18 hours ago, abramovich said:

At this point? Nothing. If there were any questions about Chelsea making it into the top four they were answered today. We won't win the Europa League either, there are better sides than us still in the competition.

Just play on the youngsters and ship Sarri back to Italy when it's all over.

Well gee, thank you for clearing that up for everyone.

The top 4 is going to be hard, but still entirely possible.

The Europa is there for the taking, and even if you think there are "better sides" left in it (debateable), that doesn't really mean a lot in a knock out competition. Pretty much every side we faced in 2012 was a "better side" and look how that one panned out.

I am all for playing the youth, but to suggest at this point that we have nothing to lose is plain stupid.

 

20 minutes ago, mclovin83 said:

Well gee, thank you for clearing that up for everyone.

The top 4 is going to be hard, but still entirely possible.

The Europa is there for the taking, and even if you think there are "better sides" left in it (debateable), that doesn't really mean a lot in a knock out competition. Pretty much every side we faced in 2012 was a "better side" and look how that one panned out.

I am all for playing the youth, but to suggest at this point that we have nothing to lose is plain stupid.

 

The top four was entirely in our hands last night, because if we were to win all remaining games no other team could do anything about it. It was a must win game and Sarri bottled it, plain and simple. Now we still have to win everything but also rely on Arsenal to drop points. We are yet to play at Goodison, Old Trafford and Anfield and given how inconsistent and mentally fragile we are, I'm fairly sure we won't finish in the top four. Not because we've got worse squad than MU, Spurs or Arse, they all have their own flaws, but rather because our manager is clueless, tactically naive and cannot get the best out of the players he's got.

Europa League is indeed a cup competition, there's plenty left to play and we haven't faced any serious opponent yet.

1 minute ago, abramovich said:

The top four was entirely in our hands last night, because if we were to win all remaining games no other team could do anything about it. It was a must win game and Sarri bottled it, plain and simple. Now we still have to win everything but also rely on Arsenal to drop points. We are yet to play at Goodison, Old Trafford and Anfield and given how inconsistent and mentally fragile we are, I'm fairly sure we won't finish in the top four. Not because we've got worse squad than MU, Spurs or Arse, they all have their own flaws, but rather because our manager is clueless, tactically naive and cannot get the best out of the players he's got.

Europa League is indeed a cup competition, there's plenty left to play and we haven't faced any serious opponent yet.

I personally think we will most likely come up short for top 4, but I certainly hope we give it everything until the end though as there won't be much in it, I am sure of that. So yeah, I don't go along with the statement that we have "nothing to lose".

I agree yesterday was a must win, we needed those extra 2 points in the hunt for the top 4.

Out of interest, in what makes you say Sarri "bottled it"? What was it he did yesterday that was him bottling it?

3 minutes ago, mclovin83 said:

I personally think we will most likely come up short for top 4, but I certainly hope we give it everything until the end though as there won't be much in it, I am sure of that. So yeah, I don't go along with the statement that we have "nothing to lose".

I agree yesterday was a must win, we needed those extra 2 points in the hunt for the top 4.

Out of interest, in what makes you say Sarri "bottled it"? What was it he did yesterday that was him bottling it?

How about the same lineup and the same tactics, that proved ineffective in the league time and again? How long did it take us to create a goalscoring opportunity last night? To have a shot on goal? We've had all the possession and did absolutely f**k all with it 90% of the match. Wolves knew our setup long before the game started, they could start preparing for it months in advance and it wouldn't change a thing. Espirito Santo did his homework on Chelsea and Sarri clearly has no clue how to make adjustments, because week after week he sends the same team to play exactly the same way, no matter who the opposition is. Does he even bother to analyze opponents prior to matches, I wonder, because it doesn't look that way. This time we were saved at the last moment by Hazard's individual brilliance, otherwise it would have been a loss.

