Lost count of number of players we have bought. Trouble is they are not young cheap players we will make better and take year plus to reach PL level.   We have paid huge sums and they therefore think they are super stars and should play every week. With so many expensive players not getting picked it cannot help the atmosphere in the squad.   Spending over a billion will buy a lot of players but does not buy a TEAM.  Sorry to say City who have the money do not act this way. 2 out and 2 quality players in that they know will fit in is there method. They dont get in the side until good enough.Take Grealish. Ages before was a regular but squad was small enough for him to always feel part of it.

We now have farce of players in the squad who are clearly not up to it at the moment just because we have paid huge fees for

7 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Whisper it quietly but Liverpool have assembled a new midfield 3 for slightly more than the cost of Caicedo, and two of the three are lookin rather effective already.

Klopp bought what they need, not stock piling or with future profits in mind. They bought a 30 year old MF from Germany, looked ordinary on paper but they only need 2-3 seasons out of an experienced International player, and paid less than we did for some wonder kid nobody heard of before. Most of us were keen to see what Santos could offer, but where is he now, is he even going to get into the team next season after we spent 180M on 2 players?

.

Edited September 4, 20232 yr by OriginalS

6 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

It comes down to the same issue as last year - that some on here need to have an acceptance of our current situation and a necessary managing of expectations.

Also Jim, let's say our next 38 games are about as bad as our last 38 and we find ourselves in the Championship in one year.

Is it then on the fans to "accept" and "manage the situation" and support the owners and directors or would everyone be right to be absolutely furious? 

Because I got a funny feeling you probably would have said "Trust the process" if we found ourselves in the middle of the Championship in a season or two. It's just a buzz-phrase meant to fool the masses but where there's been no concrete evidence of things improving for a whole year(!) it's just blind hope that doesn't help anyone.

Again, we beat Real Madrid at the Bernabeu days before the owners took over.
Now we have been a relegation side for a full season.
The fall have been of biblical proportions.

3 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Also Jim, let's say our next 38 games are about as bad as our last 38 and we find ourselves in the Championship in one year.

Is it then on the fans to "accept" and "manage the situation" and support the owners and directors or would everyone be right to be absolutely furious? 

Because I got a funny feeling you probably would have said "Trust the process" if we found ourselves in the middle of the Championship in a season or two. It's just a buzz-phrase meant to fool the masses but where there's been no concrete evidence of things improving for a whole year(!) it's just blind hope that doesn't help anyone.

Again, we beat Real Madrid at the Bernabeu days before the owners took over.
Now we have been a relegation side for a full season.
The fall have been of biblical proportions.

It depends on the timescale that you view things through.

If you are viewing success through the immediate, short term charlie time frame, then you will see any dip as catastrophic. In that case, outside of top 4x middle table, relegation etc is a disaster, and you will instead prefer the short term plaster over long term systemic change.

If you are looking at things through a longer term 5, 10 or even 20 year window, then things become more palatable and understandable. I can take a dip if i think it is justified for the greater good.

 

3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

It depends on the timescale that you view things through.

If you are viewing success through the immediate, short term charlie time frame, then you will see any dip as catastrophic. In that case, outside of top 4x middle table, relegation etc is a disaster, and you will instead prefer the short term plaster over long term systemic change.

If you are looking at things through a longer term 5, 10 or even 20 year window, then things become more palatable and understandable. I can take a dip if i think it is justified for the greater good.

 

So if we got relegated you'd still be in support of the blueprint/ownership because we may, at some point in the future become a top club again?

 

10 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Also Jim, let's say our next 38 games are about as bad as our last 38 and we find ourselves in the Championship in one year.

Our last 4 games have seen a marked improvement over last season. Yes the results haven't been good, but the underlying stats blow last season out the water.

Some of the reactions I've seen on here and on twitter this weekend are frankly embarrassing.




We go into an international break now with some wounds to lick, sure. But we also have a system that clearly works, young players with points to prove, and several now coming back from injury (Badiashile, Trev, and Broja should be back after the break, with Carney to follow not too long after).

No one likes losing, but things arent as bad as some reactions would have you think.

KTBFFH.
 

9 minutes ago, cfr95 said:

But we also have a system that clearly works

Everyone is literally dying for him to change it.

1 minute ago, OriginalS said:

Everyone is literally dying for him to change it.

I wont put much stock in that as everyone has it in their heads its a back 3, despite what the players, manager, and data says to the contrary.

13 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Everyone is literally dying for him to change it.

