut them some serious slack. 

I think he should be starting every game between now and the end of the season, hopefully it will put him in a good position in his develop to really kick on next season. 

Nothing to worry about his performance.
Playing against the best team in the league and a team that played in the CL final last season isn't easy and acceptable. Especially when we were defending since the first minute.
Sarri should keep playing him until the end of the season.

Am fine with him starting in all our home games, but I will be disappointed with Sarri if he starts at Old Trafford against United.

His inexperience showed yesterday, but the only way we can improve that is by keeping him on the starting line up.
For his ability, I don’t think there is much he could have done yesterday. Only Hazard looked like creating something and he’s one of the world’s best.

Trust me, CHO could have help us salvage something if he was well used against Liverpool. He never should have started that game in the first place, a better manager would have started that game with a much experience player in Pedro.
Do you remember that time in the second half when Hazard was moved to the wings and he was continuously threatening the Liverpool defence which resulted in him missing two chances to put us back in the game, just imagine CHO and Giroud were introduced into the game at that point, I believe we possible could have got back in the game if we managed to get a goal around the 70th minute. The chances Hazard had shows that if the Liverpool defence are well pressed in that second half they can be vulnerable, and CHO could have been brought on in the second half simply for that task, unfortunately he was already tired at that time. And that's BAD MANAGEMENT from Sarri if you ask me.

1 hour ago, wallosh said:

Am fine with him starting in all our home games, but I will be disappointed with Sarri if he starts at Old Trafford against United.

He's not going to learn and develop if he plays against weaker sides and has an easy time of it.  Where he'll learn is trying to figure out how to beat the better, more experienced, more savvy defenders.  He's going to encounter rough treatment, double teams, tackles, physical play, and world class players.  The sooner he learns how to deal with these, the faster he'll improve.

Damned if you do damned if you dont. 

Start him and we lose then he never should be playing against such opposition. Dont start him and then we lose and we hear how rubbish Willian and Pedro are and CHO should have started.

He is young and will get better with games. So will RLC who, while 5 years older, is behind in his development due to injury.

I appreciate Sarri is giving these boys a chance whereas previous managers ignored most young players in favour of the "safe" options. I may not agree with a lot of Sarris choices however in this case he is helping our future at least.

Sarri has rotated in Christensen who Conte binned when he started making mistakes, Ampadu was starting to get a look in before his back/growing pains, now RLC and CHO are starting games.

If Sarri keeps that up it strikes one big cord for me in him staying. The other needs to be winning the Europa league. 

He's not going to learn and develop if he plays against weaker sides and has an easy time of it.  Where he'll learn is trying to figure out how to beat the better, more experienced, more savvy defenders.  He's going to encounter rough treatment, double teams, tackles, physical play, and world class players.  The sooner he learns how to deal with these, the faster he'll improve.

We have to blend him in. If playing CHO will lose us any game right now, I won't risk it. I had rather we play in the champions league next season over giving CHO game time just for the sake of him getting experience.

15 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Counter argument. 

If we’re going into games like the Liverpool one knowing we’re second best CHO will learn a lot more playing against the very best and will improve as a player, even in defeat.

He had a bad game against Liverpool, so what? He’s 18 he’s learning and he’ll take a lot away from that experience and hopefully use it as a means of going into the next big game better prepared. If he’s too mentally fragile to handle bad games he’ll never make it anyway.  

Playing Willian and Pedro but still losing, we gain nothing, we learn nothing.  

Are you seriously advocating a weaker starting lineup against rivals just so a single player has the chance to "take away from that experience"? What the hell is going on?

Sorry, I prefer going into games with a higher chance of winning, especially against Liverpool. It was a gamble by Sarri and it failed. Hazard should've been on the wing from the start and CHO should've been on the bench where he belongs at the moment, with maybe some minutes at the end. We are not playing for CHO, he is playing for us.

But that's just me I guess.

38 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Are you seriously advocating a weaker starting lineup against rivals just so a single player has the chance to "take away from that experience"? What the hell is going on?

Sorry, I prefer going into games with a higher chance of winning, especially against Liverpool. It was a gamble by Sarri and it failed. Hazard should've been on the wing from the start and CHO should've been on the bench where he belongs at the moment, with maybe some minutes at the end. We are not playing for CHO, he is playing for us.

But that's just me I guess.

Not sure how you've drawn the conclusion I am advocating picking a weaker starting line up? Or that I think CHO playing should come before the best interests of the team? 

I've said already that I think CHO is as good as, if not a better option than Willian and Pedro. 

My post is saying that avoiding picking him against big sides due to his lack of experience is wrong and that even if he plays poorly in those sorts of matches we should be patient with him and expect him to take away valuable experience from it. 

CHO didn't have a great game, but we have to keep playing him over Willian and Pedro. The experience he'd have gained from playing in that match is invaluable. 