He's the manager. If something isn't working, adapt. He said Jorginho was ineffective because players around him didn't move without the ball. But whose fault is that they aren't doing what they're supposed to? Who's coaching them? He keeps talking that Jorginho is essential to his tactical system, well guess what, for whatever reason your system is failing in the PL, and your key player is struggling, so do something to address it. Send Jorginho to the bench, change the setup. Bring in Giroud and go direct with long balls. f**king do something, and don't wait till the last moment to do it . 

He did try something different with RLC and CHO subs last night, to be fair, but it was a case of too little, too late. His timing is terrible, like I said before, Sarri's never been under such pressure in his career before so he doesn't know how to react, when things don't go as planned. And the team is the reflection of its manager, clueless, frustrated and exhausted.

2 hours ago, mclovin83 said:

Well gee, thank you for clearing that up for everyone.

The top 4 is going to be hard, but still entirely possible.

The Europa is there for the taking, and even if you think there are "better sides" left in it (debateable), that doesn't really mean a lot in a knock out competition. Pretty much every side we faced in 2012 was a "better side" and look how that one panned out.

I am all for playing the youth, but to suggest at this point that we have nothing to lose is plain stupid.

 

Not being funny but to even draw comparisons between the squad and the menatility of the squad we had in 2012 when we won the champions league and now now is ridiculous. It’s night and day between the two squads.

23 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Not being funny but to even draw comparisons between the squad and the menatility of the squad we had in 2012 when we won the champions league and now now is ridiculous. It’s night and day between the two squads.

It's not ridiculous at all for the point I was making, which was simply that the better team (on paper), doesn't always prevail in a knock out competition.

 

Just now, mclovin83 said:

It's not ridiculous at all for the point I was making, which was simply that the better team (on paper), doesn't always prevail in a knock out competition.

 

The idea that this team could do something similar is though, you need character and leaders for that. We lack both, severely. I agree the better team doesn’t always prevail but winning the EL is a massive ask for this team. Whenever we concede first do you ever truly feel we’ll get back in to it? 

1 hour ago, abramovich said:

How about the same lineup and the same tactics, that proved ineffective in the league time and again? How long did it take us to create a goalscoring opportunity last night? To have a shot on goal? We've had all the possession and did absolutely f**k all with it 90% of the match. Wolves knew our setup long before the game started, they could start preparing for it months in advance and it wouldn't change a thing. Espirito Santo did his homework on Chelsea and Sarri clearly has no clue how to make adjustments, because week after week he sends the same team to play exactly the same way, no matter who the opposition is. Does he even bother to analyze opponents prior to matches, I wonder, because it doesn't look that way. This time we were saved at the last moment by Hazard's individual brilliance, otherwise it would have been a loss.

He's the manager. If something isn't working, adapt. He said Jorginho was ineffective because players around him didn't move without the ball. But whose fault is that they aren't doing what they're supposed to? Who's coaching them? He keeps talking that Jorginho is essential to his tactical system, well guess what, for whatever reason your system is failing in the PL, and your key player is struggling, so do something to address it. Send Jorginho to the bench, change the setup. Bring in Giroud and go direct with long balls. f**king do something, and don't wait till the last moment to do it . 

He did try something different with RLC and CHO subs last night, to be fair, but it was a case of too little, too late. His timing is terrible, like I said before, Sarri's never been under such pressure in his career before so he doesn't know how to react, when things don't go as planned. And the team is the reflection of its manager, clueless, frustrated and exhausted.

So what line up and tactics would you have gone with?

Personally I would liked to have seen RLC in for Kovacic, and CHO in for Pedro, which would have represented our most attacking line up. Other than that, I was happy with the team. I thought we looked more of a threat with RLC, but CHO was no major improvement on Pedro when he came on in my opinion.

I agree, I would also have thrown Giroud on and put more balls into the box, especially in the final quarter of the game when we were struggling to penetrate them.

I thought his subs were alright yesterday though, although if I would have introduced RLC at half time.

