12 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Todd and cos first signing the latest to, indirectly, criticize them:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12873885/raheem-sterling-exclusive-chelsea-forward-says-season-has-been-one-of-the-lowest-points-of-his-career

 

Which essentially confirms what we all know the owners f**ked us this season and now they players are calling them out publicly which could even get more toxic. Silva, Havertz, Sterling!! It seems the players have loss faith in the owners which is very damming to have that happen in less than a season.  His performances should definitely be better but attacking your own player (which we seem to do a lot at this club ) is not going to help the club or player. Hazard got attacked, Cesc, Costa, Jorginho got booed by his own fans same with Cucu. We need to stop this!!

Edited May 6, 20233 yr by El regreso

2 hours ago, El regreso said:

Which essentially confirms what we all know the owners f**ked us this season and now they players are calling them out publicly which could even get more toxic. Silva, Havertz, Sterling!! It seems the players have loss faith in the owners which is very damming to have that happen in less than a season.  His performances should definitely be better but attacking your own player (which we seem to do a lot at this club ) is not going to help the club or player. Hazard got attacked, Cesc, Costa, Jorginho got booed by his own fans same with Cucu. We need to stop this!!

I am not necessarily reading it that way actually. It is apparent to me that the points that a number of us old farts have said may actually be true, being that everyone can take their lovey dovey, happy chappy, emotional intelligence,  feelings wheel bollox and shove it where the sun don't shine.

These are elite athletes that are where they are through single minded determination their whole lives and as such they respond best to strong, ruthless leadership. They thrive on competitiveness, firstly with their own minds and bodies, then against teammates in similarly positions and then the opposition.

As a club we need, and more importantly these players need, a manager that knows exactly what he wants to achieve and will not be deviated from that. My way or the highway type of approach. I think Sterling acknowledges that there is likely to be some casualties but what will be left will be a group of like minded athletes all on the same page as the manager

16 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I am not necessarily reading it that way actually. It is apparent to me that the points that a number of us old farts have said may actually be true, being that everyone can take their lovey dovey, happy chappy, emotional intelligence,  feelings wheel bollox and shove it where the sun don't shine.

These are elite athletes that are where they are through single minded determination their whole lives and as such they respond best to strong, ruthless leadership. They thrive on competitiveness, firstly with their own minds and bodies, then against teammates in similarly positions and then the opposition.

As a club we need, and more importantly these players need, a manager that knows exactly what he wants to achieve and will not be deviated from that. My way or the highway type of approach. I think Sterling acknowledges that there is likely to be some casualties but what will be left will be a group of like minded athletes all on the same page as the manager

You don't know how much I want this to be true mate !

Lots of truth in that comment , not sure about the emotional feelings bit though. That really hurt my feelings you rotter.

 

 

Edited May 6, 20233 yr by The Rising Sun
Info

2 hours ago, El regreso said:

Which essentially confirms what we all know the owners f**ked us this season and now they players are calling them out publicly which could even get more toxic. Silva, Havertz, Sterling!! It seems the players have loss faith in the owners which is very damming to have that happen in less than a season.  His performances should definitely be better but attacking your own player (which we seem to do a lot at this club ) is not going to help the club or player. Hazard got attacked, Cesc, Costa, Jorginho got booed by his own fans same with Cucu. We need to stop this!!

As much as the owners have made massive mistakes in their first season, it is the player’s responsibility to show a level of professionalism that befits an elite athlete. A number of our players simply have not, content to  let others take the blame. Sterling is one of those who needs to look at himself and ask the question ‘Am I giving my best both on the field and at the training ground?’

4 hours ago, El regreso said:

Which essentially confirms what we all know the owners f**ked us this season and now they players are calling them out publicly which could even get more toxic. Silva, Havertz, Sterling!! It seems the players have loss faith in the owners which is very damming to have that happen in less than a season.  His performances should definitely be better but attacking your own player (which we seem to do a lot at this club ) is not going to help the club or player. Hazard got attacked, Cesc, Costa, Jorginho got booed by his own fans same with Cucu. We need to stop this!!

yeah - it's todd's fault that sterling stopped running and can't create. 

it's the owners fault that Havertz can't put his laces through a ball and tries to flick the ball at goal everytime. 

