Every time the ball is passed back to mendy, i nearly have a heart attack. i have nightmare visions of Robinson air kicking.

It has been clear for some time that NEITHER Kepa or Mendy are good enough for a side wanting to compete at the highest level. Both have periods of good form only to let us down when it matters.

I thought we signed a young American keeper a while back who is very highly rated. Anyone know how good he is and if he is ready to be thrown in next season?

I think that will be more easy sell mendy than kepa, sadly 

1 hour ago, Ajbod said:

Every time the ball is passed back to mendy, i nearly have a heart attack. i have nightmare visions of Robinson air kicking.

Agreed. Similar to degea..but if he can fix that .. much better than Kepa then.

11 hours ago, Nibs said:

It has been clear for some time that NEITHER Kepa or Mendy are good enough for a side wanting to compete at the highest level. Both have periods of good form only to let us down when it matters.

I thought we signed a young American keeper a while back who is very highly rated. Anyone know how good he is and if he is ready to be thrown in next season?

Slonina is at the Club now, in the development squad I think although has a First Team Squad number 36 and is getting very positive reviews. Mendy has been told to look for another Club, so Kepa will drop down to "back up" and Slonina takes over the gloves !!

Can we somehow transplant Kepa's ball playing ability onto Mendy?

It would solve everything

17 hours ago, Ajbod said:

Every time the ball is passed back to mendy, i nearly have a heart attack. i have nightmare visions of Robinson air kicking.

Or maybe design a tactic where we don't need a ball-playing goalkeeper

11 hours ago, Deino said:

Or maybe design a tactic where we don't need a ball-playing goalkeeper

This. We play so many risky balls back to the keeper that amount to nothing because we have no idea on how to make passing patterns forward. I can see how playing out from the back can be effective but 9/10 when we do it, it's pointless. 

Even prime Cech would struggle with this style of play. A keepers job shouldnt be to have to constantly pass out the back.

Those errors in his game aren't going away, that's his limitations and we just have to accept that. Should we go after a better GK if there's a chance? Absolutely, but not top priority. He has done well this season despite the latest errors, that first half save against Dortumound's free kick was neglected at the end of the game. Given how we played, there's no way we'd come back that game if we conceded first.

Edited March 20, 20233 yr by icecoolguy22

13 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

 Even prime Cech would struggle with this style of play. A keepers job shouldnt be to have to constantly pass out the back.

Whether it should or shouldn't be is by the by, what a job is for a certain player is usually down to opponents strategy/the way the game is. In the 00s CBs like Martinez in this league would have been a comedy show but now he fits perfectly.

In this era a good ball playing keeper gives you a huge advantage, part of the reason AC Milan managed the second leg vs Spurs so well was because Maignan was not only constantly wiping Spurs players out of the game with his passes but finding his teammates in space on top of that.

12 hours ago, Deino said:

Can we somehow transplant Kepa's ball playing ability onto Mendy?

It would solve everything

Kepas ball playing ability is highly overrated actually.  He has one club in his back, a clip to the wings providing he is under no pressure.  Distribution is poor under any sort of pressure

3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Kepas ball playing ability is highly overrated actually.  He has one club in his back, a clip to the wings providing he is under no pressure.  Distribution is poor under any sort of pressure

Didn't clock it at the time but it was him hoofing it when Trevoh was wide open for a pass that started the chain of events that led to the 2-2.

And I don't think Kepa is better than the peak version of Mendy at distribution either.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1430620213263863812/pu/vid/1280x720/-5Ce-tPK9GqdH2Kr.mp4?tag=12

Just going by that video you can see he's clearly no Ederson but also wasn't anywhere near as bad as people are making out (pre his drop in form).

4 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Those errors in his game aren't going away, that's his limitations and we just have to accept that. Should we go after a better GK if there's a chance? Absolutely, but not top priority. He has done well this season despite the latest errors, that first half save against Dortumound's free kick was neglected at the end of the game. Given how we played, there's no way we'd come back that game if we conceded first.

I disagree it has to be an absolute priority unless Edou suddenly gets his 2021 form back.

The fact Kepa is considered in the form of his life and still making multiple costly errors says everything. When Mendy was in the form of his life he was troubling clean sheet records held by the likes of Canizares and Kahn.

We need a new first choice keeper. 

Kepa costs us too many goals with his flappyness and weak wrists. 

Mendy costs us too many chances with his panicky distribution.

Neither are good enough.

Mendy at his best was good enough and he was immense in UCL win....but history would indicate that his best was a blip and not the norm.  

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

We need a new first choice keeper. 

Kepa costs us too many goals with his flappyness and weak wrists. 

Mendy costs us too many chances with his panicky distribution.

Neither are good enough.

Mendy at his best was good enough and he was immense in UCL win....but history would indicate that his best was a blip and not the norm.  