Wolves are a good side, came with a game plan, executed it very efficiently, and took their one chance.

It was a frustrating game, but I didn't personally think Sarri did too much wrong. It was just one of those days.

I get some people have no faith in him though, and on occasion he certainly doesn't help himself.

I have criticised him recently, but like I say, I didn't think he did too much wrong yesterday and wouldn't have said the reason we lost was him bottling it.

 

2 hours ago, mclovin83 said:

Personally I would liked to have seen RLC in for Kovacic, and CHO in for Pedro, which would have represented our most attacking line up. Other than that, I was happy with the team. I thought we looked more of a threat with RLC, but CHO was no major improvement on Pedro when he came on in my opinion.

Exactly this, anticipate the opposition. They do it enough with us. Wolves have a good record  against the top six, they have parked the bus in all the other games. Go with your most attacking team, players comfortable with running with the ball and able to get to the byline to whip in crosses( this has always been the answer against teams who sit deep). As it was he went with our least creative midfield and Pedro who thrives more on space. RLC and CHO came on when the die was cast but both made a contribution. CHO whipped in a couple of good crosses and RLC was a threat on the ball. Sarri needs to up his game a bit every bit as much as the team. Yesterday to his credit he did try something different, though the tempo of the match had been set. How nice would it have been for him to be pro active at the start and trust two young members of the squad who haven't let him down previously, whilst giving others the much needed rest he is complaining they lack.

3 hours ago, mclovin83 said:

So what line up and tactics would you have gone with?

Personally I would liked to have seen RLC in for Kovacic, and CHO in for Pedro, which would have represented our most attacking line up. Other than that, I was happy with the team. I thought we looked more of a threat with RLC, but CHO was no major improvement on Pedro when he came on in my opinion.

I agree, I would also have thrown Giroud on and put more balls into the box, especially in the final quarter of the game when we were struggling to penetrate them.

I thought his subs were alright yesterday though, although if I would have introduced RLC at half time.

Wolves are a good side, came with a game plan, executed it very efficiently, and took their one chance.

It was a frustrating game, but I didn't personally think Sarri did too much wrong. It was just one of those days.

I get some people have no faith in him though, and on occasion he certainly doesn't help himself.

I have criticised him recently, but like I say, I didn't think he did too much wrong yesterday and wouldn't have said the reason we lost was him bottling it.

 

I would have started with Giroud personally. He is in better form and knows the league. Higuain may be a much better fit for Sarri's system but he's clearly lacking match fitness. 

Playing a more direct style of football could help liven things up a bit. I know it may go against Sarri's idea of how football should be played but once in a while, when you realize all the intricate passing isn't getting you anywhere fast, you may try to use the old 'long ball to the striker' route. Or at least when you have someone like Giroud in the box, putting crosses in actually makes sense because he's big, strong and tall enough to connect with a few of those. That alone creates another potential problem fopr the opponents. Start RLC in place of Kovacic/barkley, see how that changes our midfield dynamic. 

Also, what's with our fullbacks not being able to cross the ball? It's embarrassing to watch. Possession football requires a good use of wide players, they're essential to stretching the opposition, just look how good City are at it. I know they have better players and Pep's had more time, but my point is, there must be more to Sarriball than we've seen so far because otherwise it's a big joke.

P.S. I said he bottled it because we had an advantage over our top three rivals before last night's game. Now we don't. We rely on others dropping points. We needed that win and not for the first time this season, he failed to deliver. It's a bottle job.

 

Edited March 11, 20197 yr by abramovich

14 hours ago, abramovich said:

I would have started with Giroud personally. He is in better form and knows the league. Higuain may be a much better fit for Sarri's system but he's clearly lacking match fitness. 

