So it's Pochettino *Officially Chelsea Manager*

[Sexyfootball]

12 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I don't.  Sure he has displayed elements of Spursy choking but his Tottenham connection means little to me. I retain very fond memories of a Spurs legend Chelsea manager taking us to Wembley for the first time in 25 years.

I don't get hysterical about Poch at all. I look forward to him taking us to where we hope to end up. Currently I, along, with a number of fans, pundits and journalists remain of the opinion that today there is little evidence of a progression in our style of play.

I'd say taking us to Wembley with an injury-hit team with an average age of 23 is every bit as impressive as that first final in 25 years, which I also remember well, and I don't recall any witch hunt aimed at Hoddle when we got pumped 4-nil by Manchester United either ... more realistic expectations back then I guess !

[WhiteWall]

27 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd say taking us to Wembley with an injury-hit team with an average age of 23 is every bit as impressive as that first final in 25 years, which I also remember well, and I don't recall any witch hunt aimed at Hoddle when we got pumped 4-nil by Manchester United either ... more realistic expectations back then I guess !

Granted, although I would suggest that you are overlooking a significant amount of context. Bit of difference in the levels of expectation I would imagine, from within the club let alone from fans.

I am not putting down the cup progression, we've always been a decent cup side since those Hoddle days. The progression I am looking for and talking about, is in our overall organisation,  style and development of a nucleus for the future.

As individuals there is definite improvement,  but to date there has only been glimpses mainly against lower league sides.

If we could see Villa type performances and developing relationships over a sustained period of games then I firmly believe this group could cement a position of 6th - 8th, which would represent a definite improvement and forward direction.

[olderschoolcfc]

15 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Granted, although I would suggest that you are overlooking a significant amount of context. Bit of difference in the levels of expectation I would imagine, from within the club let alone from fans.

I am not putting down the cup progression, we've always been a decent cup side since those Hoddle days. The progression I am looking for and talking about, is in our overall organisation,  style and development of a nucleus for the future.

As individuals there is definite improvement,  but to date there has only been glimpses mainly against lower league sides.

If we could see Villa type performances and developing relationships over a sustained period of games then I firmly believe this group could cement a position of 6th - 8th, which would represent a definite improvement and forward direction.

Perhaps fans need to reset their expectations then? 

Imagine if players like gusto decide they'd rather play for a club with fans who dont boo their teammates. I am trying to think of other clubs where fans have turned on their players... im struggling right now to think of many if any examples. 

[WhiteWall]

3 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Perhaps fans need to reset their expectations then? 

Imagine if players like gusto decide they'd rather play for a club with fans who dont boo their teammates. I am trying to think of other clubs where fan s have turned on their players... im struggling right now to think of many if any examples. 

Watch the first ten minutes of season 1 of Sunderland till I die. Lol

My other point here, is please don't take my comments out of context. I have never condoned booing players, regardless of their performances. 

Those involved in the 94 Cup run I mentioned earlier may remember Barnet in the FA Cup 3rd round replay after a 0-0 draw at Barnet. I had to buy a seat in the West stand under the terms of my ST. During this game we were so horrendous that five yard passes eluded us and the whole ground booed the team universally. So much so that a simple 10 yard pass was made to Steve Clarke in the RB position and he nervously fumbled it and let it go out for a throw in. My booing ensued and you could see the players visibly fall apart. Barnet counter and a ball is squirted across the face of our goal and nearly, nearly the wrong Hoddle scored.

We survived that scare, gradually re-found our composure and ran out worthy 4-0 winners. But there was a moment there, and it would have been totally on the crowd if it had happened. 

A group of armchair experts piping up with our opinions on our own members forum is one thing. Booing players at the games and worse still, directing filth at them via social media is something completely different.

Edited March 18 by WhiteWall

[Sexyfootball]

34 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Watch the first ten minutes of season 1 of Sunderland till I die. Lol

My other point here, is please don't take my comments out of context. I have never condoned booing players, regardless of their performances. 

Those involved in the 94 Cup run I mentioned earlier may remember Barnet in the FA Cup 3rd round replay after a 0-0 draw at Barnet. I had to buy a seat in the West stand under the terms of my ST. During this game we were so horrendous that five yard passes eluded us and the whole ground booed the team universally. So much so that a simple 10 yard pass was made to Steve Clarke in the RB position and he nervously fumbled it and let it go out for a throw in. My booing ensued and you could see the players visibly fall apart. Barnet counter and a ball is squirted across the face of our goal and nearly, nearly the wrong Hoddle scored.

