mactheknife Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 OK a bit of a random post I know, and not it may not be in the right section (mods please move appropriately).My friend was making a flops Chelsea XI from the Abramovich era (A Liverpool fan-oh the irony) and whilst the side included about 5 strikers, he also included Tiago.Personally I thought this was extremely unfair as he played pretty much every game in our record points breaking year and he has the highest win % of any player who has played over 20 pl games.I guess my question is a more broader question. Can players who arrive with pretty low expectations and are primarily be bought in to 'do a job' be considered a flop? When you think of players like Moses and Ba who put in decent performances and came with no real expectations, is it unfair to consider them a flop, when they inevitably just do their job. I mean my friend also put Hilario in goal, but he's a third choice keeper. Albeit he is shocking, but we signed him to just be a back up keeper. Is it unfair to critisice these players who cost relatively little and do the required job when expected upon. My friend also put Ferreira in the flops them- my question to him was 'where is Bosingwa'.Having typed my ramblings, and the realising the 10th Abramovich year has just finished, I realised this would be a good time to ask who would you say is in your Abramovich flops XI (with a manager)
big blue Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 tiago was a good squad player, scored an absolute screamer at old Trafford, and if it was for lyon rating him so highly we wouldn't have lost him in the essien deal. okay his career hasn't hit the heights of that season since, but id say he was a sucess here considering we got back slightly more than we paid for him after just one season turnbull is more of a flop than hilario, who I think as far as 3rd choice keepers go, isnt that bad. surely a flop must be determined by expectation. big money signings have bigger expectations and therefore more scope to fail.
Backbiter Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 No way was he a flop. He was a workhorse who didn't catch the eye as a midfielder, but he was an effective player in that record-breaking team. Another player who arrived about the same time but is seen as a flop was Smertin. I disagree. He didn't get many opprtunities but always worked his nuts off.
Bobbywoodhogan Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Tiago wasn't a flop at all, I really rated him
DannyD Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 I don't think he was a flop. I was sad to see him go at the time. That screamer v the mancs was something else.
Joust Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Was he confusing Tiago with Maniche perhaps?, only conclusion I can really think of, Tiago was a good player, hardly a flop. Can't decide on a keeper, don't think either Turnbull or Hilario were really "flops"....Maybe that lad we signed off Chievo, can't remember his name.....Bosingwa - Huth - Boulharouz - Del Horno Mineiro (cost nothing, but did f**k all hahah) Veron Smertin/ Nuno Morais (In the same bracket as Mineiro really) Queresma Mutu Sheva (Maybe Kezman with the hype, but Sheva's price pips him)Granted Queresma was only a loan, but the lad was all hype and not worth the hairs on my backside.
Bobbywoodhogan Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Quaresma does not deserve to be in the flops, when he cane he barely got a chance and when he did play he performed very well. The manager if flops XI would have to be Scolari
Remodez Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Bosingwa was not a flop, we got two, perhaps two and a half, good seasons out of him and and amazing performances in our Champions League run near the end with him playing unfamiliar roles at left back and centre back. If he's considered a flop then I think we've set the bar a bit too high.
CunningStunt Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Not a flop. Good squad player who contributed to our successes while he was here.
Bobbywoodhogan Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Bosingwa was not a flop, we got two, perhaps two and a half, good seasons out of him and and amazing performances in our Champions League run near the end with him playing unfamiliar roles at left back and centre back. If he's considered a flop then I think we've set the bar a bit too high. Yeah that's true actually, although I've never rated him defensively there was a time when he bombed forward the opposition was in trouble
DannyD Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Was he confusing Tiago with Maniche perhaps?, only conclusion I can really think of, Tiago was a good player, hardly a flop. Can't decide on a keeper, don't think either Turnbull or Hilario were really "flops"....Maybe that lad we signed off Chievo, can't remember his name..... Bosingwa - Huth - Boulharouz - Del Horno Mineiro (cost nothing, but did f**k all hahah) Veron Smertin/ Nuno Morais (In the same bracket as Mineiro really) Queresma Mutu Sheva (Maybe Kezman with the hype, but Sheva's price pips him) Granted Queresma was only a loan, but the lad was all hype and not worth the hairs on my backside. That lineup really made me cringe lol
Joust Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) I was plucking at straws with that 11 I know, OP suggested to make a "flop" 11, and I warmed the challenge of thinking of our worst abramovich 11, not particularly all flops. I don't think every one of those players was utterly sh*t (Bosingwa mainly), but I would love for someone else to enlighten me of more appropriate players. I didn't set out to demean all those players, just an honest reply to our worst abramovich 11. Not all particularly flops like I said as a few were free and all. Like I said, I would love to be enlightened. Edited May 19, 2013 by Joust
DannyD Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Oh I cringed because I imagined them on the pitch, not because I thought your XI was a bad choice.
