That Vine guy is right. Sometimes managers overthink things. Pep is famous for that. 

The question I have for everyone who want to poch to play player in their "correct" position. What is your plan offensively? 

Offensive plan is not murdyk on the LW and because murdyk on the LW, I have to play Cucurella as inverted fb, 3-2-5 auto win. 

 

Chilwell/Mudryk together on the left was always a concern of mine as well.
 

Didn’t we see Chilwell at times play inverted under Tuchel though? 

11 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Chilwell/Mudryk together on the left was always a concern of mine as well.
 

Didn’t we see Chilwell at times play inverted under Tuchel though? 

System or formation is one thing. The more important question is what is your plan of attack? 

For City, it is simple put Haaland in the box. Have somebody close to him, alvarez or gundo. Then have bunch creator to feed him. Done. 

 

 

 

😬😬😬

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

😬😬😬

Sterling with the best creative output in the league. @hephzibah still think he isn't creative?

The stats can help us believe in what we do but we need to bury the chances and start doing it pretty quick. We need the likes of Jackson, Sterling, Mudryk and even Chilwell putting the chances in the net. 

The most expensive skill in in football is scoring a goal. We are putting our trust to Jackson and hopefully soon Broja. Young guns who have never scored consistently in the Prem. 

Hopefully this pays off at some point.

I'm not someone who dismisses stats out of hand by any means, but I simply don't put too much stock into it anymore. Last season aside we've statistically been one of the best teams in Europe for years when it comes to creating chances and possession, but what has it done for us domestically? f**k all, we've not even finished 2nd place during that time. 

I want to see a bit more on the pitch that I'm actually happy with, I want to see more from our young attackers and how they develop into their roles. Seeing that we had 21 shots on target doesn't show progress to me, instead it just pisses me off quite frankly. 

3 hours ago, evissy said:

Hopefully this pays off at some point.

It has to, and it needs to start this Sunday. 

This is supposedly our easy run of the schedule, and we are making it difficult. Just take a look at our November run in.

- Arsenal

- Spurs

- City

- Newcastle

-Brighton

- United

 

Can you imagine the scenario if come the end of October we are still struggling to string in consistent results and then have this run of matches to deal with? We could genuinely be bottom half again. 

 

** Scratch that. We already are!

Edited September 11, 20232 yr by Sconnie Blue

1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

I'm not someone who dismisses stats out of hand by any means, but I simply don't put too much stock into it anymore. Last season aside we've statistically been one of the best teams in Europe for years when it comes to creating chances and possession, but what has it done for us domestically? f**k all, we've not even finished 2nd place during that time. 

I want to see a bit more on the pitch that I'm actually happy with, I want to see more from our young attackers and how they develop into their roles. Seeing that we had 21 shots on target doesn't show progress to me, instead it just pisses me off quite frankly. 

Problem is we either never have the patience to see the teething issues out (Sarri) or panic buy a supposed quick fix (Tuchel getting Lukaku). Even with Potter the underlying performance metrics were starting to improve significantly in his last couple of months (which is why I was still somewhat defending him at the end).

Although I do think failure to get top four would be very disappointing I can't stress how much I think Poch should be left alone if the underlying performance metrics are pointing to sustainable progression.

15 minutes ago, Argo said:

Problem is we either never have the patience to see the teething issues out (Sarri) or panic buy a supposed quick fix (Tuchel getting Lukaku). Even with Potter the underlying performance metrics were starting to improve significantly in his last couple of months (which is why I was still somewhat defending him at the end).

Although I do think failure to get top four would be very disappointing I can't stress how much I think Poch should be left alone if the underlying performance metrics are pointing to sustainable progression.

Yeah I'm not buying the Potter nonsense, things weren't getting better under him at all.

As for Pochettino, things have already been better outside of the results. As frustrated as I've been with the setup in the past few games, it's clear that we've at least bypassed last seasons performances and have gone back to a gazillion shots on target with no goal. 

I believe it'll get better over time by the way, I'm very far from writing the season off that would be ridiculous. 

7 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Yeah I'm not buying the Potter nonsense, things weren't getting better under him at all.

As for Pochettino, things have already been better outside of the results. As frustrated as I've been with the setup in the past few games, it's clear that we've at least bypassed last seasons performances and have gone back to a gazillion shots on target with no goal. 

I believe it'll get better over time by the way, I'm very far from writing the season off that would be ridiculous. 

I'm just worried that is we're say 6th/7th but the metrics point to sustainable progress can you see the majority looking at the bigger picture and not just saying "yeah but it's only results that count?" I hope I'm wrong but I can't see it, it took 10 minutes of the first game until I saw "we're no better than last season" posted.

Regarding Potter I wasn't so much against the sacking perse but the timing, why did we persist through the autumn/winter months when our metrics were genuinely midtable stuff only to sack him when we were getting something resembling a system and not only that effectively chuck away what little was good to reappoint Frank? 

