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Declan Rice to Chelsea?


Marrone
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3 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

The absolute Pikachu shock on some faces when we don't go after Rice next year. 

It's evident his profile isn't translated towards a progressive system. 

This obsession with him because he supports Chelsea, Mount best mate and he played in Cobham.

Our fanbase show a WestHam captain more love than some of our players.

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Many fair points made in here. A couple of points to add:

- I think we're likely going to need two top class midfielders to replace Kante and Jorginho in the coming years, I fear for the club once Kante leaves, I think much of our quality relies on his ability to cover the pitch in both directions.

- I believe James will eventually move inside ala Kimmich which may mitigate this partially.

- I think overall runners and distributors work better in England than pure passers. The game is largely built up in the backline now and the role of the midfielder seems to be more about clever positoning and movement to break the lines with the ball and clever pressing without it.

- Rice and Bellingham are two good English options, Rice is more of a traditional holding player but seems to do well in the English system which is similar to our approach in recent years. In the end it depends on price. 

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2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I think overall runners and distributors work better in England than pure passers. The game is largely built up in the backline now and the role of the midfielder seems to be more about clever positoning and movement to break the lines with the ball and clever pressing without it.

 

Hmm Thiago is doing fine for pool. Eriksen has been credited by many as the key reason why united has been better. Cesc was brilliant for us. 

I don't think it is about runner or passer. Like most it is about who do you have and what is your plan. 

 

 

 

 

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On 21/09/2022 at 14:32, Argo said:

He's 'impressed' in a compact underdog system that duped Real Madrid into thinking Thomas Gravesen was good enough for them (likewise City/Lescott) and gave Tony Hibbert a PL career.

He impressed in an England team against world class players that made it the further than they ever usually get too. 

23 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Rice hasn't shown in any direct matchup against Jorginho that he's a better player at all (both in club and national teams) let alone a better passer or more intellingent and honestly a bigger goal threat really? You're either fully in love with Rice and have his picture on your forehead during pride parade or you're just fully clueless, if it's both I wouldn't be suprised. 

The irony of you talking about love of a player when you jump to Jorginho's defence over the slightest comment, laughable. 

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31 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

He impressed in an England team against world class players that made it the further than they ever usually get too. 

If we're going down that route Kalvin Phillips looked light years ahead of him, especially in possesion.

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8 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

 

The irony of you talking about love of a player when you jump to Jorginho's defence over the slightest comment, laughable. 

Laughable could be that you somehow believe that anything you ever said about Jorginho could be classified as "the slightest comment", you're really hating the guy to the fullest in every single comment for the past few years and then you come first to me implying that I'm trying to convince someone that Rice isn't good because of Jorginho even? Even though I never mentioned Jorginho to begin with, you're so hateful that I suggest that you should take a break or something, specially since you go as far with that comment as if I wasn't arguably the most hyped in regards when we were going after De Jong and Alvarez, you see basically most of your substance is just baseless ad-hominem that is very very far away from the reality.

But also at the bottom line, your own jumping in the defense of Rice is what exactly? Jumping to take dumb takes about Jorginho over and over again? You're the one that is laughable. When I talk about Rice or De Jong, I don't need to mention Jorginho at all, you on the other hand can't talk about Rice without trying to first and foremost push down Jorginho and that's your whole repertoire. RIP. 

Edited by Gol15
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10 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

A system that looks to take the initiative in the match by dominating the ball and progressing further forward to the opposition box.

Declan Rice's best football came under a compact, reactionary system under Moyes and Southgate. 

 

 

So what you want is basically possession football. 

Rice will have 0 problems playing in possession football team. It comes down what you want him to do. If you want him to sit at the base making 1000 short passes per game then he is probably not your guy (I think you can coach him to do this but not ideal).  But why do you want him to do this though, get a Modric, a kroos, a Thiago or a cesc and let them do that while rice is sitting back and at times get forward. You can even drop rice as CB in possession. You have a gazillion option. 