You can't just pass off Mendy's entire career pre-Chelsea, and his good form for the majority of his time with us as "not the norm". 

All keepers make mistakes ... look at Allison and Courtois the other day ... 

And regarding Kepa, I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he has plenty of credit in the bank this season. If you look at actual conceded goals vs expected conceded goals, he's second only to Allison in the whole PL, and comfortably ahead of the likes of Sanchez and Raya. He's still top on save percentage as well.

Kepa's just been featured in the marketing for the new club retro shirts, so I doubt he is going anywhere.

 

Just now, Sexyfootball said:

You can't just pass off Mendy's entire career pre-Chelsea, and his good form for the majority of his time with us as "not the norm". 

All keepers make mistakes ... look at Allison and Courtois the other day ... 

And regarding Kepa, I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he has plenty of credit in the bank this season. If you look at actual conceded goals vs expected conceded goals, he's second only to Allison in the whole PL, and comfortably ahead of the likes of Sanchez and Raya. He's still top on save percentage as well.

Kepa's just been featured in the marketing for the new club retro shirts, so I doubt he is going anywhere.

 

Yes - I think you can pass off blips of good form if it isn’t the norm.

The premier league is littered with players who had a single good season -  but where that quality didn’t tally with the rest of their career . Michu, Andy Johnson, Jack Rodwell, Papis Cisse. All players that were red hot for a short period but who overall were poor.

Mendy has been the same story. 

Likewise -  Kepa has been consistently poor, costing us goals and games. Stats tell some of the story - but our eyes tell us the rest. Does he inspire confidence in the defenders that play with him?

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Yes - I think you can pass off blips of good form if it isn’t the norm.

The premier league is littered with players who had a single good season -  but where that quality didn’t tally with the rest of their career . Michu, Andy Johnson, Jack Rodwell, Papis Cisse. All players that were red hot for a short period but who overall were poor.

Mendy has been the same story. 

Likewise -  Kepa has been consistently poor, costing us goals and games. Stats tell some of the story - but our eyes tell us the rest. Does he inspire confidence in the defenders that play with him?

Are you going to apply your "blip" definition logic to players like Mount as well ? He's also had a long run of decent form, presumably also a "blip", and then a short run of poor form, presumably now the "norm" ? That would be strange logic to apply to Mount wouldn't it ? And it's similarly strange logic to apply it to Mendy as well. Why do think Cech scouted him for us  in the first place if he's been terrible his whole career ?

We can all agree that Kepa was sh*te in previous seasons, but this season he has NOT been consistently poor. If he had been, Potter would have been out of a job by now. Defending and conceding goals has been the least of our problems this season ... only Manchester City, Arsenal and Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the PL than us. 

57 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

You can't just pass off Mendy's entire career pre-Chelsea, and his good form for the majority of his time with us as "not the norm". 

All keepers make mistakes ... look at Allison and Courtois the other day ... 

And regarding Kepa, I'm not his biggest fan by any stretch of the imagination, but he has plenty of credit in the bank this season. If you look at actual conceded goals vs expected conceded goals, he's second only to Allison in the whole PL, and comfortably ahead of the likes of Sanchez and Raya. He's still top on save percentage as well.

Kepa's just been featured in the marketing for the new club retro shirts, so I doubt he is going anywhere.

 

The point here, i think, is identifying what you want your goalkeeper for and then making sure you have the right one to fit the profile. Big Pete was never a ball playing keeper and we knew it so we played to his strengths. Pete could stop shots, claim crosses and command his area. He was master of his box at a time when he was surrounded by defensive captains. But his job was to collect the ball and stop in going in the net. He would then give the ball to someone to go play. Not his job.

Mendy is a similar player in style. Perhaps that is why Cech identified him.

But, perhaps becuase its fashionable, we want to play sweeper keeper football, so we dress Kepa up as this ball playing goalie that we can always use as our get out clause if we are backed into trouble and can get us playing again. There is actually very little evidence of that being the case. In fact more often than not we go short and continue recycle backwards, particularly if the opposition energetically press high, until someone (GK or defender) gets boxed in or outnumbered and they hoof it away anyway. Not always, of course, but often enough to pi$$ us off.

I do agree with @Argo a keeper that the whole defence have confidence in is a priority but it is important that we get someone that fits the style of play. What i would say is that if we wish to have a keeper who is very good with his feet, these are at a premium and there will be flaws elsewhere (DDG for example)

 

3 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

The point here, i think, is identifying what you want your goalkeeper for and then making sure you have the right one to fit the profile. Big Pete was never a ball playing keeper and we knew it so we played to his strengths. Pete could stop shots, claim crosses and command his area. He was master of his box at a time when he was surrounded by defensive captains. But his job was to collect the ball and stop in going in the net. He would then give the ball to someone to go play. Not his job.

Mendy is a similar player in style. Perhaps that is why Cech identified him.