We survived that scare, gradually re-found our composure and ran out worthy 4-0 winners. But there was a moment there, and it would have been totally on the crowd if it had happened. 

A group of armchair experts piping up with our opinions on our own members forum is one thing. Booing players at the games and worse still, directing filth at them via social media is something completely different.

Did you mean "More booing"  ? 

An admission that you were involved with the booing of Clarke doesn't tally with the tone of the rest of your post !

[WhiteWall]

17 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Did you mean "More booing"  ? 

An admission that you were involved with the booing of Clarke doesn't tally with the tone of the rest of your post !

I said the crowd booed. I was in the crowd. I didn't boo. I am not sure where in any of my post I mentioned that I joined in with any booing of our players. Never done it in 51 years as yet.

Haha, just seen it. Sorry you're right, Damn these sausage fingers.  More booing,  apologies.

Edited March 18 by WhiteWall

[Vin1968]

Firstly I didn’t boo yesterday ,

I shouted a lot things like “ let palmer take the penalty”

and pass , “ and no don’t take the free kick “

and my opinion although Raheem sterling is a great player he should of been

subbed at half time , although the cross for palmers goal was good.

then Mudryk being subbed was a complete surprise.

i would like to see poch shouting a few more instructions to the team from pitch side

i don’t want to offend anyone , we will all have different opinions.

[Mod]

More IP's than TalkTalk!

[icecoolguy22]

2 hours ago, JM7 said:

Chelsea fans’ willingness to turn on their own so quickly has not gone unnoticed by those within the squad. Aware the abuse is not confined to the stands, a player’s representative has tried to encourage his player to stop searching for his name on social media (via @Matt_Law_DT)

I don't see it as a Chelsea thing for fans to turn on their players. In this stone age where we meant to get 'outraged' about something everyday, there are always fools out there targeting players online ( unfortunately it's their freedom of speech until they cross a specific line), and can't just be Chelsea fans. How much hate has McGuire got from United fans, Xhaka got from Arsenal crews, Dier at Spurs...

Agree the last thing player should do is to google himself on social, players like that should just quit and become an influencer

[Argo]

1 hour ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Perhaps fans need to reset their expectations then? 

Imagine if players like gusto decide they'd rather play for a club with fans who dont boo their teammates. I am trying to think of other clubs where fans have turned on their players... im struggling right now to think of many if any examples. 

Lol. Pretty much every club outside of England have done A LOT worse than what happened at The Bridge yesterday, certainly ones with ambitions closer to the higher end of the leagues anyway.

Edited March 18 by Argo

[bisright1]

1 hour ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Perhaps fans need to reset their expectations then? 

Imagine if players like gusto decide they'd rather play for a club with fans who dont boo their teammates. I am trying to think of other clubs where fans have turned on their players... im struggling right now to think of many if any examples. 

Gusto used to play for Lyon. 

Them. 

 

[Scott Harris]

4 hours ago, JM7 said:

Chelsea fans’ willingness to turn on their own so quickly has not gone unnoticed by those within the squad. Aware the abuse is not confined to the stands, a player’s representative has tried to encourage his player to stop searching for his name on social media (via @Matt_Law_DT)

We are far more patient than other clubs fans. Go ask what Maguire, McTominay, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford and many others think about the criticism they have received from United fans. 

Honestly, this attempt to constantly make our fanbase out to be worse than other fans and more entitled is a joke. We are looking at 2 full seasons finishing in the second half of the table after being a regular top 4 and regular competitor to the best teams in Europe for years. Nobody can convince me that Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Tottenham or any top club in Europe wouldn't be as pissed as we are. There is plenty of reason to believe the fanbases of these clubs would be FAR worse. We saw what Arsenal fans were like with Wenger, and they were still regularly finishing in the top 4. United fans flip flop by the week calling their fans all of the names under the sun, they are more entitled than anyone. If you took a shot every time a United fan said "we're Manchester United" after a bad result, you would be dead from alcohol poisoning. As much as Liverpool love to say "you'll never walk alone" they were sending death threats to their goalkeeper (who was suffering from concussion) for costing them the Champions League final.