Playing in possession football even in system as slow as pep system does not require you to be xavi and Iniesta, you can't be as bad as Bakayoko but you don't need to be xavi. 

I forget to add I assume by possession football you mean Pep's city 2021/2022 not 2022/2023 because in this current version of city, rice is probably better than Rodri. 

 

Edited by Bob stark
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10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

So what you want is basically possession football. 

Rice will have 0 problems playing in possession football team. It comes down what you want him to do. If you want him to sit at the base making 1000 short passes per game then he is probably not your guy (I think you can coach him to do this but not ideal).  But why do you want him to do this though, get a Modric, a kroos, a Thiago or a cesc and let them do that while rice is sitting back and at times get forward. You can even drop rice as CB in possession. You have a gazillion option. 

Playing in possession football even in system as slow as pep system does not require you to be xavi and Iniesta, you can't be as bad as Bakayoko but you don't need to be xavi. 

I forget to add I assume by possession football you mean Pep's city 2021/2022 not 2022/2023 because in this current version of city, rice is probably better than Rodri. 

 

On what evidence? 

Rice isn't being asked to retain and progress the ball every match week at West Ham. You are taking a midfielder from a pragmatic system to one which would have Rice see and retain the ball far more than he's ever used to in his career. When has Rice ever been asked to retain and progress the ball against elite midfielders? He hasn't. His job is to sit deep, forgive possession, remain compact, and hit on the counter. 

As much as I criticize Jorginho, his technical quality was a huge part in why we literally walked circles around Real's midfield in 2021. There is virtually no way we replicate that with Rice. Unless you want to dumb down our approach and go back to the Conte era of football, I don't see how Rice can come in and be an upgrade on Jorginho. 

 

Edited by Sconnie Blue
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I just heard he came out last night and said that England score loads of goals in training and that they’re going to be good at the World Cup because of that.

He's as delusional as Southgate, the thought of this guy being our record signing and next long term skipper....

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55 minutes ago, Argo said:

I just heard he came out last night and said that England score loads of goals in training and that they’re going to be good at the World Cup because of that.

He's as delusional as Southgate, the thought of this guy being our record signing and next long term skipper....

England went to semi n final the last two tournament. 

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4 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

England went to semi n final the last two tournament. 

Yep and i remember similar arguments being used to defend Ole, Mctominay, Wan Bissaka, Maguire etc when United finished 2nd and made a European final.

I fully expect Gareth to have his Ole vs Liverpool moment at the world cup, well another as he's already had one of them against Hungary.

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2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Yep and i remember similar arguments being used to defend Ole, Mctominay, Wan Bissaka, Maguire etc when United finished 2nd and made a European final.

I fully expect Gareth to have his Ole vs Liverpool moment at the world cup, well another as he's already had one of them against Hungary.

Your argument make 0 sense. Ole finished 2nd and made European final. He did well. 

So why everything went south for ole last year. Honestly, it is so obvious. Heck I even predicted it and it got nothing to do with ole.

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4 hours ago, Argo said:

Yep and i remember similar arguments being used to defend Ole, Mctominay, Wan Bissaka, Maguire etc when United finished 2nd and made a European final.

I fully expect Gareth to have his Ole vs Liverpool moment at the world cup, well another as he's already had one of them against Hungary.

I can actually see a Woy on the horizon at the WC

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On 24/09/2022 at 14:57, Bob stark said:

Your argument make 0 sense. Ole finished 2nd and made European final. He did well. 

So why everything went south for ole last year. Honestly, it is so obvious. Heck I even predicted it and it got nothing to do with ole.

In isolation maybe but it was so obvious he especially with those players weren't getting back to where they should be.

I'll give Southgate his dues for 2018 but Euro 2020 he f**ked up, me a random football fan could tell how frightened Saka looked in that game, to keep him out there was bad enough but to give him the 5th penalty was mindblowingly moronic management.

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