3 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

That’s the difference between Kovacic and world class, the best players in the world would at least make the keeper work, well Essien would smash the top corner.

Different players completely though. As soon as Essien started having injuries and lost a bit of pace, he became an average player, Essien from 2010 and onwards was an absolute shadow of the player before that after his 2nd knee surgery I think it was. 

Kovacic doesn't have the physicality prime Essien had, but technically he's far ahead of him on the ball, besides the shooting department of course. But f**k me, Essien could bang one in better than most from long range, that's no insult to anyone. 

45 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Different players completely though. As soon as Essien started having injuries and lost a bit of pace, he became an average player, Essien from 2010 and onwards was an absolute shadow of the player before that after his 2nd knee surgery I think it was. 

Kovacic doesn't have the physicality prime Essien had, but technically he's far ahead of him on the ball, besides the shooting department of course. But f**k me, Essien could bang one in better than most from long range, that's no insult to anyone. 

I wasn’t really comparing them as players because that would be an injustice to Essien. One was world class and one of the best in Europe at his peak and the other sh*ts himself when he gets to the opposition box.

4 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I wasn’t really comparing them as players because that would be an injustice to Essien. One was world class and one of the best in Europe at his peak and the other sh*ts himself when he gets to the opposition box.

So you are comparing them, and it's a stupid comparison. 

Just now, Slojo said:

So you are comparing them, and it's a stupid comparison. 

I am now and Kovacic is nowhere near Essien. Essien would bring more to Chelsea’s current midfield than Kovacic and Jorginho put together.

Just now, Ernie_blue said:

I am now and Kovacic is nowhere near Essien. Essien would bring more to Chelsea’s current midfield than Kovacic and Jorginho put together.

They're completely different players... 

It's like criticising Kante because he can't pass like Paul Scholes, a lazy criticism, again both completely different players. We all know Kovacic can't shoot to save his life, but he still has other good qualities to his game, comparing him to Essien is just beyond stupid. Especially when Kovacic is better than Essien in the footballing department, like I said go watch Essien after 2010, he became half the player he was at 28 as soon as he started losing his physical aspects due to injuries. 

Just now, Slojo said:

They're completely different players... 

It's like criticising Kante because he can't pass like Paul Scholes, a lazy criticism, again both completely different players. We all know Kovacic can't shoot to save his life, but he still has other good qualities to his game, comparing him to Essien is just beyond stupid. Especially when Kovacic is better than Essien in the footballing department, like I said go watch Essien after 2010, he became half the player he was at 28 as soon as he started losing his physical aspects due to injuries. 

We all know the injuries crippled Essien, why would I want to watch an Essien from 2010 with a busted knee? They might be completely different players but all Kovacic is good at is bringing the ball out and countering the press. I want a lot more from my midfielders than that and Essien had everything.

2 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

We all know the injuries crippled Essien, why would I want to watch an Essien from 2010 with a busted knee? They might be completely different players but all Kovacic is good at is bringing the ball out and countering the press. I want a lot more from my midfielders than that and Essien had everything.

If Essien had everything then why did he drastically decline as soon as he started losing his pace? Essien as good as he was, wasn't great technically, once he started losing his pace he had little else to compensate for his game. 

But like I said, lazy criticism and comparison, both are completely different players, similar positions, completely different roles and attributes. Just sounds like a lazy way to take a dig at Kovacic. Like I said with Kante and Scholes, you could do this with any player who's lacking in one department. 

1 minute ago, Slojo said:

If Essien had everything then why did he drastically decline as soon as he started losing his pace? Essien as good as he was, wasn't great technically, once he started losing his pace he had little else to compensate for his game. 

But like I said, lazy criticism and comparison, both are completely different players, similar positions, completely different roles and attributes. Just sounds like a lazy way to take a dig at Kovacic. Like I said with Kante and Scholes, you could do this with any player who's lacking in one department. 

I think any player would decline after 2 major knee surgeries. I wouldn't hold that against a any player, it was actually really awful to see because he was such a great player. Cech was a better goalkeeper before his head injury, much to be expected too tbh.

The only comparison I was making in the first place is that a top player would make the keeper work which IMO is true. I wasn't actually comparing Essiens and Kovacics shooting but more just applauding Essiens shooting and power in his shots but maybe that come across wrong.

Tbh I only think Kovacic is a good player. Good at the couple of things he does and is a let down in many other things. I feel the same about Jorginho. I think I read you write there the best we have got atm, I think that's true tbh but also they are both replaceable.

Kova did have a spell I think under Sarri where he scored two in a short duration once in the league and once in a cup or Europe. Both similar goals being hit from the edge of the left side (attacking perspective) of the box into the bottom left corner and hit right footed if I recall. They weren't blasted and went across the turf rather than through the air yet he was under pressure at the time to score more...........

10 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Kova did have a spell I think under Sarri where he scored two in a short duration once in the league and once in a cup or Europe. Both similar goals being hit from the edge of the left side (attacking perspective) of the box into the bottom left corner and hit right footed if I recall. They weren't blasted and went across the turf rather than through the air yet he was under pressure at the time to score more...........

I reckon Slojo is searching these goals now to make his very own YouTube video 😂

3 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I reckon Slojo is searching these goals now to make his very own YouTube video 😂

He’d have to channel his inner Bollywood producer to get more than 4 secs out of that video!

 

19 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

He’d have to channel his inner Bollywood producer to get more than 4 secs out of that video!

With all the different angles and slow mos I'm sure you can get it upto 30 secs at least.

Just now, Ernie_blue said:

With all the different angles and slow mos I'm sure you can get it upto 30 secs at least.

 A few explosions when it his the back of the net...