It's todd's fault that kante has been injured all season, and mase has hit the biggest dip in form, and james has either stopped trying or regressed (or both) etc etc etc

 

For sure there have been mistakes - but to blame everything on the new owners is lazy and uninspired...and wrong 

 

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

yeah - it's todd's fault that sterling stopped running and can't create. 

it's the owners fault that Havertz can't put his laces through a ball and tries to flick the ball at goal everytime. 

It's todd's fault that kante has been injured all season, and mase has hit the biggest dip in form, and james has either stopped trying or regressed (or both) etc etc etc

 

For sure there have been mistakes - but to blame everything on the new owners is lazy and uninspired...and wrong 

 

I’m going to jump to @El regresodefence on this. Of course the players have to give their all, ensure full fitness etc. But the “oxygen” needs to be right too. Instead, it’s clearly toxic. We’re always complaining about the players and calling for new recruits that apparently are going to turn our fortunes round. Then we get them and they become infected by this toxic air too.  We’ve witnessed a classic spiral where confidence starts to desert them. So while it might not be TB fault that Kante has been injured, I think the owners have played a part in players’ inability to perform to their potential, create or even just play a simple pass. Lampard said this too. The players don’t want to be losing. They hate this too.

I don’t rate Lampard as a coach. But we’ve all gone so “reverse halo effect” on Lampard that we don’t trust his assessment of something he’s clearly in a better position than any of us to assess. He’s absolved the players of blame - something that clearly doesn’t benefit him at all. Why would we not take his word for it?  

12 minutes ago, Dean said:

I’m going to jump to @El regresodefence on this. Of course the players have to give their all, ensure full fitness etc. But the “oxygen” needs to be right too. Instead, it’s clearly toxic. We’re always complaining about the players and calling for new recruits that apparently are going to turn our fortunes round. Then we get them and they become infected by this toxic air too.  We’ve witnessed a classic spiral where confidence starts to desert them. So while it might not be TB fault that Kante has been injured, I think the owners have played a part in players’ inability to perform to their potential, create or even just play a simple pass. Lampard said this too. The players don’t want to be losing. They hate this too.

I don’t rate Lampard as a coach. But we’ve all gone so “reverse halo effect” on Lampard that we don’t trust his assessment of something he’s clearly in a better position than any of us to assess. He’s absolved the players of blame - something that clearly doesn’t benefit him at all. Why would we not take his word for it?  

Do you believe Sterling and Aubamayang put a shift in on Tuesday Dean?

You don’t take over a business and gut all of the people who know how to run that business and expect it to continue as normal it’s dumb and stupid. Did Newcastle do that ? Did Liverpool do that when they got taken over ? We more than most needed continuity because of everything that happened.

You have phase transition slowly so you keep continuity. When have you heard of a takeover and the business doing the takeover get rid of most of the knowledge the thatbusiness.

You can find scapegoats in players because of your dislike for them but the stupidity of letting doctors go, backroom staff go and senior leaders was always going to have this outcome.

It shows money doesn't make you smart. 

Edited May 6, 20233 yr by El regreso

25 minutes ago, charierre said:

Do you believe Sterling and Aubamayang put a shift in on Tuesday Dean?

No I don’t but our sh*te season isn’t their fault one hardly plays the other was being use at wingback positions he never played in his life.

I am not going to turn on any player at Chelsea unless they disrespect the club I.e Lukaku.

Sterling is used to playing for a club that’s run like a well oiled machine then he turns up at Chelsea and it’s a clown show, the manager who wanted him gets sacked, the club goes and overbuys crowding the playing staff and then to top it off they hired a mid table manager.

Edited May 6, 20233 yr by El regreso

14 minutes ago, charierre said:

Do you believe Sterling and Aubamayang put a shift in on Tuesday Dean?

No I don’t think they did. But I don’t think they even can. Their confidence is shot through. I’m not saying they are blameless and you’ve also picked two - and certainly one - of the most dubious characters in our ranks.
 

We’ve probably all been in relatable situations before, suffered losses of confidence due to a bad environment- whether work or school. We then found ourselves In a better environment where we got it back. We shared some responsibility for that dip too but we’re only human. They’re only human too. For some reason we expect them to be better humans than the rest of us just because they’re very good at kicking a ball around.

in summary - players not entirely blameless. But It’s up to the owners and coaches to create an environment that coaxes the best out of their assets, including the bad eggs. 

