7 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Owes thanks to Gabriel?

Gabriel was the reason it was such a close call lmao 

Thought Gabriel was clever enough to step up in order to accommodate Rice completely abandoning his position. Rice didn't even notice Garnacho's run.  

Rice being a leader is a massive myth.

West Ham fans think he was a huge downgrade on Noble on that score and some of the excuses he's made for defeat on England duty would have made even Potter cringe.

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Thought Gabriel was clever enough to step up in order to accommodate Rice completely abandoning his position. Rice didn't even notice Garnacho's run.  

Gabriel should have stepped up earlier. The player behind Rice should also have been covering Garnacho's run as he comes from wide left. Rice had to step as the player he was covering for in the first place had missed his challenge. 

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Gabriel should have stepped up earlier. The player behind Rice should also have been covering Garnacho's run as he comes from wide left. Rice had to step as the player he was covering for in the first place had missed his challenge. 

That's harsh. If any CB is at fault its Saliba as he caused the issue. 

They were already playing a relatively high line and in real time Gabriel never anticipated Rice flying in like that.  It was a challenge he was never going to win and had he noticed Garnacho he would've tried to cut the passing lane. 

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Rice being a leader is a massive myth.

West Ham fans think he was a huge downgrade on Noble on that score and some of the excuses he's made for defeat on England duty would have made even Potter cringe.

So bitter West Ham fans and one single interview from years ago is your reasoning? 

Terry wasn't made captain until he was the age Rice is now FWIW. 

Doesn't change the fact he's far more experienced and a bigger personality, which is what we needed in the summer. 

7 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

That's harsh. If any CB is at fault its Saliba as he caused the issue. 

They were already playing a relatively high line and in real time Gabriel never anticipated Rice flying in like that.  It was a challenge he was never going to win and had he noticed Garnacho he would've tried to cut the passing lane. 

I agree it was Saliba's fault primarily. Rice stepped because the rest of the defensive line should have been with him playing Garnacho offside. The fullbacks were, Gabriel was not. Gabriel is lucky that VAR call went his way because that's far more on him than anyone else shutting off and being too deep. 

3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

So bitter West Ham fans and one single interview from years ago is your reasoning? 

Terry wasn't made captain until he was the age Rice is now FWIW. 

Doesn't change the fact he's far more experienced and a bigger personality, which is what we needed in the summer. 

If was in the middle of the last season, around the time he fired a shot at Roy Keane for daring to criticise his recent performances.

5 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

The experience and leadership of Rice would have been so much better for us than Caicedo this season lets be honest...

The experience and supposed leadership of a bunch of players did buggerall last season. Just take Mount as a prime example of someone who supposedly had a host of intangibles that are thought to make a difference in moments like the club experienced last season. All those intangibles amounted to zilch. 

And I was one of those who put great stock in them. Watching a fair amount of Arsenal and Brighton games last season, Caicedo amazed me, Rice not as much. Both were crucial to their teams. Wouldn't have minded Rice, but I was desperate for us to sign Caicedo.

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

If was in the middle of the last season, around the time he fired a shot at Roy Keane for daring to criticise his recent performances.

Ever so sorry, one interview from nearly a year ago.

Roy Keane is an overgrown baby that often goes over the top in his analysis for sheer shock value, if he can give it he can take it. Christ, we had our leaders dropping their performances and getting managers sacked when they didn't like what they were doing and saying and your issue is him hitting back at Keane? 

Once again ignoring the point he would have been a better fit for us this Summer, but go on. 

5 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

The experience and supposed leadership of a bunch of players did buggerall last season. Just take Mount as a prime example of someone who supposedly had a host of intangibles that are thought to make a difference in moments like the club experienced last season. All those intangibles amounted to zilch. 

And I was one of those who put great stock in them. Watching a fair amount of Arsenal and Brighton games last season, Caicedo amazed me, Rice not as much. Both were crucial to their teams. Wouldn't have minded Rice, but I was desperate for us to sign Caicedo.

Meanwhile Rice is scoring winners and Caicedo has cost us the West Ham and Forest games. Sigh.

Last season is an outlier with Potter at the helm. Poch himself has said he wanted some experience. I have no doubt Caicedo will come good in the long run, but that doesn't help us now. Silva is the only experienced leader we have, hence why he starts every week. No matter how many interviews Argo wants to pull up, Rice is vastly more experienced and certainly more of a personality and leader than Caicedo is on the pitch. 

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Meanwhile Rice is scoring winners and Caicedo has cost us the West Ham and Forest games. Sigh.

 

 By winners you mean 1 deflected goal and by costing us, you mean made errors (along with others in the same phase) leading to goals.

Rice is more experienced, and more of a leader on the pitch for sure. But Caicedo is still the better player. He's also much better suited to our style of football and will be valuable in stopping counters. He's had 180 mins of football after a botched preseason. Give the guy a fn minute...

Methinks a couple of games is hardly a basis for such conclusions but why should today be different around here? 

9 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

 By winners you mean 1 deflected goal and by costing us, you mean made errors (along with others in the same phase) leading to goals.

Rice is more experienced, and more of a leader on the pitch for sure. But Caicedo is still the better player. He's also much better suited to our style of football and will be valuable in stopping counters. He's had 180 mins of football after a botched preseason. Give the guy a fn minute...

Hell of a statement to make based off 1 season. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Thought Gabriel was clever enough to step up in order to accommodate Rice completely abandoning his position. Rice didn't even notice Garnacho's run.  