But, perhaps becuase its fashionable, we want to play sweeper keeper football, so we dress Kepa up as this ball playing goalie that we can always use as our get out clause if we are backed into trouble and can get us playing again. There is actually very little evidence of that being the case. In fact more often than not we go short and continue recycle backwards, particularly if the opposition energetically press high, until someone (GK or defender) gets boxed in or outnumbered and they hoof it away anyway. Not always, of course, but often enough to pi$$ us off.

I do agree with @Argo a keeper that the whole defence have confidence in is a priority but it is important that we get someone that fits the style of play. What i would say is that if we wish to have a keeper who is very good with his feet, these are at a premium and there will be flaws elsewhere (DDG for example)

 

Fair points Whitewall.

Maybe the Slonina kid will prove to be the right stuff, though no idea what he is like with the ball at his feet ? He certainly seems a confident young man, which is a helpful trait to have. I'm surprised after a great International debut in January, that he hasn't made the squad for the two USA fixtures this week.

4 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Are you going to apply your "blip" definition logic to players like Mount as well ? He's also had a long run of decent form, presumably also a "blip", and then a short run of poor form, presumably now the "norm" ? That would be strange logic to apply to Mount wouldn't it ? And it's similarly strange logic to apply it to Mendy as well. Why do think Cech scouted him for us  in the first place if he's been terrible his whole career ?

We can all agree that Kepa was sh*te in previous seasons, but this season he has NOT been consistently poor. If he had been, Potter would have been out of a job by now. Defending and conceding goals has been the least of our problems this season ... only Manchester City, Arsenal and Newcastle have conceded fewer goals in the PL than us. 

No - the opposite.

Mount is a young player, who has mostly been an effective player, delivering good performances for most of his career. The blip therefore is the current run of poor form, which may be down to a number of factors (burn out, system, distracted by contract etc etc)

Mendy by contrast has been, for the vast majority of his career, a journeyman goalkeeper, who at one point almost quit the game as he couldn't get a club. He then had played 25ish games for Rennes before getting signed by us. At which point he came in at the age of 29 and was superb for 6 months. After that he has reverted back to a very average keeper - which his career before us suggests he was (26 games for Cherbourg. 80 games over 3 seasons at Reims, and 25ish for Renne. Plus a few B team games in France in between).

So....

completely fair to say Mendys high point is the blip. 

completely unfair to say Mounts "long decent run" was a blip. 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

At which point he came in at the age of 29 and was superb for 6 months. 

Ey? He was sensational for his entire first season and the following season upto the winter. The start we had which saw us top was almost solely down to him.

Even after that he still had his momements (ala the League Cup final).

Edited March 21, 20233 yr by Argo

meny was also amazing in our carling cup final 

yeah its make some mistakes but don't compare him to kepa jesus christ 

I think the point is that neither are good enough. 

Kepa a decent shot stopper until it stretches beyond his pretty poor wingspan. He's also incredibly poor at commanding his box which is something you need to be a success in the Premier League. 

Mendy for 90% of his career has been an average keeper. The other 10% of form is what we saw September 2020-April 2022, which has completely vanished. To suggest this 'poor form' is a blip and not the other way around isn't valid. Every dog has its day, ala Dudek. 

15 minutes ago, Argo said:

Ey? He was sensational for his entire first season and the following season upto the winter. The start we had which saw us top was almost solely down to him.

Even after that he still had his movements (ala the League Cup final).

When he came into the team everyone was lifted by it, he was immense, i kept calling him supermendy, if we can get that Mendy back on the pitch and that confident again we will be ok for a keeper for a few more seasons, gives us time to develop or find a new top class keeper, its obvious Kepa isnt.

13 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I think the point is that neither are good enough. 

Kepa a decent shot stopper until it stretches beyond his pretty poor wingspan. He's also incredibly poor at commanding his box which is something you need to be a success in the Premier League. 

Mendy for 90% of his career has been an average keeper. The other 10% of form is what we saw September 2020-April 2022, which has completely vanished. To suggest this 'poor form' is a blip and not the other way around isn't valid. Every dog has its day, ala Dudek. 

Dudek's reputation is almost solely based on a penalty shootout where he somehow got away with blatantly breaking the rules. Before that he was the butt of many jokes and struggling to keep his place in the side ahead of Chris Kirkland (if I recall correctly Liverpool fans favoured the latter out of the two).

Had he got rightly punished for his actions or it never happened he would be remembered for one of the worst individual games in PL history (that United/Forlan game) if he was atall.

Mendy had a season and a half of genuine consistent world class performances. It's basically the player comparison of trying to compare Di Matteo and Tuchel because they technically achieved the same thing.

Ofcourse the opinion is that version of Mendy is long gone is fair and unfortunately probably correct but he still had an extended period of being a genuine elite performer.