Our fans get criticism, but you won't hear a better reception for a former player when they move on to a different club, even if that club is a major rival. Other rival fans will boo their former players.

[evissy]

8 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

We are far more patient than other clubs fans. Go ask what Maguire, McTominay, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford and many others think about the criticism they have received from United fans. 

Honestly, this attempt to constantly make our fanbase out to be worse than other fans and more entitled is a joke. We are looking at 2 full seasons finishing in the second half of the table after being a regular top 4 and regular competitor to the best teams in Europe for years. Nobody can convince me that Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Tottenham or any top club in Europe wouldn't be as pissed as we are. There is plenty of reason to believe the fanbases of these clubs would be FAR worse. We saw what Arsenal fans were like with Wenger, and they were still regularly finishing in the top 4. United fans flip flop by the week calling their fans all of the names under the sun, they are more entitled than anyone. If you took a shot every time a United fan said "we're Manchester United" after a bad result, you would be dead from alcohol poisoning. As much as Liverpool love to say "you'll never walk alone" they were sending death threats to their goalkeeper (who was suffering from concussion) for costing them the Champions League final.

Our fans get criticism, but you won't hear a better reception for a former player when they move on to a different club, even if that club is a major rival. Other rival fans will boo their former players.

I understand. But are you blind on the way we built the team? Why is this for many fans and the media completely overlooked every day. WE COMPLETELY CHANGED THE SQUAD FROM OLDER SIDE TO A YOUTH TEAM. 

I don't insist age is everything but it is a lot. No matter if you buy top talent for top dollar. 

Aston Villa is a great example. They have a great manager, a perfect aged side with tons of experience. If they had more talent and width in the squad they'd be right up there. Now they are at their peak. That squad is not doing more.

We have (most probably) top talent but lack of age and experience. Game in game out we are not grinding, we are learning. Villa is going for the result. We are learning how to get results. 

To kick our Pochettino to grind out results with this youth side of ours is not sensible to me. 

[dkw]

11 hours ago, Mod said:

More IP's than TalkTalk!

Which returning idiot is it?

[Sexyfootball]

50 minutes ago, evissy said:

WE COMPLETELY CHANGED THE SQUAD FROM OLDER SIDE TO A YOUTH TEAM. 

I don't insist age is everything but it is a lot. No matter if you buy top talent for top dollar. 

The Athletic had a reasonable attempt at trying to define what age footballers peak at, by position, based on the number of minutes being given to them at what age by their managers (with the sensible assumption that all managers will try to select their best team).

Well worth a read : 

https://archive.is/21r0X

Their summary table was as follows (basically the darker a colour the closer a player is to their peak age, with the darkest colour as the actual peak age) : 

 

I thought it would be instructive to map our current squad, plus our other BlueCo signings that are in the academy or on loan, against this table so that we can see how we measure up.

I couldn't quite match the colours they used in the standard Excel palette but close enough :-) 

The graphic does highlight visually how far off "peak" most of our squad probably are ... so surely expectations in the short term have to match that ? Totally unrealistic otherwise ... 

 

 

Considering the injuries on top of the inexperience, I'd say we're making very solid progress to have made the League Cup Final, be in the SF of the FA Cup, and still be in with a shout of 6th or 7th in the PL.

 

 

 

[Andy North]

Wow!

[abister1]

13 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Perhaps fans need to reset their expectations then? 

Imagine if players like gusto decide they'd rather play for a club with fans who dont boo their teammates. I am trying to think of other clubs where fans have turned on their players... im struggling right now to think of many if any examples. 

It's a slippery slope when the fan gets known for it. I can see where the fans are coming from but I think even looking at it from the outcome. It can give short term gain ie forcing the player in that moment to maybe do better or influence a managerial decision such as a change but in future what happens long term could well impact more than that particular player or manager. 

I remember clearly, arguably one of the greatest managers of all time standing with a mic to his mouth at Old Trafford when leaving telling the fans that had supported  him unconditionally once he started to win things that their job as fans was to support the manager. Guess what, even for one season they couldn't do that and Moyes got binned. 