9 minutes ago, El regreso said:

No I don’t but our sh*te season isn’t their fault one hardly plays the other was being use at wingback positions he never played in his life.

I am not going to turn on any player at Chelsea unless they disrespect the club I.e Lukaku.

Sterling is used to playing for a club that’s run like a well oiled machine then he turns up at Chelsea and it’s a clown show, the manager who wanted him gets sacked, clubs goes and overbuys crowding the playing staff and then to top it off they hired a mid table manager.

What has gone on behind the scenes is undoubtedly a sh1t show. All you ask of the players is they take responsibility for their own performances on the pitch and training ground. It’s called professional pride. We all have it in our own daily lives at work. It’s not about turning on them it’s calling it out when you see a lack of effort. The number of ex pro’s that have done that this week since the Gooners match is very noticeable.

43 minutes ago, Dean said:

I’m going to jump to @El regresodefence on this. Of course the players have to give their all, ensure full fitness etc. But the “oxygen” needs to be right too. Instead, it’s clearly toxic. We’re always complaining about the players and calling for new recruits that apparently are going to turn our fortunes round. Then we get them and they become infected by this toxic air too.  We’ve witnessed a classic spiral where confidence starts to desert them. So while it might not be TB fault that Kante has been injured, I think the owners have played a part in players’ inability to perform to their potential, create or even just play a simple pass. Lampard said this too. The players don’t want to be losing. They hate this too.

I don’t rate Lampard as a coach. But we’ve all gone so “reverse halo effect” on Lampard that we don’t trust his assessment of something he’s clearly in a better position than any of us to assess. He’s absolved the players of blame - something that clearly doesn’t benefit him at all. Why would we not take his word for it?  

It's far too simplistic and convienient to blame owners. It also doesn't explain why players have seemingly downed tools in other seasons to. Look back over the history of this forum and see the number of times the phrase "lost the dressing room" and "downed tools" have been used.

 As I have said for a long time - the club has been rotten. From top to bottom.

No one bit is to blame fully. 

- Players are to blame for not having the brass to fight and consistently put in a shift - choosing when they feel like turning up.

- Managers, past and present, are to blame for prioritising short term results over long term planning

- Previous regime to blame for not having a sound enough back room structure, and for not allowing managers to plan for long term.

- scouts are to blame for buying sh*t

- managers to blame some more for not piping up and say "don't buy this sh*t" or for advocating for buying the sh*t (ala auba as one example)

- new regime to blame, for coming in, going to hard to fast when the structure and foundations were not there. 

- Fans are to blame creating at times a toxic atmos and for not allowing a new manager who was in for the long term not to have the space, in a season of unprecedented disruption, to f**k up and learn on the job.

- media are to blame for constantly perpetuating the negativity.

So many things have been wrong - and we are rotten. This isn't new. It has been there for years. 
 

Some on here come in and say "oh but we won the ucl etc etc" - but that is part of the issue, where we were putting short term bandages over a disease that needed medicine to cure. 

 

Edited May 6, 20233 yr by nonotnowjim

3 minutes ago, charierre said:

What has gone on behind the scenes is undoubtedly a sh1t show. All you ask of the players is they take responsibility for their own performances on the pitch and training ground. It’s called professional pride. We all have it in our own daily lives at work. It’s not about turning on them it’s calling it out when you see a lack of effort. The number of ex pro’s that have done that this week since the Gooners match is very noticeable.

I agree yet when asking players to take responsibility they need to be on the same wavelength and make the right runs and passes.

Easier when the team remains the same yet with two waves of players purchases, a constant and ongoing injury crisis it is much harder to build up that understanding as the team changes weekly.

