the way I see it, Hazard is close to his full potential already.  His body is already fully peaked and his physical attributes won't get better (same with Lukaku)

 

However, both KDB and Oscar still have ways to go.  I still think Oscar has the biggest potential and the longest career out of everyone (barring major injury).   

 

People have a misconception that players will automatically improve and improve as they grow older.  Some players peak early, others don't.  

Because he obviously has the potential to be one of the best players in the prem in a few years, but he loses the ball a lot, misplaces passes, wastes chances, can get knocked off the ball easily at times etc and these are what are stopping him from being a great player currently. I don't doubt that he can be a great player but right now I'm seeing his as a great potential rather than a great player.

And yet this raw misplacing passes chance wasting player settled extremely well into a new country and league, played an incredible amount of games last season and was man of the match for his country 7 times on the bang, impressive enough for any country but doubly so for Brazil. He isnt raw at all, he is a young player settling into a completely new environment and league, and I look forward to seeing even more from him this season once Jose takes hold of him. 

 

As for this:-

 

but even when playing as a nr 10 for brazil, i think he tends to go missing for long periods of time, and to make too many errors

 

 

 

Wow, I once again refer you to the 7 man of the matches on the trot, so it seems its only you that believes he goes missing for long periods and makes too many errors.

 

What is this new chelsea fan thing of continually talking down our players, its very strange. Do other clubs fans do this also, I just cant understand how some "fans" seem to revel in talking don just how good our talent is. Every single prem team would take Oscar in a breath, every one of them. in fact every team in Europe would.

From the BBC:

 

Ajax sporting director Marc Overmars fears Marco van Ginkel could stall his career by moving to Chelsea.

 

The Amsterdam side wanted to sign the 20-year-old Vitesse Arnhem midfielder themselves, but lost out to the Blues.

 

"Van Ginkel is a great young talent and we would have liked him to come to Ajax," Overmars told BBC Sport.

"Whether it is too early for him to go to Chelsea or not, I don't know. With us, he would have played a lot of games and played in the Champions League."

 

 

Sounds like Sour Grapes to me.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, if van Ginkel is good enough, he will play. We needed to improve our midfield and hopefully the lad can do just that. 

We knew that it was important for the lad to get his time of play, and if he did sign with us he proboaly got somthing out of mourinho, i hope he will get lots of min's and proove himself. i dont remember the time we had a 21 star on the field on a regular basis.

We knew that it was important for the lad to get his time of play, and if he did sign with us he proboaly got somthing out of mourinho, i hope he will get lots of min's and proove himself. i dont remember the time we had a 21 star on the field on a regular basis.

Oscar? He's still only 21.

let me correct myself, i dont rembmber the time we had two 21 year old starS on the field on a regular basis (:

I cant believe the amount of people saying 'once Rameires is sold'  bloody hell if ever there was a JM player its Rambo. He's class, strong,quick,can play probably anywhere he's full of running. i'd be gutted if we sold him.....i think he's brilliant.

Edited July 5, 201313 yr by c3blu2

Ill have to admit never heard of him is he worth all the hype?

Ill have to admit never heard of him is he worth all the hype?

 

theres hype?

I cant believe the amount of people saying 'once Rameires is sold' bloody hell if ever there was a JM player its Rambo. He's class, strong,quick,can play probably anywhere he's full of running. i'd be gutted if we sold him.....i think he's brilliant.

Whilst I don't think he's brilliant, I do think he's necessary. His injection of speed can be a game changer. Not too mention he loves his club. Never gives up!

How do you know he loves the club?

How do you know he loves the club?

 

Because they pay him lots of money. 

Surely his nickname has to be Dick.

Surely his nickname has to be Dick.

or Rip

José Mourinho personally assured Marco van Ginkel that he would be granted significant first-team football with Chelsea to convince the Holland international to swap Vitesse Arnhem for the Premier League, with the young midfielder expected to complete a £9m move to Stamford Bridge on Friday.

 

Van Ginkel, who made his senior international debut against Germany last November, was a key member of the Vitesse side who finished fourth in the Eredivisie last season, their highest placing since 1998, and was voted the best young player in the Netherlands at the end of the campaign. Ajax declared an interest in taking him to Amsterdam earlier this summer and the 20-year-old's instinct was to make that step up before seeking a move at an elite club in either England or Spain.

