Surprised people thought Torres played well. Or am I ..?

He was at best, efficient. We are crying out for some top quality up there and he just isn't going to deliver. Anyone see Cavanis goal yesterday?Just what we lack. We need confidence, assertivness and quality from our number 9.

Jose ain't stupid. Pretty sure yesterday will be one of only a few league starts 'Nando' has for us this campaign.

Here's hoping Lukaku gets the nod on Wed.

Edited August 19, 201312 yr by bjd

Are we really having this discussion again?

He was ok yesterday, won a penalty and the free kick from which we scored. Faded along with the rest of the team second half!

Jose is no mug, if he doesn't think that Torres is doing enough for the team then he will drop him, if he thinks that he is part of a winning formula expect to see him continue.

And just so I'm right, we have only played 1 competetive game yes???

Funny that. If Lukaku had won the penalty and that freekick people would be raving for 5-star performance and how he made the difference. Torres does it and it is okay performance. He can't win, can he? But we've been through this also 25 times so...

Funny that. If Lukaku had won the penalty and that freekick people would be raving for 5-star performance and how he made the difference. Torres does it and it is okay performance. He can't win, can he? But we've been through this also 25 times so...

 

Exactly!

 

The difficulty for assessing his performance yesterday is in the comparison to others around him, who all had outstanding games.

 

If he can continue to contribute, then I don't care how many goals he scores, we'll get goals from other areas as was proven yesterday.

Funny that. If Lukaku had won the penalty and that freekick people would be raving for 5-star performance and how he made the difference. Torres does it and it is okay performance. He can't win, can he? But we've been through this also 25 times so...

Maybe some would. Personally I wouldn't. I call it like it is, and so do lots of others on the forum so I think you're being unfair, the reason why Torres gets criticism so often is because... Well , you work it out! Centre forward could be the difference for this team this season. We simply cannot continue with Torres anymore, luckily I suspect Jose feels the same.

Incidentally , I didn't think he was our weakest player yesterday, I thought that was Hazard who looked a little off the pace.

Edited August 19, 201312 yr by bjd

I thought it was Cole, a lot of attacks broke down when he got the ball.

Maybe some would. Personally I wouldn't. I call it like it is, and so do lots of others on the forum so I think you're being unfair, the reason why Torres gets criticism so often is because... Well , you work it out! Centre forward could be the difference for this team this season. We simply cannot continue with Torres anymore, luckily I suspect Jose feels the same.

Incidentally , I didn't think he was our weakest player yesterday, I thought that was Hazard who looked a little off the pace.

Well it would make everyone's life a lot easier if we had a centre forward who did score. But Torres isn't one. Yesterday he did enough on other areas though. Got us a pen, won us a crucial freekick, sent Lampard through on goal and was very lively. Good game from the man and he was on par with the rest of our attacking players.

Lets hope Lukaku and Mr. X are the ones who do score for us this season.

If he starts over 10 matches in the League for us this season and performs like he did against Hull it will cost us, we should not be counting on our Midfielders to score important goals that's a striker's job.

 

I didn't see any difference between the player last night and the player who took 14 matches to get his first goal; went on 24 hour scoring drought; went 6 months without a goal in the League. Decent is reserved for teams that don't have our ambitions, as proved by last season decent and passenger performances will not win us the League. Opposition defenders aren't going to be afraid of our striker because he works hard or he links up decently. They are going to be instilled with fear when we have a striker who bullies them, knows how to move inside the box; knows how to get in shooting position and all those things are things that Torres is below average at best. 

 

Roll on Lukaku you have nothing to worry about based on this performance

Surprised at this thread - I thought his link-up play was very good last night, had some great touches that I can't see Lukaku/Ba being able to play.

Torres got virtually no service yesterday, so the stick he's getting is entirely undeserved.

His link up play, even though he dropped a couple of passes short, was good.

People have to understand that our team is geared so that the attacking 3 will be scoring the majority of the goals.

If Torres can link up with those 3, and score when he DOES receive through balls/good service, then he'll of had a great season.

How do they work that stat out? does it count if you were dribbling the ball? i.e if you were dribbling the ball is that 1 touch, 2 touches, 3 touches etc.

 

Genuine question.

