One thing that must be dropped IMO is sending the ref to look at the screen after taking 4, 5 or 6 minutes to look at the incident. If VAR think a mistake was made after all the examination then that's that, no need to have the on field ref corroborate. Those decisions will almost never get overturned anyway. Completely useless exercise.

7 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

I agree with the principle of VAR - and for me it isn't ambitious enough. I do not accept that Refs are able to decide a game by making decisions, which at times, are scandelous and indefensible.  I want 100% correct decisions, and the only way to get that is by having a professional, and consistent application of a VAR system.

The problem is that the officials implementing it are absolutely a) useless and b) inconsistent. In my mind, as I have said before, we need managers challenges.

We should:

- stop the current VAR review process, the back room team are far too often wrong and inconsistent.

- Instead we should have a challenge system. 3 challenges per half, per team - to be made by one of the 2 managers within a set time (30 seconds?)of any given incident.

- If a manager challenges any decision, then the Ref MUST go to a screen, watch the replay, and decide to uphold his initial decision or overturn. Whatever happens, he  MUST explain to both managers s why he is making his decision. This conversation would be broadcast, on mic, for the watching world to hear.

- By implementing this we would

    a) cut out the allegations of corruption from the VAR backroom officials;

    b) Put more power into the hands of the managers to challenge perceived unjust decisions

    c) Get live, and in real-time, justification of why decisions being made -

    d)  Have greater accountability and transparency from refs

    e) We get the added drama of challenges and watching the conversation happen.

    f) the only downside that I see, is that it would add to the length of the game. But to clarify - I don't care about the delay....I just want decisions to be correct.

 

Take the example of the Cucurella hair pull by Romero. We all saw it. The ref didnt give a foul, and Spurs scored. In this case, the Chelsea manager could have challenged, the ref would have been forced to look at the reply, and would have seen the clear hair pull. The ref would then have had to decide if pulling hair is allowed in the rules of the game. If he thinks it is, then he has to justify it, and explain his decision to the manager, being broadcast to the world..... the more likely decision would be that he would see that pulling hair is not allowed, and so therefore calls the foul, and ruled out the spurs goal.

Good post Jim.

This would work much better than the current system. You just need to make all the video replays available pitch side for the match referee. Absolutely no requirement for a team of people in Stockley Park, which just smacks of job creation for the sake of empire building to me, Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a nut ... 

So in essence, turn ⚽ into 🏈 

Edited May 16, 20242 yr by Sconnie Blue

Getting rid of VAR doesn't solve the problem.

Why is it that VAR has to go? why can't the PGMOL be scrapped? They have been an embarrassment to English football for a long time. They have taken what should be a simple thing and turned it into a mess. VAR hasn't ruined things, it's the refs that have done that.

18 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Getting rid of VAR doesn't solve the problem.

Why is it that VAR has to go? why can't the PGMOL be scrapped? They have been an embarrassment to English football for a long time. They have taken what should be a simple thing and turned it into a mess. VAR hasn't ruined things, it's the refs that have done that.

Spot on Scott.

 

Another great day for the frauds.. 

I thought the rules are “ if a goal is scored that involves a handball” it will be chalked off, how was Arsenal’s winner allowed? Was it because it was Michael Oliver or because they were under orders to try and keep Arsenal in the title race? The same with Anthony Taylor, VAR very rarely over rules him, the same today, Gallagher should have had a penalty 

On 17/05/2024 at 17:12, Scott Harris said:

Getting rid of VAR doesn't solve the problem.

Why is it that VAR has to go? why can't the PGMOL be scrapped? They have been an embarrassment to English football for a long time. They have taken what should be a simple thing and turned it into a mess. VAR hasn't ruined things, it's the refs that have done that.

Don't disagree, but who do you get in to then operate VAR? PGMOL are awful but everyone has unconscious bias that will affect decisions. 

Leave anything automated (offsides/goal line tech) and then leave everything else up to the on-field ref imo. 

6 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Don't disagree, but who do you get in to then operate VAR? PGMOL are awful but everyone has unconscious bias that will affect decisions. 

Leave anything automated (offsides/goal line tech) and then leave everything else up to the on-field ref imo. 

You can just give the on-field ref an opportunity to have a second look at the pitch-side monitor showing the various video replay angles ... you don't actually need additional people sat in Stockley Park and making decisions.

4 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

You can just give the on-field ref an opportunity to have a second look at the pitch-side monitor showing the various video replay angles ... you don't actually need additional people sat in Stockley Park and making decisions.

Who tells the ref to take another look though? 

2 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Who tells the ref to take another look though? 

I'd implement the tennis "challenge" idea ... I think Jim mentioned it up the thread somewhere. Each manager gets two challenges per half, and if invoked, then the ref goes to the monitor ... 

14 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd implement the tennis "challenge" idea ... I think Jim mentioned it up the thread somewhere. Each manager gets two challenges per half, and if invoked, then the ref goes to the monitor ... 

Cue lots of challenges in the 90+ minute to waste time.

Heard Keith Hackett talking about it this morning on Talksh*te. He recommended it as the way forward instead of having off-site VAR.

25 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd implement the tennis "challenge" idea ... I think Jim mentioned it up the thread somewhere. Each manager gets two challenges per half, and if invoked, then the ref goes to the monitor ... 

