1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

@drjonesy1994 Fair enough.  I think you are being a little harsh, Spurs away wasn't that shabby, we beat City,  and we're still only 5th because the Arse have scored more than we have.

 

Ok mate. Sorry for the high and mighty comment.

no  worries

 

There's some challenges no doubt. Signor Sarri is finding out why the Premier League is the best and toughest league in the world.

I was against his signing for all the reasons we've seen, notably the inability of our squad to adapt, his lack of youth or rotation and Napoli's struggles against deep defences. We knew all about this upfront. 

That said, for mine we'd be silly to sack him when our squad hasn't turned up for the 3 years out of the last 4. At some point we have to realise it's not the manager. 

What's actually incredible is how good Conte's win in 2016-17 looks now. The real crime is that those who rebelled like Luiz and Willian are still here and Conte who was a genuinely great manager is still awaiting his payout.

If motivating the players is the problem we have been struggling with, it further shows how wrong the board was to sack Conte. He and Simeone are the only manager that can drop any player that's not Willing to give his all. It's just a shame that the board eventually make it feels like Costa was right by not giving is all since that time he had a bid from China. By sacking Conte and not supporting him, the board indirectly show the other players that they can follow the footsteps of Costa. So this problem will persist!

11 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Don’t act like it doesn’t have anything to do with that.
There is clearly a huge difference in performance between a motivated group of players and an unmotivated one. That’s how it works in every business, an unmotivated worker isn’t half as valuable as a motivated one.

I'm not acting, silly suggestion.

How can motivation double your output on a football pitch ? that's plainly false.

8 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing.  People whining and wanting him sacked after half a season are the problem.

Should Villas Boas have been given more time? Or Scolari before him?

Sacking both of them made us a million times better in a very short time, one lead to a CL-title that we in no way would have won under AvBs guidance and we were robbed of a CL-final under Hiddink who took over from Scolari.

3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

And I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing.  People whining and wanting him sacked after half a season are the problem.

I don't believe I've said he should be sacked....(but no doubt someone will find one of my posts somewhere) but he isn't doing himself any favours at the moment, and knowing our trigger happy board and the bunch of players that seemingly have downed tools, and or are being frustrated with this system because they can't grasp whatever it is needs to play his way and he's doing little to nothing about changing the situation and when you start questioning the players mentality, rightly or wrongly, rather than admit that he got it wrong, then history tells you there's only one outcome for him.

2 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Should Villas Boas have been given more time? Or Scolari before him?

Sacking both of them made us a million times better in a very short time, one lead to a CL-title that we in no way would have won under AvBs guidance and we were robbed of a CL-final under Hiddink who took over from Scolari.

Agreed with both of those sackings. Thing then was that the players could turn up and perform when given the right system.

This team has tried Jose, Conte and now Sarri and bottled it three out of four. It's partly Sarri but it's a big part about the squad.

Not sure who it was but I remember some pundit saying the Chelsea players only seem up for it if the league title is within our grasp.  I'm starting to think there is something in this, at the start of the season when we were a couple of points from the top we played some great stuff and looked motivated, now there is no chance we look disinterested.  It's funny how we suddenly get a better performance in the cup games after looking flat in the league.  Maybe Sarri has a point.

Edited January 31, 20197 yr by DarkMata

3 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Agreed with both of those sackings. Thing then was that the players could turn up and perform when given the right system.

This team has tried Jose, Conte and now Sarri and bottled it three out of four. It's partly Sarri but it's a big part about the squad.

There are multiple managers out there that would get top performances out of this set of players.
We won the league and cups under both Jose and Conte so i am not sure what you mean about bottled. They both took this team to the league title and other titles.
 

16 minutes ago, coco said:

I'm not acting, silly suggestion.

How can motivation double your output on a football pitch ? that's plainly false.

What do you mean by output?

I truly believe that having a set of players that will run through a wall for their manager and teammates are on a completely different level in terms of performances.
Compare Conte’s first season here to lasts years for example.
Conte came here with a winning mentality and installed that into his players from his first press-conference at the club. Lead us to the title.

Then everything fell apart last year when the manager himself lost motivation as he didn’t get what he wanted/needed from board-level, leading to unmotivated players as well and we had a bad season.

Same with Mourinho's last season compared to the one before when we won the league.

 

1 hour ago, Chelsbear said:

If he’s not able to motivate them then the gig is up. You can’t just hope something changes if the squad are not taking on board his methods and instructions.

How many times are we seeing this with modern footballers though? Man Utd players did it under Jose, arsenal players under Wenger, and our players in recent years too. I don't understand it.