Have to admit, one of the few good decisions we did make was getting Vivell in

 

All of our January signings so far are looking extremely promising, Madueke, Enzo, Badiashile and Mudryk all look like they can be key parts of our team for years to come

 

Honestly, it's a shame we didn't bring him in the summer, we could have spent that money so much better, and we most likely don't see Tuchel getting sacked either

16 minutes ago, Drogba1 said:

Have to admit, one of the few good decisions we did make was getting Vivell in

 

All of our January signings so far are looking extremely promising, Madueke, Enzo, Badiashile and Mudryk all look like they can be key parts of our team for years to come

 

Honestly, it's a shame we didn't bring him in the summer, we could have spent that money so much better, and we most likely don't see Tuchel getting sacked either

I'm not going to go too far just yet. Mudryk still looks nowhere near ready at this level, it's only really Enzo and Badiashile that have looked consistently good. Madueke has had two good games, now he has to sustain it. Let's not forget that Fofana has disappeared off the face of the earth, Santos can't play yet (and doesn't exactly look like anything special from what I have seen) and Joao Felix has been more of a miss than a hit.

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

It's far too simplistic and convienient to blame owners. It also doesn't explain why players have seemingly downed tools in other seasons to. Look back over the history of this forum and see the number of times the phrase "lost the dressing room" and "downed tools" have been used.

 As I have said for a long time - the club has been rotten. From top to bottom.

No one bit is to blame fully. 

- Players are to blame for not having the brass to fight and consistently put in a shift - choosing when they feel like turning up.

- Managers, past and present, are to blame for prioritising short term results over long term planning

- Previous regime to blame for not having a sound enough back room structure, and for not allowing managers to plan for long term.

- scouts are to blame for buying sh*t

- managers to blame some more for not piping up and say "don't buy this sh*t" or for advocating for buying the sh*t (ala auba as one example)

- new regime to blame, for coming in, going to hard to fast when the structure and foundations were not there. 

- Fans are to blame creating at times a toxic atmos and for not allowing a new manager who was in for the long term not to have the space, in a season of unprecedented disruption, to f**k up and learn on the job.

- media are to blame for constantly perpetuating the negativity.

So many things have been wrong - and we are rotten. This isn't new. It has been there for years. 
 

Some on here come in and say "oh but we won the ucl etc etc" - but that is part of the issue, where we were putting short term bandages over a disease that needed medicine to cure. 

 

I don’t disagree with much of what you’re saying, though on player power ironically I think this has been less of a factor in the current crisis than previous ones.
 

Anyway, there are as you say plenty of legacy issues and factors beyond the owners’ control. But to my mind, there’s enough stuff within their control that they could have done a whole lot better. 
 

At the risk of coming across even more simplistic, at the end of the day - owners gotta own it 😉 

7 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

It's far too simplistic and convienient to blame owners.

No, it isn't. 

Fans turned on him today

3 hours ago, Dean said:

I don’t disagree with much of what you’re saying, though on player power ironically I think this has been less of a factor in the current crisis than previous ones.
 

Anyway, there are as you say plenty of legacy issues and factors beyond the owners’ control. But to my mind, there’s enough stuff within their control that they could have done a whole lot better. 
 

At the risk of coming across even more simplistic, at the end of the day - owners gotta own it 😉 

I think we will see when Pochettino comes in next season (looks likely). 

I do agree with a lot of what Jim is saying, we were due a crisis like this given how ridiculous our club philosophy has been for some time. It's made managers commit to short-term success, and the poor transfers over the years have not helped. We keep jumping from system to system only for it to eventually fall apart under one manager to start again under a new one.

The Potter approach I understand to an extent. I didn't rate him in the slightest, I get that the club wanted to try something different, start a project. But I still hand on heart believe the Potter appointment was a joke and we're lucky he's gone. The owners made a cockup by giving such a big contract so a guy with no experience at top level and just had a couple of good seasons at Brighton. Top that with all the silly signings only to sack the manager after the window... It made no sense at all. 

Boehlys's passion and enthusiasm I'm all for it! It's something we all wanted from our next owner. Unfortunately, it's also what's made a mess of things because he's not experienced enough to be making these decisions at the football club and we've paid a big price for it this season. 

I do, however, believe that there has been a big issue with player power at this club, and a horrible system of hiring and firing managers to get us short-term success. At the minute, we're running out of managers to hire and now Pochettino is looking like a golden egg, when a season ago he wouldn't even be in our top 10 picks.

We can all agree on this, the next pick has to be right. We've got a great side, lots of good players coming through the ranks next season. We need the right manager to come in and get this team playing. If Pochettino ends up failing, I dare say things could really be fatal at this club. We can't afford another season like this. 