Playing a more direct style of football could help liven things up a bit. I know it may go against Sarri's idea of how football should be played but once in a while, when you realize all the intricate passing isn't getting you anywhere fast, you may try to use the old 'long ball to the striker' route. Or at least when you have someone like Giroud in the box, putting crosses in actually makes sense because he's big, strong and tall enough to connect with a few of those. That alone creates another potential problem fopr the opponents. Start RLC in place of Kovacic/barkley, see how that changes our midfield dynamic. 

Also, what's with our fullbacks not being able to cross the ball? It's embarrassing to watch. Possession football requires a good use of wide players, they're essential to stretching the opposition, just look how good City are at it. I know they have better players and Pep's had more time, but my point is, there must be more to Sarriball than we've seen so far because otherwise it's a big joke.

P.S. I said he bottled it because we had an advantage over our top three rivals before last night's game. Now we don't. We rely on others dropping points. We needed that win and not for the first time this season, he failed to deliver. It's a bottle job.

 

We made ground on 2 out of our 3 competitors for a top 4 spot. Obviously in an ideal world we'd win every match we play, but that isn't realistic. Instead we've drawn with one of the toughest teams in the league this season. Not great, but not awful either. And definitely not a bottle job.

30 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

We made ground on 2 out of our 3 competitors for a top 4 spot. Obviously in an ideal world we'd win every match we play, but that isn't realistic. Instead we've drawn with one of the toughest teams in the league this season. Not great, but not awful either. And definitely not a bottle job.

Have we really fallen that far already that we should celebrate a last gasp draw playing at home to the mighty Wolves? 

14 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Have we really fallen that far already that we should celebrate a last gasp draw playing at home to the mighty Wolves? 

I'm not celebrating. It was another really frustrating performance against a well organised team that 'parked the bus'. As I said, the result wasn't great. But I also don't think it's an awful result or a 'bottle job'.

26 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

I'm not celebrating. It was another really frustrating performance against a well organised team that 'parked the bus'. As I said, the result wasn't great. But I also don't think it's an awful result or a 'bottle job'.

It is an awful result, given the circumstances. These are the moments when you need to earn your money as a manager and he failed. It's just another example of Sarri being the wrong man in the wrong place.

2 minutes ago, abramovich said:

It is an awful result, given the circumstances. These are the moments when you need to earn your money as a manager and he failed. It's just another example of Sarri being the wrong man in the wrong place.

Seems like you're absolving the players and putting all the responsibility on the manager. Sarri did what a lot of fans on here have been crying out for this season. He brought RLC AND Hudson-Odoi on, and early enough to make a difference. He pulled off Jorginho and replaced him with WIllian, then put Kante back into defensive midfield. What more did you expect Sarri to do? It wasn't Sarri's fault that Luiz, Rudiger and Emerson defended so poorly during Wolves' first and only attack of the match.

Saying a manager bottled it is a very strange thing to say. And wrong in this instance.

39 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

I'm not celebrating. It was another really frustrating performance against a well organised team that 'parked the bus'. As I said, the result wasn't great. But I also don't think it's an awful result or a 'bottle job'.

But that’s the point, all season whenever we’ve come up against a well organised defence we’ve struggled.

Even matches early in the season like West Ham away and Newcastle away we struggled badly. Everton at home was one of the first games where the opposition man marked Jorginho and we couldn’t come up with answers to that either.

At what point do we stop saying we were unlucky and start saying what we’re doing isn’t good enough? 

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Have we really fallen that far already that we should celebrate a last gasp draw playing at home to the mighty Wolves? 

This isn't a Championship team anymore, they are one of the best promoted clubs to come up in 30 years,

but it was a terrible result, partly because we were all expecting us to push on after some solid performances of late.

But Sarri is changing, he hasnt made those kind of subs in the league this season that he made against Wolves, he changed the set up mid-game like he hasn't done before. The signs are that he is adapting.

Did someone call him a bottler ? 

9 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

But that’s the point, all season whenever we’ve come up against a well organised defence we’ve struggled.