Last night I thought we were going to score early on, but again there was no efficiency. I don't know the answer. The problem is, the board have no prepared for Sarri whatsoever. Brought him in and said "challenge." 

I honestly think our issues will take at least another season or more to sort out. I don't even think our board are capable of changing things. With a transfer ban incoming too, it's looking bleak for us.

Edited January 31, 20197 yr by enigma

47 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

The trouble isn't just last night though. Since about November onwards we have been massively stale in every game we have played. It is clear that currently the tactics aren't working and the most annoying thing is the reluctance/ stubbornness to change and try something different. Teams have sussed out now that if you double mark or press Jorginho that is where they will get their success. If other teams have worked that out, why has our manager not? The games we have lost this season to the likes of Leicester, Wolves, Bournemouth is nowhere near good enough for a team hoping to finish in the top 4.

People keep making the Guardiola comparison - difference is for me Guardiola came to this country having won 21 trophies previously, and had a board that backed him with around £300m in his second season, Sarri wont get that.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said, but every top side loses to sh*t teams, not like that of course but you could make the argument with City, no top side loses to Newcastle like that etc. 

The Guardiola comparison isn't what it's cracked up to be I fully agree, Guardiola was always going to get a lot of backing by the board, it's a shame Sarri won't. 

But what's missing here is your solution, what do you suggest? It's only January, he hasn't even had a season yet, I think many people are overreacting. 

51 minutes ago, Sindre said:

That’s two consecutive league games where he’s said he can’t motivate this group of players post-match.
Forgive me for not wanting a manager that can’t motivate his players. It’s a shocking thing to say and we are currently sinking like a stone being fifth, going on sixth place.

I’ve like Sarri and have had his back up until very, very recently but he’s lost me after Arsenal last week and now Bournemouth.
You simply cannot admit you can’t motivate your own players and stay in the job. Because the end is coming sooner rather than later in any case when that is the case.
 

I'll admit that the comments have worried me, I don't know the full context yet but even so that's not something you want to hear. But what do you suggest then? We sack him now and get who??? What message does that send out to future managers? Is it any wonder managers come here with low confidence once the going gets tough! Maybe if we backed the manager more we wouldn't have these problems at the club. 

43 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I truly don't understand a lot of you people in here.  Half a season into a totally new  way of playing, with a squad that contains many of the players that you lot have been saying for years aren't good enough, we're in a Cup Final, still in the FA Cup and the Euopa League, and we're 5th in the Premier League on GOALS SCORED and still you moan, and whine and want the manager sacked, because obviously the grass will be greener on the other side, with a new manager, won't it?

No-one seems to have any idea at all about who that new manager should be, nor how he or she could make this squad suddenly turn into Brazil from the 1970's, but no, it's waaa, waaa, waaa, I'm fed up with my new shiney thing and I want ANOTHER new shiny thing and I want it now.

And I really do LOVE (I don't) all the footballing tactical geniuses in here who know exactly where it's being done wrong, and exactly what needs to be done to make it all cream cakes and unicorns. I'm not sure why they have all given up their very lucrative jobs managing Champions League clubs to go back to their first love of plastering,  but everyone makes their own career choices.

I've posted in one of the other Sarri threads YB as there was too much going on in this one and it gave me a headache!

But have to say, as much as I hate the revolver door manager thing, I wouldn't be sorry to see him go. It's Scolari all over again. Started well but we're now going backwards. He doesn't seem to have the ability to change anything. We're like a rudderless ship and he looks out of his depth. Would love nothing more than for him to prove me wrong and turn it around but I've seen little to make me believe that will happen. He's a Gonna.

 

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

What do you mean by output?

 

Output, productivity, in reference to your worker analogy.

5 minutes ago, coco said:

Output, productivity, in reference to your worker analogy.

Maybe it was a bad comparison.
But my point was and is, there is a huge difference in performance between a team thats motivated and one that's unmotivated.
Do you disagree with that?

I see yorkleyblue liked your post so i hope to see your answer to as if sacking AvB and Scolari was correct yorkleyblue.
Or where everyone that wanted both of them out after six, seven months moaners?

Edited January 31, 20197 yr by Sindre

3 minutes ago, Slojo said:

But what's missing here is your solution, what do you suggest

I don't know, that's the honest answer.

What I think will happen if he does get sacked is it will be Franco until the end of the season and then start again in the summer. I'm not saying that is what i want to happen but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened based on the clubs history.

