2 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

 

Obviously stats aren't everything, but this is promising

Last season aside, this has been a story for years now. 

To a point where we all expect it, if Jackson missed that chance 5 years ago, we would be blowing up about it on here but we're so desensitised to that sort of thing we expect it. 

Bottom line, injuries or no injuries, we have the players to be doing far better than we currently are. I can accept losses, I can even accept the fact we've only won one game out of 4, it's a new season, but f**k me, I can't accept this current approach to how we're playing. It seems like a total waste of time, we've got so many kids itching to prove themselves and instead Chilwell is playing as our winger and we've got 3 centre backs on the pitch.

If I see this lineup one more time after the international break, well... Let's just say RIP Victor90, you'll finally be rid of me @nonotnowjim

So we are about to go all spursy?

5 hours ago, evissy said:

I really hope our fanbase and the club are more aligned with the chances and expectations with this group. It seems they are not. Even in this forum people are knee jerking after a loss. 

I fully expect us to lose at least 10 Prem games this season. 

Media: 1bn Pound team

Chelsea: we are building a long term project with young talented players

Fans: hopefully with Chelsea on this.

I hate when people here who follow how and why we do things go into that media agenda that itself is just a shallow reflection on what we do. 1bn Pound Chelsea misery sells papers.

We aren't knee jerking. I heard all of this last season and we finished 12th, looking like one of the worst teams in the league, and now we have started the season looking no different. At what point should we be concerned? Because being one of the worst teams in the league since January and having a £1b debt owed to clubs over the next 8 years seems like a perfectly valid reason to be concerned. 

4 hours ago, Whats_The_Mata? said:

I'm very angry at the owners not the players because I expected this loss just as I expected to lose 15 games before the season started and I expect to lose 15 next season and the season after.

Signing a bunch of average young players for big money and hoping not expecting they'll magically be a competitive squad in a few years isn't a project and it isn't how any serious club conducts business.

It isn't that this squad is worth 1b it's that we've spent 1bn on such poor players we have a squad that has no chance of competing in either the short or the long term because it isn't like we've even signed top young talents there isn't anyone other than Enzo or Caciedo you can really see reaching the top level and we paid world record fees for both.

We've gone for the quantity over quality approach and somehow spent £30m a piece on a bunch of tier 3 prospects.

feels like we've sold the house to buy lottery tickets.

This is my fear with the young players too.

What do we even have to go on that they will make it to the top of the game? not much, it's all potential, but every young player at the level we signed these players from has potential. Who's to say that Madueke, Mudryk, Jackson, Palmer and Gusto have more potential than any player at their age? 

5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

This is my fear with the young players too.

What do we even have to go on that they will make it to the top of the game? not much, it's all potential, but every young player at the level we signed these players from has potential. Who's to say that Madueke, Mudryk, Jackson, Palmer and Gusto have more potential than any player at their age? 

It's data driven right?

Same data that said Potter was the right man for the job....

This buying potential business model is making a mess of the team. We all know Poch is good at developing young players, but simply not having the time to develop 8-10 players on top of managing the team. Caicedo will work himself out sooner or later, what about Levia? Somehow Poch needs to fit him into the team, but we all know Caciedo\Levia\Enzo won't get you goals. Apart from annoying Liverpool, would that money be better spent on an established attacking player? Jackson is not ready to be the starting striker at 21. Palmer, Medueke, Mudryk, which one do you pick? Poch doesn't know or have a best 11, of course the team will struggle on the field. International break couldn't come at a better time for us,  a couple of weeks hopefully James will return, and some players getting  game time with their countries

23 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

We aren't knee jerking. I heard all of this last season and we finished 12th, looking like one of the worst teams in the league, and now we have started the season looking no different. At what point should we be concerned? Because being one of the worst teams in the league since January and having a £1b debt owed to clubs over the next 8 years seems like a perfectly valid reason to be concerned. 

With you there mate. I believe we have a better chance of being in a relegation battle than a top 5 battle this season.

Lucky for us all of Luton, Everton and Sheff United look terrible.

1 minute ago, icecoolguy22 said:

This buying potential business model is making a mess of the team. We all know Poch is good at developing young players, but simply not having the time to develop 8-10 players on top of managing the team. Caicedo will work himself out sooner or later, what about Levia? Somehow Poch needs to fit him into the team, but we all know Caciedo\Levia\Enzo won't get you goals. Apart from annoying Liverpool, would that money be better spent on an established attacking player? Jackson is not ready to be the starting striker at 21. Palmer, Medueke, Mudryk, which one do you pick? Poch doesn't know or have a best 11, of course the team will struggle on the field. International break couldn't come at a better time for us,  a couple of weeks hopefully James will return, and some players getting  game time with their countries

Whisper it quietly but Liverpool have assembled a new midfield 3 for slightly more than the cost of Caicedo, and two of the three are lookin rather effective already.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Whisper it quietly but Liverpool have assembled a new midfield 3 for slightly more than the cost of Caicedo, and two of the three are lookin rather effective already.