I think Sarri got it wrong by playing CHO on the right - he should have been on the left where he is most dangerous and Willian or even Pedro should have played on the right.

Edited April 16, 20197 yr by DannyVblue

3 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

CHO didn't have a great game, but we have to keep playing him over Willian and Pedro. The experience he'd have gained from playing in that match is invaluable. 

I think Sarri got it wrong by playing CHO on the right - he should have been on the left where he is most dangerous and Willian or even Pedro should have played on the right.

Agree Danny, he only seemed to want to cut in from the right and never go down to the bye-line, given that Hazard was our only front man yet he could have cut it back.

I think he would be better on the Left though of course it is normally Hazard's spot.

Edited April 16, 20197 yr by strider6004

22 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Agree Danny, he only seemed to want to cut in from the right and never go down to the bye-line, given that Hazard was our only front man yet he could have cut it back.

I think he would be better on the Left though of course it is normally Hazard's spot.

I think CHO has been more effective on the left, but I also think the main thing Sarri got wrong was not starting Giroud. We would have been far more effective with Hazard on the wing and a natural center forward. Giroud links up well with the other attacking players too.

56 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I think CHO has been more effective on the left, but I also think the main thing Sarri got wrong was not starting Giroud. We would have been far more effective with Hazard on the wing and a natural center forward. Giroud links up well with the other attacking players too.

Totally agree about Giroud, he seems to panic opposition defenders.

23 hours ago, Boston Blue said:

Sarri hasn't made CHO a first team player.   Hudson-Odoi is playing because the team is better when he plays.  He is more threatening than Willian & Pedro on most days.  

Yeah, the kid has confidence and wants to play.  He sits on the bench and cringes when he sees some of the performances of the players in his position, in much the same way we all cringe when watching them.  And he's pushing because, for 10 years at Chelsea, he's NEVER seen an Academy product get promoted to a regular first team spot.  

I think he is on a par with Willian and Pedro yet of course has more potential because of his age and perhaps pace.

We can't compare exactly as they are all slightly different players.  Willian and Pedro have both had moments this season yet also inconsistent and CHO has rarely been impressive on the Right for me. Note, Willian often plays on the Right though is also better on the Left.

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

I think CHO has been more effective on the left, but I also think the main thing Sarri got wrong was not starting Giroud. We would have been far more effective with Hazard on the wing and a natural center forward. Giroud links up well with the other attacking players too.

Problem was, apart from that 10 minute spell after the second goal, all our openings came on the break, in theory it sounds better but in practice we would have just had the ball coming back at us because OG couldn't get up on time, think the Cup final last season when we allowed a Jose team to dominate possession.

He should have come on instead of Higuain but starting a player without any pace would have been suicide given our game plan.

On 16/04/2019 at 12:34, ForeverCarefree said:

Not sure how you've drawn the conclusion I am advocating picking a weaker starting line up? Or that I think CHO playing should come before the best interests of the team? 

I've said already that I think CHO is as good as, if not a better option than Willian and Pedro. 

My post is saying that avoiding picking him against big sides due to his lack of experience is wrong and that even if he plays poorly in those sorts of matches we should be patient with him and expect him to take away valuable experience from it. 

Fair enough, if that's your opinion. I must say that it's really hard for me to take anybody seriously that thinks CHO is as good or better than Willian and Pedro at this point in his career. Two or three years down the line, maybe, if he keeps working.

That being said I don't think a quality discussion between us is possible since we are obviously lightyears apart considering our assessment of Odoi. I simply can't see what he has done that would warrant the status he has with you and many other fans.

11 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Fair enough, if that's your opinion. I must say that it's really hard for me to take anybody seriously that thinks CHO is as good or better than Willian and Pedro at this point in his career. Two or three years down the line, maybe, if he keeps working.

That being said I don't think a quality discussion between us is possible since we are obviously lightyears apart considering our assessment of Odoi. I simply can't see what he has done that would warrant the status he has with you and many other fans.

I find it hard to take people seriously who write posts like this.

15 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Fair enough, if that's your opinion. I must say that it's really hard for me to take anybody seriously that thinks CHO is as good or better than Willian and Pedro at this point in his career. Two or three years down the line, maybe, if he keeps working.

That being said I don't think a quality discussion between us is possible since we are obviously lightyears apart considering our assessment of Odoi. I simply can't see what he has done that would warrant the status he has with you and many other fans.

But that's just it- he IS better.

Okay, maybe not EVERY game but if you've watched all three over a period of time (rather than just the Liverpool game), you will have seen that more often than not, Willian & Pedro flatter to deceive and actually give us very little whereas CHO can take defenders to the cleaners and provides us with so much more, especially a bit of genuine pace. Sure Willian and Pedro have the odd game where they play well but they are NOT the future, CHO is, hence the need to let him keep playing and to improve and learn from his mistakes - even if that does mean the odd ineffectual game now & again.