18 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I do agree with a lot of what Jim is saying,

Me too 🙂

14 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I think we will see when Pochettino comes in next season (looks likely). 

I do agree with a lot of what Jim is saying, we were due a crisis like this given how ridiculous our club philosophy has been for some time. It's made managers commit to short-term success, and the poor transfers over the years have not helped. We keep jumping from system to system only for it to eventually fall apart under one manager to start again under a new one.

The Potter approach I understand to an extent. I didn't rate him in the slightest, I get that the club wanted to try something different, start a project. But I still hand on heart believe the Potter appointment was a joke and we're lucky he's gone. The owners made a cockup by giving such a big contract so a guy with no experience at top level and just had a couple of good seasons at Brighton. Top that with all the silly signings only to sack the manager after the window... It made no sense at all. 

Boehlys's passion and enthusiasm I'm all for it! It's something we all wanted from our next owner. Unfortunately, it's also what's made a mess of things because he's not experienced enough to be making these decisions at the football club and we've paid a big price for it this season. 

I do, however, believe that there has been a big issue with player power at this club, and a horrible system of hiring and firing managers to get us short-term success. At the minute, we're running out of managers to hire and now Pochettino is looking like a golden egg, when a season ago he wouldn't even be in our top 10 picks.

We can all agree on this, the next pick has to be right. We've got a great side, lots of good players coming through the ranks next season. We need the right manager to come in and get this team playing. If Pochettino ends up failing, I dare say things could really be fatal at this club. We can't afford another season like this. 

I cited selling KDB/Salah for the short term title as the start of the chain of events that led to this moment but after a long chat about it with a friend the other day I think the start was actually in 2008/2009.

The clear warning signs that we needed to refresh the squad and bring the average age down was there, Hiddink even said so, and while we did remain one of the best around (and won the league) for a couple of years boy did it come home to roost in Carlo's second season.

If you think about it we've been playing catch up ever since, we tried to belatedly compensate for letting our squad grow too old to compete consistently by investing in young players who we then sold to fund Mourinho's quick title where some of the players (Ivan, Matic, Cesc, Terry) were worked so hard getting over the line they were never the same again, while also Hazard injured in his hip in the run in and we know how that f**ked him in 15/16. Then Conte came in with the ultimate sticky plaster system but when that got found it we found ourselves as far away from the top of the league as ever (although the winning mentality around the club kept us winning/competing in the cups). Then we tried to get a Pep like style of manager in to give us a much needed change to more modern tactics, who was hounded out and replaced with Lampard, then we got Tuchel in who found a way to construct an elite system of pressing, interplay and movement and thought adding a player who is the athesis of all of those things to it was a good idea, then ofcourse there's last summer.

Maybe in some way having Hazard (and then Tuchel) papering over the cracks for years was a detriment, if we didn't have such a safety net maybe we'd have been forced into getting our house in order sooner.

6 hours ago, g3.7 said:

No, it isn't. 

yes it is 

8 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

yes it is 

On 06/05/2023 at 00:01, RMH said:

Do you have any actual proof for the claim that we are 800m in debt and that we are the Club with the greatest debt in the PL? Was that taking into account for in the amount of money they had to spend by contract, and have you accounted the intakes from sponsors, match day gains, merchandise, etc? I’m just curious as to how all of you know that much about the economics of a football club like Chelsea and all the ins and outs, unless you obviously are part of the club’s financial structure.

On another note, I thought that Marina was the root of all evil at Chelsea….

A couple of quick googles searches would get you a long way mate. Its publically available.

This article also explains a bit. You can also get more info you check out Blueco 22 ltd which is the name of the holding company that owns us.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

A couple of quick googles searches would get you a long way mate. Its publically available.

This article also explains a bit. You can also get more info you check out Blueco 22 ltd which is the name of the holding company that owns us.

 

 

 

There says we’ve borrowed money and we have that debt, nowhere it says that we are f**ked, that we can’t repay it (it should be accounted against all the earnings of the club) or that we are the club with the highest debt. Also, according to the article, it’s common in American sports and even At. Madrid have used the same borrowing system. So I don’t buy your “we’re doomed” take on that. I guess that now that Marina is gone you need another scapegoat to complain about Chelsea.