6 hours ago, Remodez said:

Hell of a statement to make based off 1 season. 

Oh you don't even need a full season to make that judgement if you know what you're doing. In 8 months Enzo has shown himself to be a better midfielder than any of his club peers. And I can make that statement with confidence, backed by data, and the eye test.

2 hours ago, manpe said:

Honest question, what is our style? If it's passing to wing-backs and hoping they conjure something up, then I think Rice and Caicedo are both quite equally good enough at sideways passing for that style (not) to work.

I can answer that earnestly but that's probably not what you want. Ultimately, the intention is to have us play a modern, possession-based, high press variation. If I'm picking one of them to suit that system, it's Caicedo all day long.

The data shows we have the highest possession, most carries, and right up there with take-on attempts and recoveries. This doesn't translate to a finished, functional system but it is very encouraging given then state of our squad and the amount of time Poch has had with them. 

Paul merson has been going on about how much better a player Declan Rice is compared to Caicedo.

7 hours ago, abister1 said:

Saw these and laughed so hard, no pun intended.

Is fair. Our fans, if they have wanted to, have been able to dish it our for decades to many sets of fans. Now it is our turn to take it.

37 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Paul merson has been going on about how much better a player Declan Rice is compared to Caicedo.

Caicedo has had 1 blistering season in a Brighton team that was flying.

Rice has had the football education, plus a few season of grafting it out in a lumpy west ham team.

Both are probably decent players - But if given the choice, I would have taken Rice over Caicedo if the truth be told.

I would also have taken Rodri, Verrati and Caesemiro.

Edited September 6, 20232 yr by nonotnowjim

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Caicedo has had 1 blistering season in a Brighton team that was flying.

Rice has had the football education, plus a few season of grafting it out in a lumpy west ham team.

Both are probably decent players - But if given the choice, I would have taken Rice over Caicedo if the truth be told.

I would also have taken Rodri, Verrati and Caesemiro.

As I don't know Caicedo at all I would have taken Rice. I really appreciate his leadership skills. I feel he will be Gerrard/Lampard status player for the next 10 years (without the goals as he is a 6 and not 8). When you have the personality and not just the footballing ability you can be more important to football and the game itself.

Personality for me is a bit undervaluated part of the game.

Anyway we went for Caicedo who looks the part. He cannot do things alone and he needs all the support from the team and it has to click with Enzo. I think people are not appreciating connection and experience between players enough when valuating individual players. 

 

16 hours ago, venom2011 said:

 By winners you mean 1 deflected goal and by costing us, you mean made errors (along with others in the same phase) leading to goals.

Rice is more experienced, and more of a leader on the pitch for sure. But Caicedo is still the better player. He's also much better suited to our style of football and will be valuable in stopping counters. He's had 180 mins of football after a botched preseason. Give the guy a fn minute...

Well by winner, i meant putting the ball in the back of the net and by costing us i mean giving away a penalty and passing the ball so short that Forest had a simple 1 on 1 with the keeper. Word it how you want, the facts are still the same. Who else made an error in the lead up to the Forest goal?

Looking at this forum we're happy to write the season off as a disaster after 4 games, but can't point out flaws in the most expensive player in English history. Cool cool.

16 hours ago, Argo said:

Even if I turn out to be wrong about his level I'll always stand by the fact him being a leader is a myth.

It something that just seems to be assumed because he's a bit of a character and raises his voice every now and again, if leadership was that straight forward Warnock would have been an elite manager.

Its funny because Rice is pretty much the exact same character as Lampard on the pitch who no one would have doubted his leadership qualities. 

10 hours ago, venom2011 said:

Oh you don't even need a full season to make that judgement if you know what you're doing. In 8 months Enzo has shown himself to be a better midfielder than any of his club peers. And I can make that statement with confidence, backed by data, and the eye test.

We must have some horrible scouts at the club then. 

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Paul merson has been going on about how much better a player Declan Rice is compared to Caicedo.

Everyone know this.