 

Indeed, the Dutch champions believed they were close to securing his services with the promise of an integral role in their lineup. "Van Ginkel is a great young talent and we would have liked him to come to Ajax," said Marc Overmars, who is now sporting director at the Amsterdam ArenA club. "Whether it is too early for him to go to Chelsea or not, I don't know. With us, he would have played a lot of games and played in the Champions League."

 

But Mourinho spoke with the player and, much to Ajax's disappointment, convinced the youngster he would feature regularly rather than following the likes of other recent signings, such as Kevin de Bruyne and Romelu Lukaku, by continuing their development on loan elsewhere. The Portuguese considers Van Ginkel as the long-term successor to Frank Lampard in Chelsea's midfield and hopes he can learn from the veteran, who signed a one-year contract extension at the club back in May, within the senior set-up.

 

Chelsea were always favourites to secure Van Ginkel – Manchester United were among a number of other clubs who had also tracked the player – as a result of their close relationship with Vitesse, born of the friendship between Roman Abramovich and the Dutch club's Georgian owner, Merab Jordania. The likes of Tomas Kalas, Patrick van Aanholt, Gaël Kakuta and Nemanja Matic have spent time on loan in Arnhem, with the Londoners having watched Van Ginkel's progress with interest from afar. The midfielder joined Vitesse at the age of seven in 1999 and progressed through the youth ranks before making his Eredivisie debut at 17.

 

He hopes to feature at the World Cup finals in Brazil, but to do that he must make an impact in the Chelsea first-team. Mourinho is confident he can be integrated: the player is comfortable in the 4-3-3 system the manager intends to implement, and boasts the physique and box-to-box energy and eye for goal that have drawn the inevitable comparisons with Lampard. He scored eight goals in 33 appearances last season.

 

 

 

 

Original Article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/05/marco-van-ginkel-chelsea-move-vitesse

And yet this raw misplacing passes chance wasting player settled extremely well into a new country and league, played an incredible amount of games last season and was man of the match for his country 7 times on the bang, impressive enough for any country but doubly so for Brazil. He isnt raw at all, he is a young player settling into a completely new environment and league, and I look forward to seeing even more from him this season once Jose takes hold of him. 

You're making it out that I'm saying he's sh*t. He WILL be a better player this season as he will be every season, but you're making out that he was amazing this season, he did well but he still has a lot of work to do before he can be considered a great player, he has a great footballing brain he just needs to be better at putting it onto the pitch. As I previously said, it also hasn't helped that he's been played in the wrong position, not that he could play behind the striker instead of Mata anyway.

You're making it out that I'm saying he's sh*t. He WILL be a better player this season as he will be every season, but you're making out that he was amazing this season, he did well but he still has a lot of work to do before he can be considered a great player, he has a great footballing brain he just needs to be better at putting it onto the pitch. As I previously said, it also hasn't helped that he's been played in the wrong position, not that he could play behind the striker instead of Mata anyway.

 

I think the reason why his touch and passes became suspect later on the season was due to fatigue (long season  + general game workrate).  His long ball passing in the U-23 tournament last summer was fantastic.  

 

Also, I think he lost a lot of confidence/care after the whole debacle with Rafa benching him in the Champ game in Japan.  

I kind of wish we didn't sign Lampard.  

 

We could of given the time for Van Ginkel, Oscar and KDB to try out the pivot position.  

I kind of wish we didn't sign Lampard.  

 

We could of given the time for Van Ginkel, Oscar and KDB to try out the pivot position.  

 

Take cover.

 

José Mourinho personally assured Marco van Ginkel that he would be granted significant first-team football with Chelsea to convince the Holland international to swap Vitesse Arnhem for the Premier League, with the young midfielder expected to complete a £9m move to Stamford Bridge on Friday.

 

Van Ginkel, who made his senior international debut against Germany last November, was a key member of the Vitesse side who finished fourth in the Eredivisie last season, their highest placing since 1998, and was voted the best young player in the Netherlands at the end of the campaign. Ajax declared an interest in taking him to Amsterdam earlier this summer and the 20-year-old's instinct was to make that step up before seeking a move at an elite club in either England or Spain.

 

Indeed, the Dutch champions believed they were close to securing his services with the promise of an integral role in their lineup. "Van Ginkel is a great young talent and we would have liked him to come to Ajax," said Marc Overmars, who is now sporting director at the Amsterdam ArenA club. "Whether it is too early for him to go to Chelsea or not, I don't know. With us, he would have played a lot of games and played in the Champions League."