2 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Maybe it was a bad comparison.
But my point was and is, there is a huge difference in performance between a team thats motivated and one that's unmotivated.
Do you disagree with that?

I think motivation comes naturally to a well coached team, it's not something you can artificially install into your players, it has to come from the training pitch.

5 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I've posted in one of the other Sarri threads YB as there was too much going on in this one and it gave me a headache!

But have to say, as much as I hate the revolver door manager thing, I wouldn't be sorry to see him go. It's Scolari all over again. Started well but we're now going backwards. He doesn't seem to have the ability to change anything. We're like a rudderless ship and he looks out of his depth. Would love nothing more than for him to prove me wrong and turn it around but I've seen little to make me believe that will happen. He's a Gonna.

It's a hard one. Our squad is awful and not up to this style of play and bereft of motivation (one might argue this is what happens when you pretty much let agents run your transfer policy). 

But there is a naivety about his play. It's AVB esque. We're so open, Bournemouth literally just had to wait for a turnover.

I just wish we had f**ked off the squad and kept Antonio. 

2 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

I don't know, that's the honest answer.

What I think will happen if he does get sacked is it will be Franco until the end of the season and then start again in the summer. I'm not saying that is what i want to happen but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened based on the clubs history.

I agree but that's also what frightens me, hopefully we don't get anymore similar results or otherwise he'll likely be on his way out, I don't think that's going to be the case though we've still got talented players here. 

Just stop with the defeatist attitude, lay down the mark and try to salvage something, if Hazard is going to go then he's going to go, accept it and move on. 

23 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Should Villas Boas have been given more time? Or Scolari before him?

Sacking both of them made us a million times better in a very short time, one lead to a CL-title that we in no way would have won under AvBs guidance and we were robbed of a CL-final under Hiddink who took over from Scolari.

You have to take context into account. Look how competitive the league was back then compared to now. The CL win we were lucky to win.

I know you need luck to win it sometimes, but that kind of football will only allow you to compete for so long. What were there, only Utd, arsenal and city who were rivals back then. After Ferguson left Utd, they turned to sh*t. 

Now you have to add spurs and Liverpool to the mix. Top four is tougher to get now. People keep saying how much better it was when we sacked managers and brought new ones in, but context is key. I genuinely don't think that will work these days. It is a new era. 

We are currently 3 points worse off than we were at the same stage of last season. 

1 minute ago, coco said:

I think motivation comes naturally to a well coached team, it's not something you can artificially install into your players, it has to come from the training pitch.

That could very well be.
But what does that say when the manager admits that he can't motivate his players then? If you believe what you say here then you have to think we aren't well coached as well?

3 minutes ago, coco said:

I think motivation comes naturally to a well coached team, it's not something you can artificially install into your players, it has to come from the training pitch.

I think Sarris Napoli are proof of a well coached team. Difference is, he was giving time and shown patience along with less pressure to challenge. I think this is the benefit of Klopp and Pochettino over recent years, they didn't have the pressure to win all the time.

We have made a rod off our backs by being as successful as we have in past years. Sometimes you gotta hold your hands up and admit times have changed and we must adapt as a club. 

35 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Neither high, nor mighty.  I truly do not understand the mind-set. 

Fickle and glory-hunting come to mind, but obviously some people might have genuinely valid reasons for wanting a manager sacked in these circumstances.  I just cannot conceive of what those reasons could possibly be.

I don't want him sacked. First of all, I don't see who we're going to replace him with. Second, I want to give the man a chance to build something. Remove the players he doesn't rate, buy those he wants and let's see if his second season is a significant improvement on his first. I can tolerate some setbacks as long as I know we're improving and truly creating a side worth waiting for. Nothing worth having comes easily. If we need to suffer before we get to something good, I'm OK with that, but I need to believe he's the man to take us there. The board, the owner, the fans and, most importantly, the players have to believe it.

What really scares me about Sarri is his inability to adapt. Conte adapted and won the league. By all accounts, he wasn't the most popular man in the dressing room, but he clearly knew what he was doing. So when Sarri says, I have trouble motivating this group, that sounds odd to me. There are PL and CL winners in this group. You won f**k all. Perhaps it's not your lack of motivational skills but rather your inability to properly use the talent at your disposal is what causes all these problems.

As for sacking managers early, what about AVB and Scolari? You don't really think we needed to keep them a bit longer, do you, Yorkley? More like we shouldn't have hired them in the first place. I'd absolutely stick with Sarri in hope he'll draw the right conclusions from his first season's troubles, but I have to say, I still have serious doubts about him.