6 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

No wonder Kovacic is bloody knackered after 60 minutes, he's having to do all of the work in midfield. Jorginho is absolutely useless, Kov needs someone who can also support attacks to take the burden off him. 

Gilmour is the best option we have at the club. Tuchel need to give him a chance.

Didn't Kovacic have more than enough games without Jorginho this season - only to look like one of our weak links most of the time? 

If Jorginho was useless explain his overall performance:

Jorginho - Kovacic works, it has been a good partnership overall for the past 2 seasons. When Lampard stopped using them he stopped winning.

22 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Didn't Kovacic have more than enough games without Jorginho this season - only to look like one of our weak links most of the time? 

If Jorginho was useless explain his overall performance:

Jorginho - Kovacic works, it has been a good partnership overall for the past 2 seasons. When Lampard stopped using them he stopped winning.

For me Jorgy and Kova are working well at the moment and worked well under Sarri though not so much under Lampard.

The general thinking is Kova and Kante are too similar both like to roam and neither sees themselves as just a DM.

Two things will be interesting, how we play the likes of City, Liverpool and Utd and what midfield set up we see for these matches.

Also how we play when Kova is unavailable and I assume Kante steps in.

 

Kova is a good player when used in the right system. He and Jorgy are working very well together. We did struggle to bring the ball out against the press, personally I kind of expected that because its the first time we've played against the press under Tuchel and the team needed to readjust. Also without Thiago its more of a struggle. 

He can't shoot. He isn't that good at tackling. He's worth his place because he is great on the ball between the boxes. He can make good passes to create opportunities but sometimes stuffs it up as he did against Sheffield. Increasing his good pass/assist percentage is a realistic possibility. Expecting him to score goals like Lampard, or bless him Essien is not.

Revisiting the stats Essien scored 17 premier league goals from 168 appearances of which 5 were headers. He also had 10 assists. Kova has 6 assists and 1 goal from 81 games. Essien might have done better if given more scope in the early seasons by Mourinho but also played in more dominant teams. These arguments go on for ever. Kova is what we have today.

Just not enough of a goal threat from these two and its a massive problem when your front line are not full of goals. 

Its similar to Liverpool but the difference is they have a perennial Golden Boot challenger on their books.

14 hours ago, ozboy said:

Kova is a good player when used in the right system. He and Jorgy are working very well together. We did struggle to bring the ball out against the press, personally I kind of expected that because its the first time we've played against the press under Tuchel and the team needed to readjust. Also without Thiago its more of a struggle. 

He can't shoot. He isn't that good at tackling. He's worth his place because he is great on the ball between the boxes. He can make good passes to create opportunities but sometimes stuffs it up as he did against Sheffield. Increasing his good pass/assist percentage is a realistic possibility. Expecting him to score goals like Lampard, or bless him Essien is not.

Revisiting the stats Essien scored 17 premier league goals from 168 appearances of which 5 were headers. He also had 10 assists. Kova has 6 assists and 1 goal from 81 games. Essien might have done better if given more scope in the early seasons by Mourinho but also played in more dominant teams. These arguments go on for ever. Kova is what we have today.

I find it ironic that Essien is being talked about once again, reminds me of 2019 when someone said that Kovacic was the best midfielder in the whole league and when my response to that was that it's KDB I was deemed as a hater and what not, now it's totally not a sin to compare him with Essien...

I thought that Kovacic will end up shooting more often under Lampard, the fact that it didn't happen makes me believe that Kovacic may just lack the maturity since IMO it's not a technical issue, he simply goes blind as soon as he's around the opposition box. Next season he'll be 27 entering his best years (27-29) so hopefully he will be able to overcome this issue of panicking as soon as he enters into a chance.

I still think that people somewhat overreacted to us struggling in the first 10-20 minutes of that last game, in the end of the day we had a comfortable 70% possession most of the time and we gifted them a goal, when you see that Giroud wasn't really a target for a pass for most of the game then you realize that Kovacic still managed to find some good openings due to Werner's runs despite the central midfield being a 2 vs 3 in the favor of Sheffield - meaning when Mount stays up and doesn't come deep it's Kovacic-Jorginho vs Fleck, Norwood, Lundstram so when James and Chilwell are being pressured the ball could only go back to Azpilicueta-Christensen-Rudiger.

He lifts his head and leans back when shooting. It’s incredible when you see how good his technique and decision are making when creating space for himself. 

All I know with a 100% certainty is stick a prime  Michael Essien in our midfield now and we would be a lot better for it.

Kova is playing well at the moment too.

1 hour ago, just said:

All I know with a 100% certainty is stick a prime  Michael Essien in our midfield now and we would be a lot better for it.

Kova is playing well at the moment too.

The wonderful thing about absolute certainty in hypothetical scenarios is that you can't be proven wrong. So 100% is definitely the way to go, you wouldn't want to leave it at 99,8% or something silly like that.

9 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

The wonderful thing about absolute certainty in hypothetical scenarios is that you can't be proven wrong. So 100% is definitely the way to go, you wouldn't want to leave it at 99,8% or something silly like that.

You are spot on Vaga.

I should have said.. 110% certainty.

3 minutes ago, just said:

You are spot on Vaga.

I should have said.. 110% certainty.

Why not go with 5000% like this lovely lady? 😅
 

 

On 08/02/2021 at 19:15, Gol15 said:

Didn't Kovacic have more than enough games without Jorginho this season - only to look like one of our weak links most of the time? 

If Jorginho was useless explain his overall performance:

Jorginho - Kovacic works, it has been a good partnership overall for the past 2 seasons. When Lampard stopped using them he stopped winning.

They're missing the details of how he got completely brushed aside by Fleck about 3 times in the first 25 minutes!!