Even matches early in the season like West Ham away and Newcastle away we struggled badly. Everton at home was one of the first games where the opposition man marked Jorginho and we couldn’t come up with answers to that either.

At what point do we stop saying we were unlucky and start saying what we’re doing isn’t good enough? 

Southampton at home was another one. I don't think this is a new thing, it's been going on since before Sarri arrived. Previously we had players like Fabregas and Costa who would create/score a goal out of nothing when we were struggling. I just think we're lacking attacking flair in our squad at the moment. I do think RLC and Hudson-Odoi need to be playing more and I think RLC would have had he not been injured, but i still think attack-minded signings are needed for us to compete for the league.

I can understand why fans aren't overly happy as we've been a dominant force in this country for the past 20 years and now we're struggling for top 4. But I think a lot of us knew that we needed a rebuild which was going to take time, so this was inevitable. I don't think we're having a terrible season, I think we're doing ok considering we have a new manager and a squad that is pretty stale and needs freshening up. 

16 hours ago, abramovich said:

 

P.S. I said he bottled it because we had an advantage over our top three rivals before last night's game. Now we don't. We rely on others dropping points. We needed that win and not for the first time this season, he failed to deliver. It's a bottle job.

 

I'm going to save this 'bottle job' post for future torturing.

1 hour ago, DannyVblue said:

Seems like you're absolving the players and putting all the responsibility on the manager. Sarri did what a lot of fans on here have been crying out for this season. He brought RLC AND Hudson-Odoi on, and early enough to make a difference. He pulled off Jorginho and replaced him with WIllian, then put Kante back into defensive midfield. What more did you expect Sarri to do? It wasn't Sarri's fault that Luiz, Rudiger and Emerson defended so poorly during Wolves' first and only attack of the match.

Saying a manager bottled it is a very strange thing to say. And wrong in this instance.

Whatever changes were necessary, should have been made long ago. He's been playing the same lineup for months and we've had the same problems with our football for months.

So now because he threw CHO and RLC into the match 30 minutes from the end we're supposed to forget weeks upon weeks of the same regurgitated sh*t served on a plate time and again? He is the the biggest reason for our failures, he has no idea how to get the best out of the players he's got and he's terrible at both motivating the team (how many times this season did we manage to turn things around when conceding first?) and preparing the team tactically (the same lineup, the same approach, no matter who the opponent is).

1 hour ago, coco said:

I'm going to save this 'bottle job' post for future torturing.

I'd be more than happy to admit I was wrong about Sarri, if he turns things around.

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by abramovich

8 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Whatever changes were necessary, should have been made long ago. He's been playing the same lineup for months and we've had the same problems with our football for months.

So now because he threw CHO and RLC into the match 30 minutes from the end we're supposed to forget weeks upon weeks of the same regurgitated sh*t served on a plate time and again? He is the the biggest reason for our failures, he has no idea how to get the best out of the players he's got and he's terrible at both motivating the team (how many times this season did we manage to turn things around when conceding first?) and preparing the team tactically (the same lineup, the same approach, no matter who the opponent is).

I'd be more than happy to admit I was wrong about Sarri, if he turns things around.

So because he didn't change the whole formation and line-up after having back-to-back wins against Spurs (top 4 competitor) and Fulham you think he's a bottle job. Utterly ridiculous comment.

2 hours ago, DannyVblue said:

Southampton at home was another one. I don't think this is a new thing, it's been going on since before Sarri arrived. Previously we had players like Fabregas and Costa who would create/score a goal out of nothing when we were struggling. I just think we're lacking attacking flair in our squad at the moment. I do think RLC and Hudson-Odoi need to be playing more and I think RLC would have had he not been injured, but i still think attack-minded signings are needed for us to compete for the league.

I can understand why fans aren't overly happy as we've been a dominant force in this country for the past 20 years and now we're struggling for top 4. But I think a lot of us knew that we needed a rebuild which was going to take time, so this was inevitable. I don't think we're having a terrible season, I think we're doing ok considering we have a new manager and a squad that is pretty stale and needs freshening up. 

