31 minutes ago, Argo said:

Ey? He was sensational for his entire first season and the following season upto the winter. The start we had which saw us top was almost solely down to him.

Even after that he still had his momements (ala the League Cup final).

Happy to refine if you want to split hairs.

He made his debut for us on 4th October 2020

We won the champions league 8 months later in May 2021

We then started the next season 2.5 months later on 14th august 2021.

By December - there was already discontent on here at his performances. 

So if we are to take his first 8 months as good. and the following 3.5 months between mid august 2021 to when the mistakes started - then we have a grand total of 11 months of good performances.

So we can revise my line to say...

"he came in at the age of 29, and was superb for 11 months...."

It is still a blip of stellar form in an otherwise mediocre career

 

 

1 minute ago, nonotnowjim said:

Happy to refine if you want to split hairs.

He made his debut for us on 4th October 2020

We won the champions league 8 months later in May 2021

We then started the next season 2.5 months later on 14th august 2021.

By December - there was already discontent on here at his performances. 

So if we are to take his first 8 months as good. and the following 3.5 months between mid august 2021 to when the mistakes started - then we have a grand total of 11 months of good performances.

So we can revise my line to say...

"he came in at the age of 29, and was superb for 11 months...."

It is still a blip of stellar form in an otherwise mediocre career

 

 

Even if we say 11 months that is almost double of the 6 months comment that caused me to reply.

5 minutes ago, Argo said:

Dudek's reputation is almost solely based on a penalty shootout where he somehow got away with blatantly breaking the rules. Before that he was the butt of many jokes and struggling to keep his place in the side ahead of Chris Kirkland (if I recall correctly Liverpool fans favoured the latter out of the two).

Had he got rightly punished for his actions or it never happened he would be remembered for one of the worst individual games in PL history (that United/Forlan game) if he was atall.

Mendy had a season and a half of genuine consistent world class performances. It's basically the player comparison of trying to compare Di Matteo and Tuchel because they technically achieved the same thing.

Ofcourse the opinion is that version of Mendy is long gone is fair and unfortunately probably correct but he still had an extended period of being a genuine elite performer.

That's isn't true. He finished 3rd only behind Buffon and Kahn for UEFA GK of the year in 2002. He then received a MOTM performance against United in the league cup final a year later and than the infamous night at Istanbul a year after that. 

2-3 years of pinnacle performances which is dwarfed by his entire playing career. That is Mendy in a nutshell. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

That's isn't true. He finished 3rd only behind Buffon and Kahn for UEFA GK of the year in 2002. He then received a MOTM performance against United in the league cup final a year later and than the infamous night at Istanbul a year after that. 

2-3 years of pinnacle performances which is dwarfed by his entire playing career. That is Mendy in a nutshell. 

 

 

Fair enough I stand corrected.

I still think Mendy is a better goalkeeper than Kepa. His immense form when he joined us, he genuinely was one of the world’s best. The impact he had on the team was massive.

He seems to have vanished but the quality must be still there and I would like to give him another chance before we sell him. It feels abit too soon to get rid of him, I would prefer to sell Kepa and keep Mendy as back up.

5 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

I would prefer to sell Kepa and keep Mendy as back up.

Unless the Saudi's get involved or Kepa forces a move, this will never happen. 

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

Mendy by contrast has been, for the vast majority of his career, a journeyman goalkeeper, who at one point almost quit the game as he couldn't get a club. He then had played 25ish games for Rennes before getting signed by us. At which point he came in at the age of 29 and was superb for 6 months. After that he has reverted back to a very average keeper - which his career before us suggests he was (26 games for Cherbourg. 80 games over 3 seasons at Reims, and 25ish for Renne. Plus a few B team games in France in between).

So....

completely fair to say Mendys high point is the blip. 

completely unfair to say Mounts "long decent run" was a blip. 

 

 

 

Mendy has played 259 games in his career with a save percentage across all of it of 76.3% 

If you want to see how 76.3% as a career save percentage compares to other keepers, here are a few notable others for you :

Cech 78.8% ; Alisson 76.5% ; Courtois 74.0% ; Oblak 76.6% ; Donnarumma 74.4%; Kepa 70.5% ; De Gea 72.8% ; Sanchez 70.2% ; Raya 74.0% ; Onana 72.0% ; Ederson 72.5% ; Lloris 73.7% ; ter Stegen 76.2% ; Neuer 76.8% ; Sommer 73.5% ; Pope 76.0% ; Pickford 69.2% ; Kobel 67.6%.

If you don't think that Mendy's is a decent performance, then fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree. Most reasonable people would consider this level of saves to be very good. Not the best, but certainly a hell of a long way from the picture you persist in trying to paint ... 

Edited March 21, 20233 yr by Sexyfootball

25 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Mendy has played 259 games in his career with a save percentage across all of it of 76.3% 

If you want to see how 76.3% as a career save percentage compares to other keepers, here are a few notable others for you :

Cech 78.8% ; Alisson 76.5% ; Courtois 74.0% ; Oblak 76.6% ; Donnarumma 74.4%; Kepa 70.5% ; De Gea 72.8% ; Sanchez 70.2% ; Raya 74.0% ; Onana 72.0% ; Ederson 72.5% ; Lloris 73.7% ; ter Stegen 76.2% ; Neuer 76.8% ; Sommer 73.5% ; Pope 76.0% ; Pickford 69.2% ; Kobel 67.6%.

