We’ve all seen in recent seasons, not only at Chelsea, how player power can influence top level decisions at clubs. In the last few weeks since Frank’s departure we’ve witnessed vastly improved form, for example from players like Kovacic and Giorginho.

Im interested in how TT should perceive this moving towards the summer transfer window, the players ive named were not the only ones, but in my opinion certainly didn’t give their All for Frank.

I don’t consider these players good enough on a consistent basis for Chelsea as I’m sure we’ll all witness when Tuchel’s honeymoon period comes to an end.

Should TT be mindful of this when considering his squad for next season or take the risk of trusting the players that have featured prominently for him so far?

Of course it’s very early days and none of us know what’s in Tuchel’s mind long term, but considering how we know how many of these players are capable of performing when things are not going so well, I certainly wouldn’t be placing too much trust in them.

Anyone any Thoughts?

Not sure myself.

One of the pundits said whenever senior players are on the bench for a period they are always going to be unhappy as they all want to play.

 

Player power might be agent power re the youngsters either Tammy or CHO being rumoured to being awarded high salaries in Frank's first season.

 

Someone mentioned a rumour of Rudiger kicking off with someone in the under 23s match which potentially might be frustration at not playing at the senior level.

 

During the fall out of Eva-gate something was certainly amiss though some players like Willian performed even better.

 

I do recall one match around December away and Mount and either Tammy or CHO coming out onto the pitch and laughing and joking and thought Paisley-like, WTF?

This is do or die Frank's job is on the line and not the time for cracking jokes. And we lost!

 

 

In regards to Jorginho - he has been the same player for 3 seasons now. When Lampard used him he performed decently most of the time.

It's up to Tuchel to see what player he doesn't need, I read somewhere that Lampard was planning to sell Jorginho and that would have been the correct decision if he doesn't want to use him, a player like that isn't good as a backup option due to his salary anyway.

Tuchel has no option to but to trust this current squad till the summer, then he has to make some decision and further improve our squad with the board.

9 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Not sure myself.

One of the pundits said whenever senior players are on the bench for a period they are always going to be unhappy as they all want to play.

 

Player power might be agent power re the youngsters either Tammy or CHO being rumoured to being awarded high salaries in Frank's first season.

 

Someone mentioned a rumour of Rudiger kicking off with someone in the under 23s match which potentially might be frustration at not playing at the senior level.

 

During the fall out of Eva-gate something was certainly amiss though some players like Willian performed even better.

 

I do recall one match around December away and Mount and either Tammy or CHO coming out onto the pitch and laughing and joking and thought Paisley-like, WTF?

This is do or die Frank's job is on the line and not the time for cracking jokes. And we lost!

 

 

Im not saying Frank done everything right, Far from it, He will be the first to admit he made mistakes.

But there's no doubt he got sh*t on, im just saying that TT might want to bear that in mind as he's not going to be able to keep everyone happy.

Especially as he's not seen what Billy can bring to the table yet, and Kante has been sparingly used so who's to say the players i have mentioned wont be spending more time on the bench once things have settled down a bit.

12 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Im not saying Frank done everything right, Far from it, He will be the first to admit he made mistakes.

But there's no doubt he got sh*t on, im just saying that TT might want to bear that in mind as he's not going to be able to keep everyone happy.

Especially as he's not seen what Billy can bring to the table yet, and Kante has been sparingly used so who's to say the players i have mentioned wont be spending more time on the bench once things have settled down a bit.

Tuchel has said good things about Billy - he's said that this transfer window was the best he had since it lasted only a couple of days and no big injury was there it's all good. I think Gilmour has a good chance to breakthrough if not this season then surely at some point during the next one.

‘Billy is very, very close in terms of quality and work ethic and personality.

‘So we decided very quickly. It was not even a decision, it was simply clear that we go with this group going forward.’

Lamps this season was very focused on control and possession, which slowed down build up play and this goes against everything Kovacic is good at. His forte is making risky bursting runs in midfield to quicken the play. I don't think it is him downing tools.

For me CHO is the only player who showed little but now has a big turn in form, but again I think that's down to tactics and confidence than downing tools.

Just thought not only CHO yet also Azpi, I was thinking his legs had probably gone and now he looks an accomplished CB again.

3 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

Just thought not only CHO yet also Azpi, I was thinking his legs had probably gone and now he looks an accomplished CB again.

Probably more to do with playing in a back 3 rather than a back 4. I dont rate Dave in a back 4 that highly anymore and offensively he is awful.

28 minutes ago, sonic90 said:

Lamps this season was very focused on control and possession, which slowed down build up play and this goes against everything Kovacic is good at. His forte is making risky bursting runs in midfield to quicken the play. I don't think it is him downing tools.

For me CHO is the only player who showed little but now has a big turn in form, but again I think that's down to tactics and confidence than downing tools.

Not Giorginho? Im surprised some of you feel he was playing well under Lampard. I thought he was dreadful and looks a different player now TT is Coach

25 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Probably more to do with playing in a back 3 rather than a back 4. I dont rate Dave in a back 4 that highly anymore and offensively he is awful.

Yes only in a back 3 and from there he also has a good pass to the front like how he used to find Morata before the latter lost it.

We weren't really structured under FL. We have vets that prefer playing with structure on the team, it's fine to pass them by if team is winning.

44 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Not Giorginho? Im surprised some of you feel he was playing well under Lampard. I thought he was dreadful and looks a different player now TT is Coach

Jorginho has mostly been the same, when we have possession he looks comfortable, under Lamps when teams realised we were just mucking about (usually after 10-15 minutes) they pressed and he fell apart. And it's happening now too, in the first couple  games he looked fine and in the last game there was some actual action in midfield and he was awful.