The system is fine, the personnel are being used poorly. Enzo needs to be deeper, Chilly shouldn't be on the wing, Colwill shouldn't be LB, Disasi shouldn't be getting game time and an actual winger should be taking up Chilly's role. 

42 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

The system is fine, the personnel are being used poorly. Enzo needs to be deeper, Chilly shouldn't be on the wing, Colwill shouldn't be LB, Disasi shouldn't be getting game time and an actual winger should be taking up Chilly's role. 

The system could work with different personell, I would agree with that. But we have what we have and it doesn't fit our current setup particularly well. Caicedo can't be a lone 6 either and he is which have been quite disasterous. Sanchez can't be our first choice GK either but he is and likely will continue to be, there aren't many options at LW and so on.

51 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Enzo needs to be deeper,

I don't hate Conor and Enzo inverting. Reminds me of how Oscar would drop deep and drag players with him, leaving space for Fabregas to push up into.

5 minutes ago, cfr95 said:

I don't hate Conor and Enzo inverting. Reminds me of how Oscar would drop deep and drag players with him, leaving space for Fabregas to push up into.

I don't mind it happening occasionally but he seems to be spending most of his game as a 10 when his best attributes are as a progressor of the ball best utilised from deep. 

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

So if we got relegated you'd still be in support of the blueprint/ownership because we may, at some point in the future become a top club again?

 

I think we need to get straight, that I am 100% in agreement that there are huge risks that their model presents. The clearlake MO of buying young unproven potential is fraught with danger...

....but any significant shift that radically departed from the old way of working would also be risky - but with potentially less upsides.

We needed a change. We have a change. We might not all 100% agree with the new owners model - but it is what we have, and therefore, we are best serving its success by getting behind it. 

I don't think we will get relegated. So I don't think the scenario you pose is a risk. 

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

So if we got relegated you'd still be in support of the blueprint/ownership because we may, at some point in the future become a top club again?

 

In that scenario we must be nailed on to win the expanded FIFA Club World Cup as a Championship side LOL. "It's a Chelsea thing ... " 🙂 

4 hours ago, cfr95 said:

I wont put much stock in that as everyone has it in their heads its a back 3, despite what the players, manager, and data says to the contrary.

Thank you I kept seeing we need to change systems we need to play this system when the system we have had the players took their chances we wouldn’t have lost any matches.

This is growing pains the manager is picking the team he sees performing in training while fans pick teams based on what they only see in games. 
It’s baffling that some fans really think   Poch is picking a team he thinks can’t win all the games we have had.

A perfect example of players not being clinical is Chilwell against Luton on the penalty spot just to keeper to beat what does he do try to square it to Sterling, Poch can’t plan for bad decision making the players must take responsibility.

4 hours ago, cfr95 said:

Our last 4 games have seen a marked improvement over last season. Yes the results haven't been good, but the underlying stats blow last season out the water.

Some of the reactions I've seen on here and on twitter this weekend are frankly embarrassing.




We go into an international break now with some wounds to lick, sure. But we also have a system that clearly works, young players with points to prove, and several now coming back from injury (Badiashile, Trev, and Broja should be back after the break, with Carney to follow not too long after).

No one likes losing, but things arent as bad as some reactions would have you think.

KTBFFH.
 

System is fine. Issue is clearly personnel and the lack of attacking threats. 

5 hours ago, cfr95 said:

Our last 4 games have seen a marked improvement over last season. Yes the results haven't been good, but the underlying stats blow last season out the water.

Some of the reactions I've seen on here and on twitter this weekend are frankly embarrassing.




We go into an international break now with some wounds to lick, sure. But we also have a system that clearly works, young players with points to prove, and several now coming back from injury (Badiashile, Trev, and Broja should be back after the break, with Carney to follow not too long after).

No one likes losing, but things arent as bad as some reactions would have you think.

KTBFFH.
 

Is a bit screwed when you consider all of West Ham, Luton and Forest were happy to just let us have the ball.

The important Stat is our ability, or lack there of, to score goals. 1 billion spent, 30mill on 1 striker in 3 windows? 

Is on the pitch success not an important part of their businesses model? 

We've bought a boat load of players with potential, We're guaranteed nothing and this is going to take a long time to get it right.

Poch is making some weird decisions and I don't understand why he's scrapped what he did in pre-season. Is it the Nkunku injury that's made him switch so drastically?

We've got to be patient.

8 hours ago, OriginalS said:

Everyone is literally dying for him to change it.

Good God I didn't know it was that bad!!!

Rest in peace, my thoughts are with their friends and family.

8 hours ago, cfr95 said:

Our last 4 games have seen a marked improvement over last season. Yes the results haven't been good, but the underlying stats blow last season out the water.