 

 

Don't know, just heard the stat mentioned on SKY after the game. Does it really matter? The fact is our right back had touched/dribbled/received the ball in the box more often than our centre-forward.

 

That might not make a difference against the likes of Hull City but possibly will against the likes of United.

Do I think a Rooney, Suarez, Van Persie would improve our chances of winning the league? Yes.

 

Do I think we can with the league with Torres? Yes

 

He's a good option, not the best but he's ok. You take Van persie out of that Utd team against Swansea and it's a different game. Swansea were controlling that game and Van persie's class overshadowed a average united performance in my opinion.

 

Torres had more good moments than bad, he got himself into numerous positions where he could of had service but the pass was not there. Nobody can deny that, Oscar could of squared it for his goal and there was options on when KDB tried to go from range and when Ramires got played in.

 

Mourinho started with Torres, he had the option of Lukaku and Ba. So Fernando must be doing something right to impress.

Torres starting against Hull means Lukaku was being saved for Villa/Utd (i.e the better teams). Nano seems to be #2 in Jose's eyes. One thing that hasn't help Torres is that as the squad he plays with improves in quality he more and more looks just average.

I expect Ba to be sold when or if Chelsea sign another striker.

 

Either way we have a great chance to win the League this season.  

Torres got virtually no service yesterday, so the stick he's getting is entirely undeserved.

His link up play, even though he dropped a couple of passes short, was good.

People have to understand that our team is geared so that the attacking 3 will be scoring the majority of the goals.

Oh my. Please not the service issue. Please....

So what you are saying is that it's fine to have a centre forward who doesn't score? If so we should've signed Heskey. He'd have been a whole cheaper after all. It's probably a new low in this pathetic saga when people are saying that actually, we shouldn't be expecting Torres to score after all....

Even with the creativity behind him you should still occasionally expect your striker to create something or... actually forget it, just can't do this again

Edited August 19, 201312 yr by bjd

Yep, we don't create enough chances; it has nothing to do with Torres being unable to try and beat his marker inside the box; or run towards the far post or near post ahead of his marker. Even during Oscar's goal where he was not in a position to score he was strolling expecting a cut back instead of sprinting. Hazard who started off the move would have ended up in Torres's position while Torres could have gotten to the far post in case the shot went astray or the goalkeeper got a hand/foot to it.  

Don't know, just heard the stat mentioned on SKY after the game. Does it really matter? The fact is our right back had touched/dribbled/received the ball in the box more often than our centre-forward.

 

That might not make a difference against the likes of Hull City but possibly will against the likes of United.

 

It doesn't really matter, just that Ivan had that run into the penalty box when he should of got a penalty, now I'm not sure how many times he touched the ball in the box, but lets say it was 3, then there's 3 of his 6 touches.

 

I think it's an easy stat to use to beat someone up with, but is really an irrelevance.

 

For example Torres might touch the ball once in the penalty box and score, where as Ivan might play keepy up in the box and touch the ball 30 times, but do nothing with it.

 

That could be relevant of any players, not just these 2.

 

How many times did Oscar touch the ball in the box? All we know is that 1 of those touches was decisive.

I think if Lukaku had the game Torres did yesterday he'd be getting praised.

 

I didn't want Torres to start but he did decently and has probably done enough to warrant more starts in the near future.

Shots off target 17, shots on target 5 makes 23 attempts against Hull...not sure how we didn't try to create or score. Torres just wasn't the last man in those moves or attempts which ultimately is a problem.

It doesn't really matter, just that Ivan had that run into the penalty box when he should of got a penalty, now I'm not sure how many times he touched the ball in the box, but lets say it was 3, then there's 3 of his 6 touches.

 

I think it's an easy stat to use to beat someone up with, but is really an irrelevance.

 

For example Torres might touch the ball once in the penalty box and score, where as Ivan might play keepy up in the box and touch the ball 30 times, but do nothing with it.

 

That could be relevant of any players, not just these 2.

 

How many times did Oscar touch the ball in the box? All we know is that 1 of those touches was decisive.

 

 

Touches are basically not counted individually, touches refers to when a player receives possession - not how long and how many times he touches the ball when he does have possession. 

 

What is relevant is that our defenders are more likely to receive the ball inside the box than our striker. 

I think if Lukaku had the game Torres did yesterday he'd be getting praised.

