4 hours ago, Dean said:

Fair enough. For the record, and probably no need to clarify but I will anyway - by praising klopp I’m not criticising Lampard. I think Klopp would be better with our current team based on his experience. But Lampard has a crack at becoming a great manager for sure and I wouldn’t think for a second about swapping them (as if that would happen anyway). Something I’m pretty sure we can agree on - the fact it took Klopp a couple of seasons is all the more reason for patience with Lampard.

I personally don’t think kloop does better with this current team than lamps.  Liverpool’s two wide players have scored 28 between them this season our 3 wide players has scored 10. Frank has done a fantastic job to get us to fourth this season. 

Klopp has done a fantastic job what he has done really well is recruit fantastically well and he plays a system that he sticks with. He has also spent 425 million and been there 5 seasons. Many in the media like to portray Kloop as the guy who built this wonderful team on a shoe string budget because it’s Liverpool. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

IMO no Chelsea manager in the last 15 years had the same level of trust from the club that Klopp and Pep had from day 1. Conte won the league in his first season and the club still didn't want to back him, sadly his Morata signing was a tragedy, I can only imagine how things would have been if he actually did turn a super-sub into a striker that would lead the attack...

Klopp being fully backed in the market is a myth. He has had one big spend on the back of the Coutinho sale and that's it.

15 minutes ago, Argo said:

Klopp being fully backed in the market is a myth. He has had one big spend on the back of the Coutinho sale and that's it.

Except he always got the exact players he wanted, every transfer window for 4 years.

Coutinho for his tactic wasn't even needed he prefers more defensive midfielders while his front 3 get all the space they need. Looking back from his interviews he was saying how he's against spending much money and that's not the football how he sees it, he later on did the exact opposite and the club backed him fully, he first invested in his attacking core as his tactic does require fast paced players otherwise it doesn't work, then proceeded to further invest into defense.

He started in a setup that only had room for growth and his club fully supported his vision of how he wants his team to play, compare that to our managers that even after winning didn't get any favours nor credit it's day and night.

15 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Except he always got the exact players he wanted, every transfer window for 4 years.

So you think he wanted no signing last summer? Or didn't want to upgrade his keepers and defenders before he did? Or had his heart set on Wjnaldium in a summer rivals were getting the likes of Kante and Pogba?

He got "backed" because he got a windfall in a sale, nothing more nothing less.

Edited January 23, 20206 yr by Argo

1 minute ago, Argo said:

So you think he wanted no signing last summer? Or didn't want to upgrade his keepers and defenders before he did? Or had his heart set on Wjnaldium in a summer rivals were getting the likes of Kante and Pogba?

He got "backed" because he got a windfall in a sale, nothing more nothing less.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes it easier. You honestly believe that Klopp had any problems with the club? He said it himself that it was EASY to sell Coutinho and that the decision went through him.

I do believe that he didn't want to disturb much and didn't need any new player, the results prove it...His tactic made Salah to record some of the most impressive seasons this league has ever seen from any player and this year the conversion rate of his team after around 23 games is at a staggering 50%. He really seems unhappy not signing anyone last summer poor him right?

7 minutes ago, Argo said:

So you think he wanted no signing last summer? Or didn't want to upgrade his keepers and defenders before he did? Or had his heart set on Wjnaldium in a summer rivals were getting the likes of Kante and Pogba?

He got "backed" because he got a windfall in a sale, nothing more nothing less.

I agree with this. Last Jan they were rumoured to be in for Pulisic but were put off by the price. I think he has been very smart in the market, making use of analytics and knowing how/when to get quickly ahead of the market before everyone else. Shaqiri was a £12m signing from a relegated team, Robertson was a £3.5m signing from a relegated Hull and Minamino was from Salzburg. Already they are looking at a RB from Vitesse who most top clubs wouldn’t even consider. 

Any other manager in his position will be asking for £50m+ signing but he understands like with Naby Keita, there are no guarantees.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

So you think he wanted no signing last summer? Or didn't want to upgrade his keepers and defenders before he did? Or had his heart set on Wjnaldium in a summer rivals were getting the likes of Kante and Pogba?

He got "backed" because he got a windfall in a sale, nothing more nothing less.

Indeed and the rolling successes have no doubt  helped too?

21 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Keep telling yourself that if it makes it easier. You honestly believe that Klopp had any problems with the club? He said it himself that it was EASY to sell Coutinho and that the decision went through him.

Of course he was happy to sell Coutinho, it was the only way the defensive reinforcements he needed for him to compete were going to be funded. 

In an ideal world however he (like any manager) would choose both.