23 minutes ago, Argo said:

I'm just worried that is we're say 6th/7th but the metrics point to sustainable progress can you see the majority looking at the bigger picture and not just saying "yeah but it's only results that count?" I hope I'm wrong but I can't see it, it took 10 minutes of the first game until I saw "we're no better than last season" posted.

Regarding Potter I wasn't so much against the sacking perse but the timing, why did we persist through the autumn/winter months when our metrics were genuinely midtable stuff only to sack him when we were getting something resembling a system and not only that effectively chuck away what little was good to reappoint Frank? 

No I can, I'm not completely disagreeing with you on this point. That's why I said I'm not one to dismiss stats out of hand. But I want to see some better performances on the pitch. I sound like a f**king idiot when I say this but results are actually not something I'm going to be hung up about (as long as it's not like last season ofc), I just want to see better performances and more of our young talent being utilised correctly. As of now it's been a bit frustrating having to watch the sh*thouse tactics that have been put on display.

The reason I brought it up in the first place is because we had this same situation under Lampard and Tuchel, statistically we were great, but we still weren't delivering and we were still far behind on challenging for the title. So as good as our stats look, don't get too invested on them. But yes, you are right, there have been obvious improvements which I'm glad about. That should be the bare minimum though, last season was horrendous. 

The whole Potter thing, honestly I don't know. I think it's obvious they truly believed in the Potter project and someone sold them on the idea. They really did give Potter many opportunities to turn it around and show something. I think sacking him was the correct call, but hiring him in the first place was just utterly ridiculous and the worst call Boehly has made. 

The Frank Lampard appointment also turned out to be a waste of time, despite having the best job security a Chelsea manager could have in the history of the universe he still decided to play players who were leaving and leave our prospects on the bench... Just a complete waste. 

As for the Pochettino project, well we need to give him time, no question, and I believe that we will turn this form around. 

Edited September 11, 20232 yr by Victor90

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Although I do think failure to get top four would be very disappointing I can't stress how much I think Poch should be left alone if the underlying performance metrics are pointing to sustainable progression.

But at what cost? At the end of the day, its a result driven business. 

As I mentioned above, we are already struggling in what is a relatively easy fixture list with the big guns coming Nov/Dec. We could be well off the pack by then and dare I say just be above relegation again come 2024 if we don't turn these chances into goals and goals into wins. That is the only sustainable progression we need. I can't stress enough the importance in Poch turning these performances into results. Starting Sunday. 

Finishing 6th/7th is one thing, its finishing bottom half again after another £400m spent, with one match a week, that is a completely different perspective. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

But at what cost? At the end of the day, its a result driven business. 

As I mentioned above, we are already struggling in what is a relatively easy fixture list with the big guns coming Nov/Dec. We could be well off the pack by then and dare I say just be above relegation again come 2024 if we don't turn these chances into goals and goals into wins. That is the only sustainable progression we need. I can't stress enough the importance in Poch turning these performances into results. Starting Sunday. 

Finishing 6th/7th is one thing, its finishing bottom half again after another £400m spent, with one match a week, that is a completely different perspective. 

But if we sh*t out a top 4 finish we'll basically be just kicking the can down the road and having to face the exact same issues again somewhere along the line, as seen with Spurs under Conte and United pretty much every time they've finished top 4 post Fergie. It's one thing going one track minded with the title a possibility, not so much when it comes to merely qualifying for a competition we probably won't even win.

Obviously being bottom half is a different ball game but 7th or even 8th with strong signs of progression for me means Pochettino should be left alone. Especially when we've invested in such a young team all be it at big expense we have you need to look deeper than just instant results when accessing progress, I could feesably imagine a situation come May where I'm largely happy with Pochettino's work despite a 7th place finish but equally I can picture being skeptical about his long term future after finishing 3rd.

41 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

But at what cost? At the end of the day, its a result driven business. 

As I mentioned above, we are already struggling in what is a relatively easy fixture list with the big guns coming Nov/Dec. We could be well off the pack by then and dare I say just be above relegation again come 2024 if we don't turn these chances into goals and goals into wins. That is the only sustainable progression we need. I can't stress enough the importance in Poch turning these performances into results. Starting Sunday. 

Finishing 6th/7th is one thing, its finishing bottom half again after another £400m spent, with one match a week, that is a completely different perspective. 

 

 

I doubt Poch will be any danger this season as long as we aren't doing so badly that we get pulled into a relegation battle. That being said I am sure that the owners will want to see some signs of progress over the course of the season.  

37 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

But at what cost? At the end of the day, its a result driven business. 

As I mentioned above, we are already struggling in what is a relatively easy fixture list with the big guns coming Nov/Dec.