48 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Not Giorginho? Im surprised some of you feel he was playing well under Lampard. I thought he was dreadful and looks a different player now TT is Coach

Why do you spell Jorginho wrong? 

Anyway, player power is and should be a thing. These are senior professionals and if things aren't working, their grievances should be listened to. 

In no other job in the world is there blind loyalty to a manager. 

3 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Why do you spell Jorginho wrong? 

Anyway, player power is and should be a thing. These are senior professionals and if things aren't working, their grievances should be listened to. 

In no other job in the world is there blind loyalty to a manager. 

Sorry, ive always spelled it like that, Apologies. Player Power is not a bad thing, you need leaders among your players. But sometimes its used in the wrong way, i think Lamps was an example of that.

1 minute ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Sorry, ive always spelled it like that, Apologies. Player Power is not a bad thing, you need leaders among your players. But sometimes its used in the wrong way, i think Lamps was an example of that.

Well its not his name, so it just comes across a bit insulting. Which confused me as you weren't slagging him off!

I don't think it was at all under Lampard. My impression is the players were consulted and listened to when the results slid. I reckon Azpilicueta and Cech would be the only voices the board fully pay attention to in and around the squad, and I think if you heard both of them wanted Lampard gone you'd think it was the right decision. My suspicion is they both fell on that side and that was the "player power".

The rest is just tabloid fodder. Do you really think the board is going to sack Lampard because Rudiger Jorginho and Alonso wanted him out? Not a chance. 

 

37 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

The rest is just tabloid fodder. Do you really think the board is going to sack Lampard because Rudiger Jorginho and Alonso wanted him out? Not a chance. 

I agree. I must be honest and say I was a bit surprised when this was an apparent reason he was moved on. 

A number of these players we were trying to move on over the summer, so it hardly makes sense to sack a club legend to keep them happy. That said it was clearly a key failure of Marina et al in the summer, that we continued to carry players that weren't in the managers plans and so had this huge and bloated squad which always breeds resentment.

If I were to be ultracynical, knowing the way we have done this sort of thing in the past (particularly to Conte) it wouldn't surprise me if our media team leaked to the press that members of the squad weren't happy to bolster the case for moving him on which were entirely unrelated.

Edited February 9, 20215 yr by Spiller86

I think a lot of clubs look at it like this... it is easier to replace 1 coach (or 3 or 4) than to try and replace a bunch of players to fit a certain managers style. Not saying that it is the right approach but I do believe that is how they look at it

I think for Frank the key things were defeats and lack of wins and dropping down the table.

What made it worse was the expensive signings not delivering and being on the bench.

So for me less about player power more just results.

 

16 minutes ago, Strider6003 said:

I think for Frank the key things were defeats and lack of wins and dropping down the table.

If only there was a way to be defeated by still win and rise up the table... 

23 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

If only there was a way to be defeated by still win and rise up the table... 

You're on full sarcasm mode Munk ?

What I find ironic is when managers get unhappy and show discontent with their higher up (the board) they're treated like heroes yet when players do the same to managers the general narrative is it's awful and they should know their place (including Lampard himself when he was supposedly derailing AVB's "project").

Player power exists to varying degree's at any successful club, as Roy Keane said you don't win trophy's with a bunch of choir boys.

Edited February 9, 20215 yr by Argo

4 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

I think for Frank the key things were defeats and lack of wins and dropping down the table.

What made it worse was the expensive signings not delivering and being on the bench.

So for me less about player power more just results.

 

In today's world, WINNING is everything.

Player power only exists when you stop winning.

12 hours ago, bluehaze said:

You're on full sarcasm mode Munk ?

I don’t know how to turn it off, I need help 

17 hours ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

We’ve all seen in recent seasons, not only at Chelsea, how player power can influence top level decisions at clubs. In the last few weeks since Frank’s departure we’ve witnessed vastly improved form, for example from players like Kovacic and Giorginho.

Im interested in how TT should perceive this moving towards the summer transfer window, the players ive named were not the only ones, but in my opinion certainly didn’t give their All for Frank.

I don’t consider these players good enough on a consistent basis for Chelsea as I’m sure we’ll all witness when Tuchel’s honeymoon period comes to an end.

Should TT be mindful of this when considering his squad for next season or take the risk of trusting the players that have featured prominently for him so far?

Of course it’s very early days and none of us know what’s in Tuchel’s mind long term, but considering how we know how many of these players are capable of performing when things are not going so well, I certainly wouldn’t be placing too much trust in them.

Anyone any Thoughts?

It is never this easy. These athletes are highly tuned. If the system used and ideas brought on by manager are not bringing results players take control on the pitch and make isolated decisions. Someone like Werner tried too much. He tried to win for Chelsea and Frank. I don't think anyone didn't want to win for Frank. It is always down to the manager. Frank was sacked for not getting results and not getting results are down to probably 100 of small things. Not solely on how the likes of Kovacic or Jorginho performed. 

For me Tuchel is bringing an ideology with him which is not down to so much about quality of player. From outside it seemed like Frank was leaning heavily on individual qualities of players. This is too simplistic as well as I am sure Frank had a solid plan, he just never talked about it. 

The PL is in dire need of a salary cap to slash the ridiculously high wages that the modern elite player is paid, plus a collective decision that players pay their agents, and not the clubs ... that's two actions that would help curb player power pretty quickly ...