Edited January 23, 20206 yr by Argo

36 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

compare that to our managers that even after winning didn't get any favours nor credit it's day and night.

yeah, spot on. Poor Mourinho! Poor Conte! And poor us! All the violins in the world couldn’t depict the misery we’ve been through since that stingy Russian came in. It’s just not fair. 

39 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

 

39 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He started in a setup that only had room for growth and his club fully supported his vision of how he wants his team to play, compare that to our managers that even after winning didn't get any favours nor credit it's day and night.

So to clarify, you believe Lloris Karius and Ragnar Klavan were his first choice targets?

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

 

So to clarify, you believe Lloris Karius and Ragnar Klavan were his first choice targets?

Obviously he's very unhappy with his signings, Liverpool never backed him it's only a myth, poor him not being capable of losing a game because of it...

Give me a break please, whoever he didn't want he sold and bought a player he wanted for more money,  it just took him a few windows to do it but the club always backed him.

12 minutes ago, Dean said:

yeah, spot on. Poor Mourinho! Poor Conte! And poor us! All the violins in the world couldn’t depict the misery we’ve been through since that stingy Russian came in. It’s just not fair. 

Even Mourinho needed to have a personal talk with Roman when he wanted to sign Drogba. Had our club backed Conte he would have had Alex Sandro today and not Emerson.

Look at the amount of the managers we sacked, I imagine if Liverpool had Ancelotti that won them the league and FA Cup they wouldn't have sacked him. It's much harder to anyone that comes here, Conte won the league in his first season (something that Pep and Klopp couldn't do) and yet the club refused to listen to him thinking that we are just that good we don't need any more good players...

28 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Obviously he's very unhappy with his signings, Liverpool never backed him it's only a myth, poor him not being capable of losing a game because of it...

Give me a break please, whoever he didn't want he sold and bought a player he wanted for more money,  it just took him a few windows to do it but the club always backed him.

How about you answer my questions instead of swerving them.

Do you honestly believe he was happy with Karius and Mignolet as his keeper options for two years?

Do you honestly believe his first choice was Wjnaldium when Kante and Pogba were on the market?

Just because he choses to get on with his job and actually earn his multi million salary instead of acting like a pechaulant schoolchild like Conte doesn't mean he gets it ALL his own way.

28 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Conte won the league in his first season (something that Pep and Klopp couldn't do) and yet the club refused to listen to him 

Yeah, maybe we should have "listened to him" and got him Radja Naingolan, a player he inherited at his next club and decided he wasn't actually good enough after all.

Edited January 23, 20206 yr by Argo

33 minutes ago, Argo said:

How about you answer my questions instead of swerving them.

Do you honestly believe he was happy with Karius and Mignolet as his keeper options for two years?

Do you honestly believe his first choice was Wjnaldium when Kante and Pogba were on the market?

Just because he choses to get on with his job and actually earn his multi million salary instead of acting like a pechaulant schoolchild like Conte doesn't mean he gets it ALL his own way.

Yeah, maybe we should have "listened to him" and got him Radja Naingolan, a player he inherited at his next club and decided he wasn't actually good enough after all.

Sold both when he could.

Maybe if he was in Real Madrid he would have done it faster? I don't know what you expect, were we happy with Morata? How long has he been here, ah right 2 years, never mind.

Wijnaldum has been his starter for how much, 4 years? Was Liverpool ever in the conversation for Pogba/Kante or are you just inventing now for the sake of it because it sounds like the next thing you will say is why didn't Liverpool back him to sign Messi or Ronaldo if they were really backing him...?! 

Look at his results, 2 CL finals in a row, unbeaten in the league so far and you really think he wanted to sign someone in the summer but the club turned their back on him? When did he have problems with the club not backing him? Whatever he wanted he got it, the players specially for his tactic, the time which our own managers didn't really have. 

Sarri ended last season in top 3 and people still wanted to sack him even if he actually did a lot in his first season compared to how the club looked the season prior to that, the difference between us and Man City was what, 30,40 points? Then comes Sarri, changes the TOTAL structure of how we play, gets a top 3 finish without a striker, wins some silverware against Arsenal and till this day fans would say that he should have been sacked anyway, even if he actually proved that he was good enough to keep his job.

Conclusion, had Klopp been our manager without winning anything in his first 2 seasons he would have been sacked just like the rest. But we now make of him like he's so great, pfff our own managers started better than him and were still sacked! That fact alone is all you need to know. Frank Lampard can be better than Klopp, but he needs time.

I believe that there is a strong correlation between the club having a good relationship with the manager and the actual results of the club. Call me crazy right?