This i actually like and could see the only way of it actually working, either manager or on field captain gets to call a review. 

I'm sure the stubborn refs won't want to admit they got the call wrong and still f**k it up somehow

45 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

This i actually like and could see the only way of it actually working, either manager or on field captain gets to call a review. 

I'm sure the stubborn refs won't want to admit they got the call wrong and still f**k it up somehow

Undoubtedly they'll still screw it up.

Can't be more of a shambles than the current VAR though - having a whole team of f**kwits preside over a decision has been a recipe for disaster.

Scrap it and go for the tennis system. Once they figure out how to have AI assisted offside then use that too. The current crop of pillocks at Stockley Park can't even get that right.

1 hour ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Cue lots of challenges in the 90+ minute to waste time.

Heard Keith Hackett talking about it this morning on Talksh*te. He recommended it as the way forward instead of having off-site VAR.

Would not waste any time - as any time would get re added on,  but it would disrupt the flow of the game. 

My challenge suggestion is detailed earlier in the thread - The added time is the only downside that I can see

 

 

I think every VAR decision should be 30 seconds time limit. At the end of 30 seconds if it's not blatently obvious, in which case the ref is told to go to the monitor, for HIM to decide, then it stays with the onfield refs decision.

Or it's done like rugby, and the onfield ref asks if there is any reason to change his decision, again time limited. VAR is supposed to tackle blatent mistakes.

As for offside. a toenail over the line is no advantage, if the whole foot is beyond the last defender then yes there is a slight advantage.

58 minutes ago, Ajbod said:

I think every VAR decision should be 30 seconds time limit. 

I think that would just create even more panic at Stockley Park than we currently have. It's like a f**king chimps tea party there every time they have to make a decision as it is.

 

Ps. I agree with everything else you said though 👍👍👍

Edited May 21, 20242 yr by Gordon Bennett

Offsides should be looked at in real time , the same way the linesman has to look at it.

No stopping the video and drawing lines either. Make the call with one view only.

You know, the way it was done on the pitch for decades.

On 19/05/2024 at 21:21, POCH OUT said:

I thought the rules are “ if a goal is scored that involves a handball” it will be chalked off, how was Arsenal’s winner allowed? Was it because it was Michael Oliver or because they were under orders to try and keep Arsenal in the title race? The same with Anthony Taylor, VAR very rarely over rules him, the same today, Gallagher should have had a penalty 

It was decided that the handball in the build up wasn't deliberate.

If the goal scorer accidentally handles it it's ruled out .

If it had been us it would be ruled out.

But we've had more penalties than anyone else, ( love VAR  ) so don't expect any penalties next season 

😜

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 20242 yr by The Rising Sun
Info

Anyone know why MOTD are not showing the VAR lines for offside decisions this season?

Anthony Taylor removed from action this weekend after last weeks sh*t show. At what point do they either sack this moron or simply stop letting him ref Chelsea games. 
 

What are the odds on him reffing a prem game again next weekend? 

4 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Anthony Taylor removed from action this weekend after last weeks sh*t show. At what point do they either sack this moron or simply stop letting him ref Chelsea games. 
 

What are the odds on him reffing OUR prem game again next weekend? 

Fixed it for you.

On 18/09/2024 at 12:34, Ukraine Bolt said:

Anthony Taylor removed from action this weekend after last weeks sh*t show. At what point do they either sack this moron or simply stop letting him ref Chelsea games. 
 

What are the odds on him reffing a prem game again next weekend? 

I don't think he was actually removed. He's just doing 4th official duty this weekend.

On 17/05/2024 at 12:12, Scott Harris said:

Getting rid of VAR doesn't solve the problem.

Why is it that VAR has to go? why can't the PGMOL be scrapped? They have been an embarrassment to English football for a long time. They have taken what should be a simple thing and turned it into a mess. VAR hasn't ruined things, it's the refs that have done that.

This, this exactly. Referees in England are stars for some reason. I always hear about how “Webb is going to cover for them so it doesn’t look like they’re being called out.”

They are referees. The fact that everyone knows their names is problem number one. In America, being man NFL ref, for example, isn’t even really a full time job. By the people that do it, it is considered a privilege. You would NEVER have clue they supported a particular team. They get graded for performance after each game. Crews that have grades that fall below a certain level are Suspended, and then out if it continues.

The fact that teams like Chelsea can be openly targeted by certain officials, and that one one of the mildest Chelsea teams ever can set the all time season yellow card record, is insane.

I thought the referee for the West Ham game did a very good job of keeping things fair, protecting player safety, and letting the game flow. You know how I know he did a good job? Because I don’t remember his name name or even what he looked like.

VAR is just a tool. PGMOL running refs like a corrupt union is a MUCH bigger issue.

On 18/09/2024 at 12:34, Ukraine Bolt said:

Anthony Taylor removed from action this weekend after last weeks sh*t show. At what point do they either sack this moron or simply stop letting him ref Chelsea games. 
 

What are the odds on him reffing a prem game again next weekend? 

 

On 18/09/2024 at 12:39, dkw said:

Fixed it for you.

f**ks sake, i was right as well 😅