If you don't think that Mendy's is a decent performance, then fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree. Most reasonable people would consider this level of saves to be very good. Not the best, but certainly a hell of a long way from the picture you persist in trying to paint ... 

I agree. Decent save percentage.

For balance, please also give the number of mistakes he has made to give away direct goalscoring opportunities - and compare them to other top keepers.

Here are just a few articles detailing his errors that cost us chances, goals or matches from the last 12 months.....

 

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/19721203/edouard-mendy-errors-chelsea-problem-ferdinand/

https://talksport.com/football/1252684/edouard-mendy-errors-against-netherlands-senegal-world-cup/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/edouard-mendy-thomas-tuchel-chelsea-25617010

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12678568/mendys-howler-its-a-terrible-mistake

https://onefootball.com/en/news/video-sickening-edouard-mendy-error-leaves-chelsea-3-1-behind-34869498

https://www.givemesport.com/88055740-chelsea-2-1-west-ham-edouard-mendy-got-away-with-mistake-thanks-to-var/

 

9 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I agree. Decent save percentage.

For balance, please also give the number of mistakes he has made to give away direct goalscoring opportunities - and compare them to other top keepers.

Here are just a few articles detailing his errors that cost us chances, goals or matches from the last 12 months.....

 

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/19721203/edouard-mendy-errors-chelsea-problem-ferdinand/

https://talksport.com/football/1252684/edouard-mendy-errors-against-netherlands-senegal-world-cup/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/edouard-mendy-thomas-tuchel-chelsea-25617010

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12678568/mendys-howler-its-a-terrible-mistake

https://onefootball.com/en/news/video-sickening-edouard-mendy-error-leaves-chelsea-3-1-behind-34869498

https://www.givemesport.com/88055740-chelsea-2-1-west-ham-edouard-mendy-got-away-with-mistake-thanks-to-var/

 

I don't know of any resources that list goalkeeper mistakes, but of course any goals against from such mistakes would be included in the overall goalkeeping stats you don't take any notice of ... 

8 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I don't know of any resources that list goalkeeper mistakes, but of course any goals against from such mistakes would be included in the overall goalkeeping stats you don't take any notice of ... 

Stats are great - when they are rounded and not taken in isolation.

To say a keeper has X% Saves during his career is great. But it only goes so far and becomes a different story if that same keeper is a liability who is costing numerous of those chances in the first place.

For example.... any given keeper could save 9 out of 10 shots every game. 90% save rate.... world-class.   But if the shot he lets in every game is as the result of his mistake from carelessly giving the ball away, then the save % becomes irrelevant - he would still be costing the team a goal a game.

 

 

28 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Stats are great - when they are rounded and not taken in isolation.

To say a keeper has X% Saves during his career is great. But it only goes so far and becomes a different story if that same keeper is a liability who is costing numerous of those chances in the first place.

For example.... any given keeper could save 9 out of 10 shots every game. 90% save rate.... world-class.   But if the shot he lets in every game is as the result of his mistake from carelessly giving the ball away, then the save % becomes irrelevant - he would still be costing the team a goal a game.

OK, I can't find any "all comps" data, but I have now found an area of the Premier League site that shows goalkeeper errors leading to goals (Opta data).

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal

In season 20/21 Mendy had 1 error (Alisson, generally regarded as #1 in the world for GKs, had 3, same as Kepa. No GK in the PL had zero errors btw)

In season 21/22 Mendy had 1 error (in the season you've been telling us how much of a liability he was)

In season 22/23 Mendy has also had 1 error. 

So he's made 3 errors leading to goals in the Premier League in all the time he's been with us (across 3 seasons, 74 appearances), and, if you look at data at the link I shared above, you'll see that compares quite favourably to the other goal keepers.

I imagine that is a lot less than you thought it was going to be ?

 

Don't know why folk are arguing over who is the better keeper when neither are good enough and neither would get in to any other top 6 side.

It's simple, we need an upgrade. There are high hopes for Slonina but I didn't realise he was only 18, so it could be a while before he dons the gloves for the first team. There are plenty of experienced keepers out there who are better than both Kepa and Mendy so it has to be priority in the summer (along with a striker).

33 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Don't know why folk are arguing over who is the better keeper when neither are good enough and neither would get in to any other top 6 side.

It's simple, we need an upgrade. There are high hopes for Slonina but I didn't realise he was only 18, so it could be a while before he dons the gloves for the first team. There are plenty of experienced keepers out there who are better than both Kepa and Mendy so it has to be priority in the summer (along with a striker).

Because in the context of the rest of the season it's very relevant.

Before new year I was happy to let Kepa have the gig until the end of the season but now after a consistent catalogue of mistakes since I'm leaning towards bringing Edou back in.

But yes barring the latter rolling back the clock we need a new keeper no arguments there.