 

Edited January 23, 20206 yr by Gol15

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

When did he have problems with the club not backing him? 

When he had to make do with bang average defenders and incompetent goalkeepers for two years, or is this the point you tell me he was happy with them and didn't want to upgrade?

Edited January 23, 20206 yr by Argo

24 minutes ago, Argo said:

When he had to make do with bang average defenders and incompetent goalkeepers for two years, or is this the point you tell me he was happy with them and didn't want to upgrade?

No one can change the entire team in one season. We did it with Mourinho first time around but that is a rarity. Fact is was backed up to sign the best defender in the league when we were in for him too but thought he was too expensive! Hell when Conte asked for Koulibaly, that time Napoli wanted 50 million we didnt back him, nor with Alex Sandro and in regards to nainngolan he didn't want tocome here anyway and i was delighted that Conte got rid off him immediately, besides that he was a unpopular figure at Inter milan. Question is are we backing our managers properly and making the right signings to have them succeed? Dont think so and not surprised either since we don't even know who actually decides whom we sign. 

38 minutes ago, Argo said:

When he had to make do with bang average defenders and incompetent goalkeepers for two years, or is this the point you tell me he was happy with them and didn't want to upgrade?

Oh by the way when he had bang average defenders and goalkeepers he won absolutely nothing but they still stood by him and eventually got him world class defender and world class goalkeeper. Not bad eeey. 

33 minutes ago, Argo said:

When he had to make do with bang average defenders and incompetent goalkeepers for two years, or is this the point you tell me he was happy with them and didn't want to upgrade?

44 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Sold both when he could.

Maybe if he was in Real Madrid he would have done it faster?

did he want to upgrade - yes

did he upgrade - yes

did it take time - yes

did he get the time for all that - yes

does it mean he was backed - yes

does it mean our managers weren't - exactly.

 

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Klopp being fully backed in the market is a myth. He has had one big spend on the back of the Coutinho sale and that's it.

This is only accurate if you define "big spend" as being over 180million euros....... because he's spend more than 170million in two seasons at LFC, and 3 of the 5 he's spent over 125million euros.

Now his big purchases have all worked out which is impressive, and he has showed he deserved that backing......but ya, Klopp has gotten backed in the market pretty squarely......as for this summer, maybe Klopp wanted to splash big again....or maybe he was thinking "well this squad isn't old at all, it's clicking and only getting better with time, and since we won the CL and finished a single point away from top of the BPL with a plus 67 GD and having the best form in the league ending the season......do I want to risk ruining this dynamic unless their is some dynamite deal to be had"?

From my perspective, and admittedly I am not a football manager guru, sometimes the smart move for a manager is to keep the squad you have......and if there no real need to strengthen any part of your team (where would you suggest?) then is adding a big name signature worth it? Ya maybe you improve the team, or maybe you mes up the dynamic/player flops, and all you did in the process was pile even more pressure on yourself as manager.

The issue with Carlo is that his squad was actually weakened after he won the double with us, and not just he wasn't backed getting who he wanted......he squad was actively weakened after winning the title.

Conte we all saw the issues, and can anyone say it was addressed as LFC's past issues were? Of course not.....tbf, maybe Klopp is gone too if he acted like Conte did.....so thats an important distinction to factor that Conte's performances merited backing more than Klopp, but his attitude might have made a big difference in getting that backing.

But this LFC side......I admit I remain as ignorant as possible about the,...... what need were they screaming for in this past summer?  What would have been a viable upgrade not realistic only in the pages of EA's FIFA games?

Klopps probably been backed better than almost any manager sans Mourinho first era........ but he's shown it a good investment, and all in all while we can complain about specific situations re backing as Chelsea fans, in general we have little to nothing to complain about re the club being backed by Roman....we might not agree with all the decision, and rightfully so in hindsight, but he's spent an ungodly amount of money funding the success we've enjoyed for a decade and a half.

 

Oh, and more importantly than seeing Frank backed in the transfer market would be backing him with patience.  IMO....... but both would be nice.

30 minutes ago, Gentian said:

No one can change the entire team in one season. We did it with Mourinho first time around but that is a rarity. Fact is was backed up to sign the best defender in the league when we were in for him too but thought he was too expensive! Hell when Conte asked for Koulibaly, that time Napoli wanted 50 million we didnt back him, nor with Alex Sandro and in regards to nainngolan he didn't want tocome here anyway and i was delighted that Conte got rid off him immediately, besides that he was a unpopular figure at Inter milan. Question is are we backing our managers properly and making the right signings to have them succeed? Dont think so and not surprised either since we don't even know who actually decides whom we sign. 