This is the thing and every other team we play seems to have found a decent striker for less than £50m... that's why you wonder what's going on.

3 hours ago, Victor90 said:

Last season aside, this has been a story for years now. 

To a point where we all expect it, if Jackson missed that chance 5 years ago, we would be blowing up about it on here but we're so desensitised to that sort of thing we expect it. 

Bottom line, injuries or no injuries, we have the players to be doing far better than we currently are. I can accept losses, I can even accept the fact we've only won one game out of 4, it's a new season, but f**k me, I can't accept this current approach to how we're playing. It seems like a total waste of time, we've got so many kids itching to prove themselves and instead Chilwell is playing as our winger and we've got 3 centre backs on the pitch.

If I see this lineup one more time after the international break, well... Let's just say RIP Victor90, you'll finally be rid of me @nonotnowjim

I agree that the style of play needs to change. It  has been crying out for a bit of urgency for a long time. 

7 hours ago, bisright1 said:

How do you feel about losing 18-20 games? We aren't on track to lose 10, we're on track to lose double that.

I'm all for letting the project take time to come through, but the way we've been set up seems to be without any logic. 

If Poch puts out 4-2-3-1, with players in their actual positions, and we lose, then I'd accept it as part of the process. But not this. 

The number of games we lose is irrelevant, IF it achieves the positive long term change of culture and approach at the club that the owners are trying for, and which the team has needed for years.

10 games lost? 20 games? whatever! The transition period, moving from short term fixes to long term planning, will be painful. It was painful under Potter. It will continue to be painful under Poch.

I don't think these youngsters will win the league this year. I doubt that these youngsters will get top 6 this year. I don't see these youngsters getting relegated this year either.  Therefore - assuming all of those things play out, we will finish somewhere between 7th and 17th - so the number of games we win/lose becomes less important than the need to actually imbed the new players and new style - forming them into a cohesive team, with a system that works - as opposed to the expensively assembled group of players they currently are. 

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

We aren't knee jerking. I heard all of this last season and we finished 12th, looking like one of the worst teams in the league, and now we have started the season looking no different. At what point should we be concerned? Because being one of the worst teams in the league since January and having a £1b debt owed to clubs over the next 8 years seems like a perfectly valid reason to be concerned. 

Really? I see more of the hyperbolic sentiments that we got last season. The season is already over etc. 

It comes down to the same issue as last year - that some on here need to have an acceptance of our current situation and a necessary managing of expectations.

I know you don't agree, but the team has been stagnant for years - short term thinking which has resulted in plasters being put over deep wounds as a short term solution. It had to stop.

The new owners are trying something different. Yes it is a gamble. Yes it might backfire. Yes these kids might all turn into the next hudson odoi rather than the next haaland.  You, me or others might have concerns about this gamble - but it is happening.

Therefore as fans, we have 2 ways to go.

We can accept the situation for what it is, get behind the process, show support and patience as the new process progresses, and generally doing what we can to help the process rather than hinder it.

The other option of bitching and complaining, with the fans booing the young lads off the park, and creating a self entitled toxic atmosphere, 4 games into the season, isn't going to help the process.  

It will take time. And even then it might fail. But let's get behind the lads....

6 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

 

Obviously stats aren't everything, but this is promising

😱😱😱

So the stats actually back me up. 😱😱

You don't need stats to see that we are playing well in general. You replace Jackson with Haaland, Chilwell with Nkunku and everyone will think that poch is a genius. 

19 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

😱😱😱

So the stats actually back me up. 😱😱

You don't need stats to see that we are playing well in general. You replace Jackson with Haaland, Chilwell with Nkunku and everyone will think that poch is a genius. 

I think you are broadly correct. There has been progression, as there was towards the end of potters time, where we had some half decent performances without getting the results that they deserved.

Where Poch has failed, is a lack of plan B when the team are struggling to break down a deep defence. His method of simply throwing on more attackers isn't working, and has made us look worse in games.

46 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Really? I see more of the hyperbolic sentiments that we got last season. The season is already over etc. 

It comes down to the same issue as last year - that some on here need to have an acceptance of our current situation and a necessary managing of expectations.

I know you don't agree, but the team has been stagnant for years - short term thinking which has resulted in plasters being put over deep wounds as a short term solution. It had to stop.

The new owners are trying something different. Yes it is a gamble. Yes it might backfire. Yes these kids might all turn into the next hudson odoi rather than the next haaland.  You, me or others might have concerns about this gamble - but it is happening.

Therefore as fans, we have 2 ways to go.

We can accept the situation for what it is, get behind the process, show support and patience as the new process progresses, and generally doing what we can to help the process rather than hinder it.

The other option of bitching and complaining, with the fans booing the young lads off the park, and creating a self entitled toxic atmosphere, 4 games into the season, isn't going to help the process.  

It will take time. And even then it might fail. But let's get behind the lads....

Forest shows it is going to be option 2 Jim.