That's a pretty fair & accurate assessment.

BUT what a lot of us are fed up with in respect of Sarri is just as you thought he might be learning from mistakes and we're turning the corner, he reverts to type and we're all left a bit dumbfounded. YES he did make changes against Wolves earlier than in the past, and we all welcomed the sight of RLC and CHO getting on but why even go with starting line-up? The 0-0 for so long and then to be suckered to a counter attack and go 1-0 down was always on the cards. Thankfully Hazard rescued the day but we might not have that luxury next season.

Too many sides have found it far too easy to defend against us and frustrate us with THAT line up and Sarri played right into Wolves hands. I just hope that for all remaining home matches he has  finally realised this and starts games with a more adventurous & attacking line-up.

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by Nibs

48 minutes ago, Nibs said:

That's a pretty fair & accurate assessment.

BUT what a lot of us are fed up with in respect of Sarri is just as you thought he might be learning from mistakes and we're turning the corner, he reverts to type and we're all left a bit dumbfounded. YES he did make changes against Wolves earlier than in the past, and we all welcomed the sight of RLC and CHO getting on but why even go with starting line-up? The 0-0 for so long and then to be suckered to a counter attack and go 1-0 down was always on the cards. Thankfully Hazard rescued the day but we might not have that luxury next season.

Too many sides have found it far too easy to defend against us and frustrate us with THAT line up and Sarri played right into Wolves hands. I just hope that for all remaining home matches he has  finally realised this and starts games with a more adventurous & attacking line-up.

I was frustrated with Sarri's starting 11 when I saw it against Wolves because I really wanted CHO and RLC in the team. We've been struggling for creativity for a while and they're 2 of the most exciting players with have, but Sarri's been sticking with Pedro/Willian/Barkley/Kovacic. Although I was frustrated with the line-up, I don't really blame Sarri for picking the team that he did as we won our previous 2 games.

I'm not saying that Sarri's tactics are perfect and that he shouldn't be questioned, far from him. I question some of his selections myself. But I do think it's completely wrong that anyone on here can claim that Sarri bottled it.

53 minutes ago, DannyVblue said:

I was frustrated with Sarri's starting 11 when I saw it against Wolves because I really wanted CHO and RLC in the team. We've been struggling for creativity for a while and they're 2 of the most exciting players with have, but Sarri's been sticking with Pedro/Willian/Barkley/Kovacic. Although I was frustrated with the line-up, I don't really blame Sarri for picking the team that he did as we won our previous 2 games.

I'm not saying that Sarri's tactics are perfect and that he shouldn't be questioned, far from him. I question some of his selections myself. But I do think it's completely wrong that anyone on here can claim that Sarri bottled it.

I think some are saying he "bottled it" because the line up was so predictable and yes he made changes earlier than he normally does but was that due to panic after going 1-0 down and we never looked like breaking through. A more pro-active coach would have made the changes earlier - I would have like to have seen at least one at half-time.

 

I know we're still right in the fight for CL qualification, but here's a hypothetical:

Given that Hazard looks very likely to leave even if we make Top 4, and our transfer ban means we can't bring in anyone in the summer

Would you rather:

Start CHO in every game possible, risking CL qualification but improving our chances of signing him to a long term deal

OR

Keep doing what we're doing now, hypothetically keeping our CL qualification chances as high as possible, but risk losing both Hazard and CHO?

I know some say that playing CHO might actually improve our CL qualification chances, but Sarri (or the club) certainly don't feel this way. 

For me, I would start CHO every game going forward. The Zidane/RM/Hazard situation seems written in the stars and even if we do make CL, without any reinforcements, we're not going to make it very far next season. Best to focus on getting CHO to sign. 

Edited March 13, 20197 yr by dustbin719