Point is everyone wanted Conte "fully backed" and one of those players he wanted was someone he shafted as soon as he got hold of him at his next club.

It's no coincidence that Klopp has only got major funds once he got it in a sale, I'm sure he would have loved to have kept Coutinho and got his world class reinforcements in at the back but he couldn't. There's slowly building then there's still having Karius, Moreno and Lovren as regulars two years in.

I mean look at them now for example, now the Coutinho money has dried up they're signing a cheap and cheerful winger from the Austrian league while some of their league rivals are by all accounts going all in for Sancho.

I'm not saying we are a star at fully backing managers, but this notion that Klopp has been handed all his plan As on a gold plate for the duration of his time at Liverpool is hilarious. The difference between him and Conte is he accepts it can't always happen, accepts a plan B/C/D (Ox, Robertson, Wiljnaldium) and focuses on actually earning his millions by coaching his team instead of whining about how he's overachieving while losing 7-1 on aggregate in the space of a week.

Edited January 24, 20206 yr by Argo

Makes me laugh when the same posts come up every now and then regarding Conte and who he wanted, it's like they are sitting in on the transfer meetings 😂 if every manager got the players they wanted then they would spend 500m plus every window ffs.

Edited January 24, 20206 yr by Ernie_blue

7 hours ago, Barry Bridges said:

in general we have little to nothing to complain about re the club being backed by Roman....we might not agree with all the decision, and rightfully so in hindsight, but he's spent an ungodly amount of money funding the success we've enjoyed for a decade and a half.

 

Quite. This is what I was getting at, Gol15.

7 hours ago, Argo said:

Point is everyone wanted Conte "fully backed" and one of those players he wanted was someone he shafted as soon as he got hold of him at his next club.

It's no coincidence that Klopp has only got major funds once he got it in a sale, I'm sure he would have loved to have kept Coutinho and got his world class reinforcements in at the back but he couldn't. There's slowly building then there's still having Karius, Moreno and Lovren as regulars two years in.

I mean look at them now for example, now the Coutinho money has dried up they're signing a cheap and cheerful winger from the Austrian league while some of their league rivals are by all accounts going all in for Sancho.

I'm not saying we are a star at fully backing managers, but this notion that Klopp has been handed all his plan As on a gold plate for the duration of his time at Liverpool is hilarious. The difference between him and Conte is he accepts it can't always happen, accepts a plan B/C/D (Ox, Robertson, Wiljnaldium) and focuses on actually earning his millions by coaching his team instead of whining about how he's overachieving while losing 7-1 on aggregate in the space of a week.

But the point is the club backed him, they realised the deficiencies in the squad (as you have pointed out) and gave him time... the time factor is the one thing we have lacked both as a club and more recently as fans (see comments in this thread) was Klopp handed everything on a plate on day one NO, was he given the time to develop a project (having shown ability to manage) YES did he then clear out the players who were under performing YES was he then given the funds to get the players in he wanted YES.

Yes they may have used the windfall from Coutinho to fund the players but isnt that what all clubs do (or try to at  least) 

 

12 hours ago, Belfast_blue5 said:

.....................................  Liverpool’s two wide players have scored 28 between them this season our 3 wide players has scored 10. .......................................................

 

 

In identical systems with identical team mates against identical opponents?

10 hours ago, Argo said:

How about you answer my questions instead of swerving them.

@Argo you are arguing with the master of that debating tactic who seems to enjoy getting into arguments with a huge variety of people and tries to defend some quite inane and ridiculous positions by droning on and on like a Tory politician trying to avoid justifying his leader,  ignoring any and all  counter-arguments, no matter how cogently and rationally put.

30 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

But the point is the club backed him, they realised the deficiencies in the squad (as you have pointed out) and gave him time... the time factor is the one thing we have lacked both as a club and more recently as fans (see comments in this thread) was Klopp handed everything on a plate on day one NO, was he given the time to develop a project (having shown ability to manage) YES did he then clear out the players who were under performing YES was he then given the funds to get the players in he wanted YES.

Yes they may have used the windfall from Coutinho to fund the players but isnt that what all clubs do (or try to at  least) 

 

Our club has given every manager since RDM time. 

Jose was turfed out when it was clear he had poisoned the entire club and we were fighting a relegation battle. 

Conte was sacked when it was clear he didn't want to be there. He turned down an extension and spent the entire season moaning.

Sarri quit. 

Our managers get time from the board. Our fans recently have been quicker to turn on the manager. 

Lampard will get time. Thankfully the fans will take longer to turn on him than any other manager.