 

I didn't want Torres to start but he did decently and has probably done enough to warrant more starts in the near future.

Agreed.

 

There wasn't much else he could have done in the first half, misplaced some passes but everyone in the final third did. He made some good runs but wasn't picked out, with his two best movement into space not being rewarded with the final pass from Oscar and Hazard who both went for hopeless shots. Second half, well no point mentioning it really as we clearly didn't try too hard to increase our lead. 

 

Could Lukaku have done just as well? Probably, still doesn't make it any less of a decent performance though. 

Yep, we don't create enough chances; it has nothing to do with Torres being unable to try and beat his marker inside the box; or run towards the far post or near post ahead of his marker. Even during Oscar's goal where he was not in a position to score he was strolling expecting a cut back instead of sprinting. Hazard who started off the move would have ended up in Torres's position while Torres could have gotten to the far post in case the shot went astray or the goalkeeper got a hand/foot to it.  

There is a rule in football and it has been around since football was created. It is called the offside rule. If torres goes sprinting to the far post for the oscar goal then he would of been offside. He had to hang behind the ball otherwise he would of been offside. 

Touches are basically not counted individually, touches refers to when a player receives possession - not how long and how many times he touches the ball when he does have possession. 

 

What is relevant is that our defenders are more likely to receive the ball inside the box than our striker. 

 

Thanks for answering my question from above, I didn't know how that stat worked.

 

What is also relevant is that Ivan touched the ball 6 times in the box and Torres once, however neither player scored, and thats the only stat that matters in football.

There is a rule in football and it has been around since football was created. It is called the offside rule. If torres goes sprinting to the far post for the oscar goal then he would of been offside. He had to hang behind the ball otherwise he would of been offside. 

To add onto this post, with the way the goalkeeper spread his body, the angle and speed at which Oscar was attacking the ball and the direction at which the defender was tracking back, it would have had to be a series of very unfortunate events for the ball to reach the other post for a tap in. 

 

As a matter of fact, Torres played a easy but still crucial role in that goal. He pulls the defender towards him which allows Oscar to make the run and give him time for a shot before the defender can get anywhere near him. The nature and speed of the pass caught him out a bit so he played the percentages and hung back for a cutback which was probably a better choice as the defender would have been completely flat footed. 

Edited August 19, 201312 yr by Remodez

There is a rule in football and it has been around since football was created. It is called the offside rule. If torres goes sprinting to the far post for the oscar goal then he would of been offside. He had to hang behind the ball otherwise he would of been offside. 

 

He would not have been offside because the defender who was guarding Torres went to try and intercept Oscar and that same defender was 2-3 meters ahead of Torres by the time Oscar took his shot. Torres as usual slowed down and clogged an area of the box which Hazard was running into. In fact it was more realistic for Hazard to end up scoring a rebound than Torres who expected a cut back which would never occur

 

 

 

Thanks for answering my question from above, I didn't know how that stat worked.

 

What is also relevant is that Ivan touched the ball 6 times in the box and Torres once, however neither player scored, and thats the only stat that matters in football.

 

 

There is a reason defenders don't end up in double digits, and that's why you have forwards - but when your defenders are more likely option inside the box than your forward obviously it's not the defenders fault for providing an option and wasting an opportunity. If our striker had touched the ball 6 times inside the box it was more likely for us to have a good shot on goal and goal chance created than hoping A.Cole/Ivanovic etc to come from deep and be on the end of a move. 

 

As I've said the touch stat inside the box simply shows that Torres is not in a position to receive a ball in the box for large portion of matches, which is not normal. 

Edited August 19, 201312 yr by Las7

Efficient sums it up. Didn't need to score but did his part in the link up. Did we win? Yes. Did he cost us the match? No. Had Lukaku started and done the same would we be be so critical? No. Fickle we are.

Savor the win. He started. He didn't cost us the match. Move on.

ATM he's the best option we have.

What we don't know though is what instruction any of our players are given, so it may be (I doubt it) that Torres/Lukaku/Ba are told to pull central defenders out of place to create space for our gifted attacking midfielders.

 

I also can't remember although some might be able to, where Ivans touches were in the box, were they in goal scoring positions or passing/crossing positions?

 

The point I'm trying to make is that stats can used to justify lots of different things, and IMO this stat is not massively relevant unless broken down to each individual touch.