I honestly don't think Moyes was that good but obviously Fergie saw something in him and maybe with a different fan view united might have had a different history from when Moyes took over to now. Guess we'll never know what the knock on effect of fan dissent was to the United winning machine, even though they have still spent heavy sums and actually brought in some big players over time. 

Edited March 19 by abister1

[evissy]

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

The Athletic had a reasonable attempt at trying to define what age footballers peak at, by position, based on the number of minutes being given to them at what age by their managers (with the sensible assumption that all managers will try to select their best team).

Well worth a read : 

https://archive.is/21r0X

Their summary table was as follows (basically the darker a colour the closer a player is to their peak age, with the darkest colour as the actual peak age) : 

 

I thought it would be instructive to map our current squad, plus our other BlueCo signings that are in the academy or on loan, against this table so that we can see how we measure up.

I couldn't quite match the colours they used in the standard Excel palette but close enough 🙂

The graphic does highlight visually how far off "peak" most of our squad probably are ... so surely expectations in the short term have to match that ? Totally unrealistic otherwise ... 

 

 

Considering the injuries on top of the inexperience, I'd say we're making very solid progress to have made the League Cup Final, be in the SF of the FA Cup, and still be in with a shout of 6th or 7th in the PL.

 

 

 

And if fans are surprised Pochettino is still our coach these type of deeper data analysis is hopefully going on inside the club to evaluate whether progress is made or not. Not just the fans' eye-test or results.

Good example of youth players in the league are Foden and for example Liverpool's Elliott. Both gems of their age group and always spearheaded their youth setups on club and country level. Both are protected and eased in to their club by Pep and Klopp. Palmer and Gusto play every minute and carry expectations to be fit and get results. 

Is it optimal for Chelsea or these players only time will tell. No one has really ever attempted this on this level of football and in a club this big. 

[Mod]

4 hours ago, dkw said:

Which returning idiot is it?

Nothing pops out, but to be in England, France and Scotland within 3 posts is something!

[Vin1968]

I’ve been reading information on the forum for years

but have just joined - first posts ever

live near Canterbury kent

im at work now on the crossing from uk to france

not sure where Scotland came from!

I will have to get over being called a troll and an idiot!

[Mod]

6 minutes ago, Vin1968 said:

I’ve been reading information on the forum for years

It wasn't referring to you! Crack on!

[Vin1968]

Thanks for reply mod , will dig some stuff out for vintage page.

dont want poch out just a few improvements lol

[Argo]

4 hours ago, abister1 said:

It's a slippery slope when the fan gets known for it. I can see where the fans are coming from but I think even looking at it from the outcome. It can give short term gain ie forcing the player in that moment to maybe do better or influence a managerial decision such as a change but in future what happens long term could well impact more than that particular player or manager. 

I remember clearly, arguably one of the greatest managers of all time standing with a mic to his mouth at Old Trafford when leaving telling the fans that had supported  him unconditionally once he started to win things that their job as fans was to support the manager. Guess what, even for one season they couldn't do that and Moyes got binned. 

I honestly don't think Moyes was that good but obviously Fergie saw something in him and maybe with a different fan view united might have had a different history from when Moyes took over to now. Guess we'll never know what the knock on effect of fan dissent was to the United winning machine, even though they have still spent heavy sums and actually brought in some big players over time. 

The Fergie argument works both ways though. If they unconditionally supported Ron Atkinson the club may have given him more time which meant they missed out on Fergie in the first place.

[Ukraine Bolt]

18 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd say taking us to Wembley with an injury-hit team with an average age of 23 is every bit as impressive as that first final in 25 years, which I also remember well, and I don't recall any witch hunt aimed at Hoddle when we got pumped 4-nil by Manchester United either ... more realistic expectations back then I guess !

Carabao Cup

2-1 win against Wimbledon (league two)

1-0 win against Brighton

2-0 win against Blackburn (17th in Championship)

1-1 draw with Newcastle, won on penalties

1 win and 1 loss against Middlesborough (10th in Championship)

Loss in the final against Liverpool's kids. 

 

This isn't impressive for Chelsea. Our standards are on the floor and we're accepting mediocrity. 

[olderschoolcfc]

16 hours ago, Argo said:

Lol. Pretty much every club outside of England have done A LOT worse than what happened at The Bridge yesterday, certainly ones with ambitions closer to the higher end of the leagues anyway.

that include F**k Sarri ball? 🙂