 

But Mourinho spoke with the player and, much to Ajax's disappointment, convinced the youngster he would feature regularly rather than following the likes of other recent signings, such as Kevin de Bruyne and Romelu Lukaku, by continuing their development on loan elsewhere. The Portuguese considers Van Ginkel as the long-term successor to Frank Lampard in Chelsea's midfield and hopes he can learn from the veteran, who signed a one-year contract extension at the club back in May, within the senior set-up.

 

Chelsea were always favourites to secure Van Ginkel – Manchester United were among a number of other clubs who had also tracked the player – as a result of their close relationship with Vitesse, born of the friendship between Roman Abramovich and the Dutch club's Georgian owner, Merab Jordania. The likes of Tomas Kalas, Patrick van Aanholt, Gaël Kakuta and Nemanja Matic have spent time on loan in Arnhem, with the Londoners having watched Van Ginkel's progress with interest from afar. The midfielder joined Vitesse at the age of seven in 1999 and progressed through the youth ranks before making his Eredivisie debut at 17.

 

He hopes to feature at the World Cup finals in Brazil, but to do that he must make an impact in the Chelsea first-team. Mourinho is confident he can be integrated: the player is comfortable in the 4-3-3 system the manager intends to implement, and boasts the physique and box-to-box energy and eye for goal that have drawn the inevitable comparisons with Lampard. He scored eight goals in 33 appearances last season.

 

 

 

 

Original Article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/05/marco-van-ginkel-chelsea-move-vitesse

 

 

So, we are def. playing 4-3-3 next season?  

After the strongly fancied Holland Under-21 side's disappointing exit in last month's European Championship final, Johan Cruyff penned two pieces in De Telegraaf on his favourite subject: youth development. His second came with a piece of advice: none of the Eredivisie-based players are ready to move abroad. A week later Marco van Ginkel signed for Chelsea.

When the story initially broke it raised a few eyebrows as many felt he wasn't ready for this kind of move. There were reservations, notably playing time; Van Ginkel shared them as well, however two conversations with Jose Mourinho, who admired him from afar during his time at Real Madrid, put him at ease.

The returning Portuguese manager, who sees Van Ginkel as Frank Lampard's long-term successor, is set to be youth orientated in his second administration. The next generation will get their chance. A move to Chelsea represents a giant step forward for a player that is continuously improving.

He is ambitious and in the last 18 months has blossomed to stand out from his peers, through an unwavering will to succeed and be the best. He will need this mindset if he's to forge a career as stellar as Lampard's. Though it's another Englishman he used as a reference; growing up he looked to Steven Gerrard, in a recent interview with Algemeen Dagblad he named Bastian Schweinsteiger as his role model.

Van Ginkel, born in Amersfoort, the second largest city of the province of Utrecht, in 1992, joined S.V. de Valleivogels based in Scherpenzeel aged seven, and joined Vitesse's academy three years later. He made his professional debut for the yellow-black in April 2010 under club icon Theo Bos. His first goal came in August that year against Ajax; since then he's amassed nearly a century of league games, still only 20 but a veteran by Eredivisie standards. The burden of responsibility hasn't been a hindrance, instead being a vital cog has only accelerated his maturation. His father Alex, who played a single season as a professional for FC Utrecht, is his biggest supporter and critic.

In the last three years he's become a popular figure in the dressing room and crowd, subsequently nicknamed 'Justin Bieber' due to a resemblance. Last season was his breakthrough which culminated in him winning the prestigious'Dutch Football Talent of the Year', or Johan Cruyff award.

Everything about him shone: playmaking/creativity, vision, intelligent movement and spatial awareness ­ playing as a 'number eight' ­ combining individual skill with stamina and defensive qualities but also with an eye for goal (eight in 33 appearances last term plus 10 assists). He's also aerially strong with a passing technique, comfortable with both feet, that is above average for a Dutch midfielder and given the already high standard it holds him in good stead.

At the moment he is good but his potential is frightening. In every interview he comes across well, eloquent and down-to-earth. He enjoys life but remains unperturbed. You won't see him making front page news (unless he scores the winner for Oranje in a major international tournament).

The partnership with controlling midfielder Theo Janssen was cornerstone to Vitesse's success last season; finishing in fourth, their highest position for more than a decade. Janssen, who took Van Ginkel under his wing, feels patience is required.

"I think he is ready for a next step, but the step to Chelsea is very big," he told NUsport. "Eventually I think he will reach that level. The question is only if he will reach that level already, or if he needs some time to adapt. I think the last one."