Some of the reactions I've seen on here and on twitter this weekend are frankly embarrassing.




We go into an international break now with some wounds to lick, sure. But we also have a system that clearly works, young players with points to prove, and several now coming back from injury (Badiashile, Trev, and Broja should be back after the break, with Carney to follow not too long after).

No one likes losing, but things arent as bad as some reactions would have you think.

KTBFFH.
 

Thanks  Are we now expected to think all is ok.  Sorry too many people think ok to spend £50/100m on a player lose a few games and be told they are for the future.  good business if we pay £5/10 and then make them better.

Paid so much money for Mudryk manager obligated to put in squad when has little to offer. Also after all media hype Colwill another not ready.  Had a look at stats and he was not always first choice

9 minutes ago, Pottery said:

Thanks  Are we now expected to think all is ok.  Sorry too many people think ok to spend £50/100m on a player lose a few games and be told they are for the future.  good business if we pay £5/10 and then make them better.

Paid so much money for Mudryk manager obligated to put in squad when has little to offer. Also after all media hype Colwill another not ready.  Had a look at stats and he was not always first choice

There's middle ground between thinking all is great and putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring promising underlying metrics.

Last year people constantly pointed out that Potter's unbeaten start had a lot of luck to it, why can't the same be said when things are in reverse?

https://x.com/xgphilosophy/status/1698661500418727964?s=46&t=IGn8vp6h7M1KeMBA4aOgnw
 

Edited September 4, 20232 yr by RIP Mourinho

6 hours ago, El regreso said:

Thank you I kept seeing we need to change systems we need to play this system when the system we have had the players took their chances we wouldn’t have lost any matches.

This is growing pains the manager is picking the team he sees performing in training while fans pick teams based on what they only see in games. 
It’s baffling that some fans really think   Poch is picking a team he thinks can’t win all the games we have had.

A perfect example of players not being clinical is Chilwell against Luton on the penalty spot just to keeper to beat what does he do try to square it to Sterling, Poch can’t plan for bad decision making the players must take responsibility.

Yes, and no.

Playing a formation is one thing but the players in those positions will give the formation its character, surely.

Regardless of whether we play 352, 433, 442, 4141, 5311,  having six players in those positions whose natural footballing characteristics, i.e their natural and first instincts, are of a defensive nature  (Gusto, Disasi, Silva, Colwill, Chilwell, Caicedo) will surely inhibit us when playing against teams that come to SB and play a low block. Add to this a central midfielder (Enzo) with a free range but little apparent natural shooting tendencies, Gallagher with a desparate willingness to please but again little confident attacking intent currently, and a right midfielder who (brilliant as he has been) is finding relative success from running with the ball into and through traffic rather than passing around it, is it any wonder Jackson as a lone striker and us as a team overall look toothless and easy to play against.

Hey, i think Poch will sort it out and i still have faith. But he has talked the talk with his early pressers about this being a club where winning is the first rule. Now he needs to walk the walk. Five games played, four league and a league cup to lower league opposition. 4 of the 5 games conceded in. All but 1 game had to come from behind. From the first 4 games a reasonbale expected points would have been 8 points, instead we are at 4, 3 points of which came against the odds on favourites for relegation. The honeymoon is definitely over before it got started and Poch needs to assess the approach so far to be totally sure that this is the way to go. 

It looks well unbalanced to me, but hey that's just me

It's a completely cowardly approach playing all those defenders and forcing defenders and midfielders to be attackers. Caicedo is not a lone 6 we have already seen that. in 2/3 games he has made mistakes. Despite the price tag and the ability it's too much too soon. Play enzo a bit deeper to help and let conor or palmer stay further forward. Drop one of the back 3 and play a left sided attacker.

I don't care what the system nominally is. If you pick 3 centre backs and 2 full backs then you are playing a back 5 no matter where they stand on the field at kick off.

Really its not that hard.

Above all else empower the players to go for it. Let them loose, ultimately that's what Ange has done at spuds. 

We have already wasted the first 10% of the season. 

It's so irritating, the crowd is unforgiving but if you are going to get booed, and you will, at least give it a go.

We have been unlucky and it's better than last season. That's because this group of players does have something to prove and desperately want to succeed whereas last year the lads were just mailing it in. But it could be so much better. 

This sterile possess completely destroys confidence. Look at Havertz. He is a good player who has been psychologically ruined, that goal he missed agains ManU and diving, it's because he has run into a block and his mind isn't letting him play. That will happen to people like Jackson and Mudryck and Caicedo unless we get the mind set right.