 

 

When the fixtures came out, it seemed to be good that we were playing these 'lesser' teams early on, but in hindsight they have been tough teams to break down and they have parked the bus. Our best performance was against Liverpool and that is because they came to play football. We have a young and fast team. A quick footed team. A team that has talent and can play.  So if a team comes for a game, they will get a game. But we have zero experience and gamesmanship and we are a bit lost, so far, when a team digs in. I mean there is nothing wrong with parking the bus. Also, 3 CBs against Liverpool made sense. Against these other teams, not so much.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

But if we sh*t out a top 4 finish we'll basically be just kicking the can down the road and having to face the exact same issues again somewhere along the line, as seen with Spurs under Conte and United pretty much every time they've finished top 4 post Fergie. It's one thing going one track minded with the title a possibility, not so much when it comes to merely qualifying for a competition we probably won't even win.

Obviously being bottom half is a different ball game but 7th or even 8th with strong signs of progression for me means Pochettino should be left alone. Especially when we've invested in such a young team all be it at big expense we have you need to look deeper than just instant results when accessing progress, I could feesably imagine a situation come May where I'm largely happy with Pochettino's work despite a 7th place finish but equally I can picture being skeptical about his long term future after finishing 3rd.

Think the bold is moreso satisfying FFP regulations vs expecting to actually win it, if ownership do indeed care about complying with FFP vs the suggestions they are already preparing a fee/transfer ban. 

11 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

When the fixtures came out, it seemed to be good that we were playing these 'lesser' teams early on, but in hindsight they have been tough teams to break down and they have parked the bus. Our best performance was against Liverpool and that is because they came to play football. We have a young and fast team. A quick footed team. A team that has talent and can play.  So if a team comes for a game, they will get a game. But we have zero experience and gamesmanship and we are a bit lost, so far, when a team digs in. I mean there is nothing wrong with parking the bus. Also, 3 CBs against Liverpool made sense. Against these other teams, not so much.

Our record against Liverpool was still good under Potter tbf.

My issue is that we can't even take the good performances and turn them into results. It's why I fear we won't get anything during that run in bar the inevitable United draw. (A team we should be spanking)/ 

One thing that did concern me with Poch (despite it being funny) is him not knowing who Sarr was, it raises a red flag regarding his homework into the squad. You need to be OBSESSED to be successful, his mentor Biesla should have taught him that surely. You’ve just taken the biggest job of your career and you haven’t analysed the entire team, whether they are on loan or not, it’s concerning. I hope he was watching the England u21’s with Palmer and Madueke playing together so seamlessly, but it’s the details like this that make me doubt his full and ‘obsessed’ involvement in all the finer details. 

Think that may be a bit reaching mate. 

this is well said about the rebuild by Liam Twomey. 

As fans we should get behind this squad and realize this is first part of the build. Next part is to gain experience and start winning again. 

Let's enjoy the young new squad and root for them and let them fail. This might well be a very exciting time. We can see players bursting to new levels. This is not 2004-2005. We are not the same club in a league like it was. The league is 100 times more competitive and the football itself is different. 

 

On 11/09/2023 at 15:14, Sconnie Blue said:

It has to, and it needs to start this Sunday. 

This is supposedly our easy run of the schedule, and we are making it difficult. Just take a look at our November run in.

- Arsenal

- Spurs

- City

- Newcastle

-Brighton

- United

 

Can you imagine the scenario if come the end of October we are still struggling to string in consistent results and then have this run of matches to deal with? We could genuinely be bottom half again. 

 

** Scratch that. We already are!

Apparently the " low block" used by opponents is a massive problem for us.

Maybe a more open game against those teams will suit us ?

On 12/09/2023 at 01:20, Argo said:

I can't stress how much I think Poch should be left alone if the underlying performance metrics are pointing to sustainable progression.

The only metric that shows sustainable progression is wins, though.

I assume you are referring to things like xG and chance creation etc. They only have a tangential association with results simply because in football there is no guarantee that the better team wins their games. 

1 hour ago, SydneyChelsea said:

The only metric that shows sustainable progression is wins, though.

I assume you are referring to things like xG and chance creation etc. They only have a tangential association with results simply because in football there is no guarantee that the better team wins their games. 

Agree however the way we are currently built, It is hard to expect win after win. 

Nkunku went down and poch preferred a lb over his attacking option. Carney went down and once again he played Enzo up high rather than his attacking option. 

 

Edited September 13, 20232 yr by Bob stark

2 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Agree however the way we are currently built, It is hard to expect win after win. 

Nkunku went down and poch preferred a lb over his attacking option. Carney went down and once again he played Enzo up high rather than his attacking option. 

 

Pochettino has control over those decisions, though. You can see the current system tries to keep the defensive centre while allowing the fullbacks particularly Chilwell to function as wingers. That's all great in theory but it's got Raheem Sterling creating chances for Ben Chilwell to finish from the opposite wing, which is far from optimal. It's got players in reversed roles. Imagine City relying on Haaland creating chances for Grealish to finish!

Until we get Nkunku back we need to get another central attacking player in the box for chances and not rely on Chilwell as a winger or Enzo as number 10. Neither of those situations lead to consistent goals.

Edited September 13, 20232 yr by SydneyChelsea