5 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I think you are broadly correct. There has been progression, as there was towards the end of potters time, where we had some half decent performances without getting the results that they deserved.

Where Poch has failed, is a lack of plan B when the team are struggling to break down a deep defence. His method of simply throwing on more attackers isn't working, and has made us look worse in games.

Why does our attack looks worse when we throw in more attackers? 

How about better question? Out of Madueke, Mudryk and Palmer yesterday who do you think deserve to start after yesterday performance? 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Why does our attack looks worse when we throw in more attackers? 

How about better question? Out of Madueke, Mudryk and Palmer yesterday who do you think deserve to start after yesterday performance? 

 

 

 

I thought Palmer looked best out of those 3.

17 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Forest shows it is going to be option 2 Jim.

Yep - and so the vicious cycle of self entitlement will continue.

48 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I think you are broadly correct. There has been progression, as there was towards the end of potters time, where we had some half decent performances without getting the results that they deserved.

Where Poch has failed, is a lack of plan B when the team are struggling to break down a deep defence. His method of simply throwing on more attackers isn't working, and has made us look worse in games.

Pochettino,  Lampard, Potter and often  Tuchel. None developed a consistent way to defeat the low block.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

I thought Palmer looked best out of those 3.

😬😬😬 

You just answer your own question

 

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Really? I see more of the hyperbolic sentiments that we got last season. The season is already over etc. 

It comes down to the same issue as last year - that some on here need to have an acceptance of our current situation and a necessary managing of expectations.

I know you don't agree, but the team has been stagnant for years - short term thinking which has resulted in plasters being put over deep wounds as a short term solution. It had to stop.

The new owners are trying something different. Yes it is a gamble. Yes it might backfire. Yes these kids might all turn into the next hudson odoi rather than the next haaland.  You, me or others might have concerns about this gamble - but it is happening.

Therefore as fans, we have 2 ways to go.

We can accept the situation for what it is, get behind the process, show support and patience as the new process progresses, and generally doing what we can to help the process rather than hinder it.

The other option of bitching and complaining, with the fans booing the young lads off the park, and creating a self entitled toxic atmosphere, 4 games into the season, isn't going to help the process.  

It will take time. And even then it might fail. But let's get behind the lads....

Nonotnowjim I completely agree with you on not bitching and complaining, most of the support on here would agree booing the players doesn't help,but I'm afraid a large lot of the match day tourists and those who feel we should win everything will carry-on shouting and booing the manager and players because they don't understand proper support though ups and downs.

6 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

This buying potential business model is making a mess of the team. We all know Poch is good at developing young players, but simply not having the time to develop 8-10 players on top of managing the team. Caicedo will work himself out sooner or later, what about Levia? Somehow Poch needs to fit him into the team, but we all know Caciedo\Levia\Enzo won't get you goals. Apart from annoying Liverpool, would that money be better spent on an established attacking player? Jackson is not ready to be the starting striker at 21. Palmer, Medueke, Mudryk, which one do you pick? Poch doesn't know or have a best 11, of course the team will struggle on the field. International break couldn't come at a better time for us,  a couple of weeks hopefully James will return, and some players getting  game time with their countries

Said it at the time the signing made no sense, and I haven’t changed my mind. You are not going to bench a £50m+ DM, and we didn’t need him. Seems they just bought him just because they can. There is also another £20m DM stuck on the bench with no clear plan. Oh and they are still trying to buy another £20m DM. Why we have spent £180m+ on DMs, very young ones at that is anyone’s guess.

7 minutes ago, ducavis said:

Said it at the time the signing made no sense, and I haven’t changed my mind. You are not going to bench a £50m+ DM, and we didn’t need him. Seems they just bought him just because they can. There is also another £20m DM stuck on the bench with no clear plan. Oh and they are still trying to buy another £20m DM. Why we have spent £180m+ on DMs, very young ones at that is anyone’s guess.

You almost forget about our 1000 LW/RW wonder kid 😬😬

If we do our due diligence every day and leave everything on the pitch every time we are bound to score those chances and start winning games. These young lads need to believe it is all about the output. Their skills are there. Less skilled players win games in the Prem with maximum output.

As Poch said it will be up and down. 

4 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

The new owners are trying something different. Yes it is a gamble. Yes it might backfire. Yes these kids might all turn into the next hudson odoi rather than the next haaland.  You, me or others might have concerns about this gamble - but it is happening.

It has backfired. Let's be real.

We've generally been battered on a weekly basis for a full year, let's not have a go at fans for being incredibly frustrated and perhaps even lashing out verbally. Imagine saying something like this a year ago.

"I think Boehly and the owners are a complete joke and I predict that for the next 38 (full season) we'll be in relegation form for all of it"

You'd have been laughed out of here but it's reality. For a whole season now we've been a relegation battler.

"Trust the process" at this point is like Captain Edward Smith shouting "The rescue process is in progress, have faith" at this point.

Edited September 4, 20232 yr by OriginalS