PloKoon13 Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Hilario and Tiago were/are both very good. I'm even a little uncomfortable calling Bosingwa a flop, despite the fact that he was awful more often than not. Even Torres scored in the Europa League Final but I figure it doesn't really outweigh how bad he was the rest of the time. ------------------------------Turnbull Bosingwa------Boulahrouz------Ben Haim------Del Horno ---------------------Veron----------Sidwell (?) ----Wright-Phillips--------------------------------Mutu --------------------Kezman--------------Torres
DannyD Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 The thing about Torres is his pricetag really. He's not been awful, but we paid well over the odds for him and that created a huge expectation.
jack_super_class Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Hilario and Tiago were/are both very good. I'm even a little uncomfortable calling Bosingwa a flop, despite the fact that he was awful more often than not. Even Torres scored in the Europa League Final but I figure it doesn't really outweigh how bad he was the rest of the time. ------------------------------Turnbull Bosingwa------------Ben Haim------Del Horno ---------------------Veron----------Sidwell (?) ----Wright-Phillips--------------------------------Mutu --------------------Kezman--------------Torres Ah Boulahrouz god he was awful. Wouldn't have Bosingwa in there, i wouldn't call him a flop at all.
Jonty Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Amusing that all our "flops" would walk in to the bin dippers first team.
icecoolguy22 Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Not another thread to bash the current/past players, please. I thought Tiago was good, one goal against United was memortable, and he did play in a number of big matches. He just wanted more football, decided to go, and things haven't panned out well for him. Veron was past it when we signed him, another example why you never buy used goods from United. Sidwell was never going to cut it here, so was Beh Haim, couldn't remember the logic to sign them.
DaRick Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Nah. Granted he wasn't Essien, but he was still an important part of our 2004/05 PL winning team. Hardly a flop.
Teritus Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Was he confusing Tiago with Maniche perhaps?, only conclusion I can really think of, Tiago was a good player, hardly a flop. Can't decide on a keeper, don't think either Turnbull or Hilario were really "flops"....Maybe that lad we signed off Chievo, can't remember his name..... Bosingwa - Huth - Boulharouz - Del Horno Mineiro (cost nothing, but did f**k all hahah) Veron Smertin/ Nuno Morais (In the same bracket as Mineiro really) Queresma Mutu Sheva (Maybe Kezman with the hype, but Sheva's price pips him) Granted Queresma was only a loan, but the lad was all hype and not worth the hairs on my backside. No Jarosik?
Englishman Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 I liked Tiago, I don't think many wanted to see him leave. Surely a flop is someone who fails to live up to high expectations. Smertin, Sidwell, Maniche and co were fringe players at best and never intended to be anything else. On that basis, I'm not sure I can make a full XI, so Sheva, Torres, Veron, Mutu, SWP.
Celery1989 Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Bosingwa was not a flop, we got two, perhaps two and a half, good seasons out of him and and amazing performances in our Champions League run near the end with him playing unfamiliar roles at left back and centre back. If he's considered a flop then I think we've set the bar a bit too high. Sorry but I can't believe Bosingwa lasted as long as he did. He was poor defensively and for an attacking fullback his crossing was very inconsistent indeed. He stepped up in the CL run though, you're correct about that. However he was poor for the majority of his Chelsea career, and for £16 Million returned very little.
Uno Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 No way i would say Tiago was a flop. He didnt ever really do anything wrong. I wasnt sure when we bought him. I didnt think we really needed him but from the time he had with us he was a decent player. Didnt cost very much either. All in all we have made a lot worse signings than Tiago over the last 10 years. Top 3 worse signings for me are Veron, Torres and Del Horno. There are of course others but they are the big ones that sick out for me. People say Sheva and he wasnt as much of a goal scoring machine as he once was but we bought him too late and he was played out of position a lot of the time but he always worked hard. Never saw him sulk or moan to the media like Torres has done in the past. He was a true gent with us and should be remembered as so.
DaRick Posted May 20, 2013 Posted May 20, 2013 Bosingwa was pretty good in his first season from memory (2008/09), but he deteriorated gradually after that long-term knee injury, going from mediocre (2010/11) to horrific (2011/12). He did well enough in the CL to make up for it though, albeit sometimes at CB and not RB.
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