Rice is 24,Caicedo is 22 though 

15 hours ago, just said:

Personally I wouldn't have paid £100+ million for either Rice or Caicedo. There's only one current DM worth that money and that's Rodri. But then as I always argued with Gol, Rodri is soooo much more than a straight forward DM. He can make a difference all over the pitch. I think if he continues to evolve Rice can maybe be a similar player. He's a great athlete, physically imposing and, for me, he acts like a leader on the pitch. I also actually like listening to him being interviewed. He generally comes across as very honest and intelligent. 

Rodri is 27. Rice is 24.

 

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Caicedo has had 1 blistering season in a Brighton team that was flying.

Rice has had the football education, plus a few season of grafting it out in a lumpy west ham team.

Both are probably decent players - But if given the choice, I would have taken Rice over Caicedo if the truth be told.

I would also have taken Rodri, Verrati and Caesemiro.

That's all good and true. But without even  analyzing the players, Caicedo was immense in a young team playing brilliant, progressive football. He moved to a young team with intent to play good, progressive football. Rice did very well in a West Ham team that were in stark contrast stylistically. Fans had a problem with Jorginho because of how his lack of mobility hurt us on occasion. What do you think would happen with Verrati, Casemiro, and Rice?

Now looking at the comparison - At the same ages, Caicedo is vastly superior to Rice. He's better across all technical aspects, though Rice is tidy. He's a lot quicker and more agile (was even used at RB on occasion). Both great in duels. Both read the game very well. Rice better in the air. 

The only player in Europe I would take over Caicedo is Rodri. Bloom priced him at 100m+, not just because he wanted to be an asshole and thought we would overpay. He knew the value of what he had.

4 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

That's all good and true. But without even  analyzing the players, Caicedo was immense in a young team playing brilliant, progressive football. He moved to a young team with intent to play good, progressive football. Rice did very well in a West Ham team that were in stark contrast stylistically. Fans had a problem with Jorginho because of how his lack of mobility hurt us on occasion. What do you think would happen with Verrati, Casemiro, and Rice?

Now looking at the comparison - At the same ages, Caicedo is vastly superior to Rice. He's better across all technical aspects, though Rice is tidy. He's a lot quicker and more agile (was even used at RB on occasion). Both great in duels. Both read the game very well. Rice better in the air. 

The only player in Europe I would take over Caicedo is Rodri. Bloom priced him at 100m+, not just because he wanted to be an asshole and thought we would overpay. He knew the value of what he had.

We had a problem with Jorgi becuase he was the least athletic player at chelsea since Willy Faulkes, hardly played any forward passes, and did a gay (happy) little skip before his pens.

18 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

We had a problem with Jorgi becuase he was the least athletic player at chelsea since Willy Faulkes, hardly played any forward passes, and did a gay (happy) little skip before his pens.

ps - the fact that having a dig at Jorgi boy used to get Gol all worked up was an added bonus 😉

Edited September 6, 20232 yr by nonotnowjim

50 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Rodri is 27. Rice is 24.

 

Rodri is the reason why we paid 110 for Caicedo and Arsenal 105 for Rice. 

He is an amazing player. 

Other teams look at Pep and what he is doing and the market immediately reacts to that. 

58 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

That's all good and true. But without even  analyzing the players, Caicedo was immense in a young team playing brilliant, progressive football. He moved to a young team with intent to play good, progressive football. Rice did very well in a West Ham team that were in stark contrast stylistically. Fans had a problem with Jorginho because of how his lack of mobility hurt us on occasion. What do you think would happen with Verrati, Casemiro, and Rice?

Now looking at the comparison - At the same ages, Caicedo is vastly superior to Rice. He's better across all technical aspects, though Rice is tidy. He's a lot quicker and more agile (was even used at RB on occasion). Both great in duels. Both read the game very well. Rice better in the air. 

The only player in Europe I would take over Caicedo is Rodri. Bloom priced him at 100m+, not just because he wanted to be an asshole and thought we would overpay. He knew the value of what he had.

This would all be logical thinking if Cucurella, Sanchez and Potter didn't all come from Brighton and either are or were complete duds. 

Meanwhile Rice has got 2 MOTM awards and a game winning goal against Utd in 4 games in a system more attacking than ours.