I still think it was a bad call from VAR. There wasn't enough in that to overturn the decision on the field, and the drawn line wasn't convincing either. Looked like an angle that was deliberately trying to justify the VAR call. That being said United have had enough dodgy decisions go their way this season already, so hard to have much sympathy on this one.

39 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Ever so sorry, one interview from nearly a year ago.

Roy Keane is an overgrown baby that often goes over the top in his analysis for sheer shock value, if he can give it he can take it. Christ, we had our leaders dropping their performances and getting managers sacked when they didn't like what they were doing and saying and your issue is him hitting back at Keane? 

Once again ignoring the point he would have been a better fit for us this Summer, but go on. 

Even if I turn out to be wrong about his level I'll always stand by the fact him being a leader is a myth.

It something that just seems to be assumed because he's a bit of a character and raises his voice every now and again, if leadership was that straight forward Warnock would have been an elite manager.

I agree with those on here that suggested that the response to Rice's performance on Sunday was overdone by the press. Yes he scored a key goal at the end, although it took an important deflection and probably should have been saved by Onana. I watched some of the game and he did OK but he did give away the ball a few times (something Caicedo was criticized for his games so far), and he was very lucky that the Garnacho goal was disallowed as it would have likely led to a very different outcome and it was ultimately his mistake that led to the opportunity. 

I do think Rice is a very decent player and would have been happy to have him here. But way too early to paint him as a massive success versus Caicedo.

Personally I wouldn't have paid £100+ million for either Rice or Caicedo. There's only one current DM worth that money and that's Rodri. But then as I always argued with Gol, Rodri is soooo much more than a straight forward DM. He can make a difference all over the pitch. I think if he continues to evolve Rice can maybe be a similar player. He's a great athlete, physically imposing and, for me, he acts like a leader on the pitch. I also actually like listening to him being interviewed. He generally comes across as very honest and intelligent. 

Edited September 5, 20232 yr by just

52 minutes ago, just said:

Personally I wouldn't have paid £100+ million for either Rice or Caicedo. There's only one current DM worth that money and that's Rodri. But then as I always argued with Gol, Rodri is soooo much more than a straight forward DM. He can make a difference all over the pitch. I think if he continues to evolve Rice can maybe be a similar player. He's a great athlete, physically imposing and, for me, he acts like a leader on the pitch. I also actually like listening to him being interviewed. He generally comes across as very honest and intelligent. 

No but seeing as we did it would make more sense to spend it on the player that is more proven.

3 hours ago, venom2011 said:

The experience and supposed leadership of a bunch of players did buggerall last season. Just take Mount as a prime example of someone who supposedly had a host of intangibles that are thought to make a difference in moments like the club experienced last season. All those intangibles amounted to zilch.

Well said.

3 hours ago, venom2011 said:

 By winners you mean 1 deflected goal and by costing us, you mean made errors (along with others in the same phase) leading to goals.

Rice is more experienced, and more of a leader on the pitch for sure. But Caicedo is still the better player. He's also much better suited to our style of football and will be valuable in stopping counters. He's had 180 mins of football after a botched preseason. Give the guy a fn minute...

Honest question, what is our style? If it's passing to wing-backs and hoping they conjure something up, then I think Rice and Caicedo are both quite equally good enough at sideways passing for that style (not) to work.

40 minutes ago, abister1 said:

Well said.

Well there were far more senior and experienced players than Mount last season. Mount appeared in 24 EPL games. Jorginho appeared in 18 and it's hard to recall a single one he stood out in. Experienced players are fine, but they still have to be GOOD players. 

49 minutes ago, just said:

Well there were far more senior and experienced players than Mount last season. Mount appeared in 24 EPL games. Jorginho appeared in 18 and it's hard to recall a single one he stood out in. Experienced players are fine, but they still have to be GOOD players. 

I think you've slightly missed the salient point there.

Mount was supposedly, according to some on here, Chelsea. If a Mr Chelsea could not dig deep and summon that inner Mr Chelsea, to be Mr Chelsea for Chelsea at the time when Chelsea looked like it really needed help (to all and sundry watching) from true Chelsea to hand Chelsea a lifeline, then what chance did Chelsea have to get that from others. That's why he was used as a prime example and not Jorginho who was a Sarri import from Italy.

Saw these and laughed so hard, no pun intended.

32 minutes ago, abister1 said:

I think you've slightly missed the salient point there.

Mount was supposedly, according to some on here, Chelsea. If a Mr Chelsea could not dig deep and summon that inner Mr Chelsea, to be Mr Chelsea for Chelsea at the time when Chelsea looked like it really needed help (to all and sundry watching) from true Chelsea to hand Chelsea a lifeline, then what chance did Chelsea have to get that from others. That's why he was used as a prime example and not Jorginho who was a Sarri import from Italy.

So in brief, your point is that if Mount can't summon up his  mythical and until now his unknown  " inner Chelsea " to help the club, then we can't expect anyone else to step up ?

Ok 

 

Oh well, not said anything like that. Just clarifying the point that was made in post to which I commented well said.

Except I missed the point myself, I think that's what was being said. 

Any number of people could have,the person said prime example and used him. That's a loaded example because of what he is supposed to signify to the club and what the club supposedly means to him. 

Anyway not an argument or reason to go back and forth, I thought I was being clear but maybe not.