41 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Don't know why folk are arguing over who is the better keeper when neither are good enough and neither would get in to any other top 6 side.

De Gea and Lloris are definitely not unseatable. Ederson suits how Pep wants Man City to play, but I don't think he is a great goalkeeper. Ramsdale I think is over-rated.  Alisson is a great keeper, but prone to mistakes as much as anybody. Pope has done well at Newcastle, and is a reliable keeper.

• Arsenal - Ramsdale
• Man City - Ederson
• Man United - De Gea
• Tottenham - Lloris
• Newcastle - Pope
• Liverpool - Alisson

I don't think it is as clear cut as you make out. Kepa is #2 to Alisson this season in terms of goals conceded vs xG  (i.e. he saves more than he statistically should) and is #1 in % saved despite recent events. Mendy from 20/21 or 21/22 is favourably comparable to all six of these keepers as well.

Assuming they are both on the way out however, who do you actually want to replace Mendy and Kepa ?

52 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Don't know why folk are arguing over who is the better keeper when neither are good enough and neither would get in to any other top 6 side.

It's simple, we need an upgrade. There are high hopes for Slonina but I didn't realise he was only 18, so it could be a while before he dons the gloves for the first team. There are plenty of experienced keepers out there who are better than both Kepa and Mendy so it has to be priority in the summer (along with a striker).

2 bald men fighting over a comb....

8 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

De Gea and Lloris are definitely not unseatable. Ederson suits how Pep wants Man City to play, but I don't think he is a great goalkeeper. Ramsdale I think is over-rated.  Alisson is a great keeper, but prone to mistakes as much as anybody. Pope has done well at Newcastle, and is a reliable keeper.

• Arsenal - Ramsdale
• Man City - Ederson
• Man United - De Gea
• Tottenham - Lloris
• Newcastle - Pope
• Liverpool - Alisson

I don't think it is as clear cut as you make out. Kepa is #2 to Alisson this season in terms of goals conceded vs xG  (i.e. he saves more than he statistically should) and is #1 in % saved despite recent events. Mendy from 20/21 or 21/22 is favourably comparable to all six of these keepers as well.

Assuming they are both on the way out however, who do you actually want to replace Mendy and Kepa ?

I would honestly take any of those over the two we currently have. All are prone to errors (especially Lloris), but all are more consistent than what we have.

I honestly wanted us to sign Pope before the bar-codes signed him - think he's a very decent keeper. I'm not a massive fan of Pickford, but would still put him well ahead of Kepa and Mendy, so maybe sign him until Slonina is ready.

27 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I would honestly take any of those over the two we currently have. All are prone to errors (especially Lloris), but all are more consistent than what we have.

I honestly wanted us to sign Pope before the bar-codes signed him - think he's a very decent keeper. I'm not a massive fan of Pickford, but would still put him well ahead of Kepa and Mendy, so maybe sign him until Slonina is ready.

It would be very off piste for the current regime to sign a new keeper pushing 30, or already 30+ though wouldn't it ? 

The only two signings Clearlake have made in that ball park are players I imagine Boehly already regrets signing (Koulibaly and Aubameyang). Twice bitten, thrice shy ?

Ramsdale is the only one of the six who fits the age profile for a "project" .... and no way he's going to swap Arsenal for us right now.

So who else ?

Raya looks most likely to me. Good profile and stats ; right age ; available for low fee ; likely to love a move to a bigger club ... 

Edited March 21, 20233 yr by Sexyfootball

11 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

It would be very off piste for the current regime to sign a new keeper pushing 30, or already 30+ though wouldn't it ? 

The only two signings Clearlake have made in that ball park are players I imagine Boehly already regrets signing (Koulibaly and Aubameyang). Twice bitten, thrice shy ?

Ramsdale is the only one of the six who fits the age profile for a "project" .... and no way he's going to swap Arsenal for us right now.

So who else ?

Raya looks most likely to me. Good profile and stats ; right age ; available for free ; likely to love a move to a bigger club ... 

Pickford is 29 which is not at all old for a keeper and actually perfect age for the 18 year old understudy to gain experience and then take over in a few seasons time.

Not saying Pickford is the answer and your suggestion of Raya is also a good shout. Just hope we sign someone as our new No.1 and we don't need to spunk a small fortune either.

End of the day Kepas errors in the league wont define his season. If he is flawless and helps us win the CL all will be forgiven.

21 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

End of the day Kepas errors in the league wont define his season. If he is flawless and helps us win the CL all will be forgiven.

That's a pretty big (and very unlikely) if!!

4 hours ago, Nibs said:

That's a pretty big (and very unlikely) if!!

It's time to make him Officially our manager!

 

PS! I need those gif-s of him giving directions/tactics to other players...

19 minutes ago, alvarezCFC said:

It's time to make him Officially our manager!

 

PS! I need those gif-s of him giving directions/tactics to other players...

No, it's time for him to stop flapping at crosses and corners.

16 minutes ago, just said:

No, it's time for him to stop flapping at crosses and corners.

He becomes a manager, we get a new goalkeeper...win-win imo!

Bet he still gets picked by Bruno tonight.