Edited September 6, 20232 yr by RIP Mourinho

On 04/09/2023 at 17:14, just said:

I heard Rice turned us down because of @Gol15 and @Argo. 😉

Had I known that the club would later sign Caicedo for a similar asking price, I would be indifferent on who we sign. Enzo is the only real 100m midfielder.

24 minutes ago, evissy said:

Rodri is the reason why we paid 110 for Caicedo and Arsenal 105 for Rice. 

He is an amazing player. 

Other teams look at Pep and what he is doing and the market immediately reacts to that. 

I don't think that is the case. For Arsenal they are in win now mode. Rice is by far the best dm option. Jorgi and Partey are rotational level player at best. Hence paying 100m for him make sense. 

For us, I honestly have no clue what is our transfer strategy

 

7 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

This would all be logical thinking if Cucurella, Sanchez and Potter didn't all come from Brighton and either are or were complete duds. 

Meanwhile Rice has got 2 MOTM awards and a game winning goal against Utd in 4 games in a system more attacking than ours.

So it would be illogical because Caicedo is the same as Cucurella, Sanchez (who just arrived), and a manager?... seems logical.

1 hour ago, venom2011 said:

That's all good and true. But without even  analyzing the players, Caicedo was immense in a young team playing brilliant, progressive football. He moved to a young team with intent to play good, progressive football. Rice did very well in a West Ham team that were in stark contrast stylistically. Fans had a problem with Jorginho because of how his lack of mobility hurt us on occasion. What do you think would happen with Verrati, Casemiro, and Rice?

Now looking at the comparison - At the same ages, Caicedo is vastly superior to Rice. He's better across all technical aspects, though Rice is tidy. He's a lot quicker and more agile (was even used at RB on occasion). Both great in duels. Both read the game very well. Rice better in the air. 

The only player in Europe I would take over Caicedo is Rodri. Bloom priced him at 100m+, not just because he wanted to be an asshole and thought we would overpay. He knew the value of what he had.

I don't think I've seen such a overhype in quite some time. Urgate at Sporting would have offered the same things Caicedo does and much cheaper too. 

Ultimately though, I truly hope Caicedo becomes as good as you seem to think he is. We would be set for a decade. 

16 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

So it would be illogical because Caicedo is the same as Cucurella, Sanchez (who just arrived), and a manager?... seems logical.

I'll put it in Layman's terms for you as you seem to struggle with critical thinking:

Caicedo was immense in a young team playing brilliant, progressive football. So was Cucurella.

He moved to a young team with intent to play good, progressive football. So did Cucurella.

Rice did very well in a West Ham team that were in stark contrast stylistically. Should have watched Rice more closely, always had the skill set for a top top team.

Fans had a problem with Jorginho because of how his lack of mobility hurt us on occasion. What do you think would happen with Verrati, Casemiro, and Rice? What's this myth that Rice is similar to Jorginho even slightly? Incredibly more mobile, just go and watch his highlights from the Utd game for example. He's all over the pitch.

Bloom priced him at 100m+, not just because he wanted to be an asshole and thought we would overpay. He knew the value of what he had. No, Bloom priced him at £115m because he knew we were desperate and would pay it. Same way we ended up paying £60m for Cucurella. Or did Bloom price him at that because he's worth it? 

Edited September 6, 20232 yr by RIP Mourinho

Talking about this "progressive" "good" football. Rodri was signed from atletico Madrid 😁😁

3 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Talking about this "progressive" "good" football. Rodri was signed from atletico Madrid 😁😁

God forbid we signed someone from West Ham though!

3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

God forbid we signed someone from West Ham though!

Actually signing player from team who play circuit tippy tappy ball is the worse.

Most of them looks better because of the system, the moment you ask them to play slightly different role, they simply can't do anything. 

Edited September 6, 20232 yr by Bob stark

32 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think that is the case. For Arsenal they are in win now mode. Rice is by far the best dm option. Jorgi and Partey are rotational level player at best. Hence paying 100m for him make sense. 

For us, I honestly have no clue what is our transfer strategy

 

Caicedo fits to our strategy very well in terms of experience, age, profile of player. IF our scouting and trainers have done due diligence and they are actually good at what they do, he fits our strategy very well. Time will tell.