Earlier this year then Everton manager David Moyes considered a move. Juventus were also rumoured to be interested and Marco van Basten even recommended him to Silvio Berlusconi. It shouldn't be surprising: Van Ginkel is the blueprint for the modern midfielder. Van Ginkel is undoubtedly one of the more exciting Dutch talents from arguably the most promising generation since the early 1990s.

It's now a question of where he'd fit in Mourinho's system. Vitesse under Fred Rutten last season also played 4-2-3-1; Van Ginkel ­ alongside Janssen was one half of the double pivot in front of the defence, but he's no 'defensive midfielder', instead he describes himself as a modern dynamic box-to-box midfielder. Competition, which is a good thing, will be rife as the Dutchman would contend with Lampard, Ramires, Oriol Romeu, Michael Essien and John Obi Mikel if he remains.

As mentioned above Mourinho sees him as Lampard's successor; today Chelsea's all-time goal scorer plays in a deeper role, but in his prime was a second striker, a role Van Ginkel could grow into and make his own. He has the verve and tactical understanding is refined the result of being educated and developed in the Dutch football system.

He is a rare kind of midfielder in the Netherlands these days; you'll find a great quantity of destroyers, out-and-out playmakers ('number ten'), deep-lying midfielders and controllers. Kevin Strootman and Leroy Fer; two of his contemporaries are box-to-box, but are more defensively minded whereas Van Ginkel is on the front foot.

It is for that very reason national team manager Louis van Gaal is keeping tabs. Van Gaal made it clear from day one those not playing can expect to not be called-up. Van Ginkel is in a tricky situation as he is on the verge of cementing a regular spot in the squad in time for next summer's World Cup. He made his senior debut in the goalless draw against Germany last November as a second half substitute.

His impressive performances at the U21 Euros; energy and athleticism, reinforced why Van Gaal is a fan. He could be a valuable asset especially after Italian manager Cesare Prandelli said next year in Brazil you "will need not just 23 footballers in the squad but 23 athletes."

On the plus side Van Gaal, who is close friends with Mourinho dating back from their Barcelona days, can be kept up-to-date on Van Ginkel's progress and development. Chelsea it should be noted weren't his first choice; Ajax was, but Vitesse were unwilling to sell to a "competitor".

If Van Ginkel doesn't play regularly, a loan might be a good option; but he won't be thinking about that. Instead he'll be focusing on becoming a regular starting member of Chelsea's team, showing his worth under Mourinho and proving Cruyff wrong in the process.

 http://pickourteam.com/premierleague/news/05-07-2013/chelsea-transfer-talk-van-ginkel-long-term-lampard-successor/836648#ixzz2YArl0Rlh

 

 

If he reaches his full potential we evidently have a good player on hands. I can see JM installing the same belief he gave to Frank. Good move by the club in securing his services at a price we simply can't be bitten on and full marks to Emanelo who is acquiring this young talent.

Did i read that wrong or did it say Jose was going to go back to the 4-3-3 system?

You're making it out that I'm saying he's sh*t. He WILL be a better player this season as he will be every season, but you're making out that he was amazing this season, he did well but he still has a lot of work to do before he can be considered a great player, he has a great footballing brain he just needs to be better at putting it onto the pitch. As I previously said, it also hasn't helped that he's been played in the wrong position, not that he could play behind the striker instead of Mata anyway.

Where did I say he had an amazing season? He had a very good first season for one so young in a new league, and was superb in some games and not in others. I agree with Kobe that this was partly down to fatigue, and again down to playing in a league notoriously difficult to new players.

Did i read that wrong or did it say Jose was going to go back to the 4-3-3 system?

 

The article seems to suggest so although I'm not entirely sure what exactly that is based on. 

 

Jose is a smart fella, made he this and thought it was a brilliant idea:

 

 

I just have a feeling we will revert back to 4-3-3 this season.

 

 

 

 

Ivan/Dave - Cahill/Terry - Luiz - Cole/Bertrand

 

                 Mikel/Romeu/Essien

 

van Ginkel/Ramires/Oscar - Lampard/KDB

 

Moses/Schurrle                             Hazard/Mata

 

                     Torres/Lukaku/Ba

Jose plays 4231 now look like most managers in the game. Van Ginkel will probably play as the slightly more advanced of the 2 in the pivot, connecting the central midfield to the creative trio.

 

There's a good article below from the Mirror which profiles MVG and explains where he's likely to play. The Mirror mistakenly refer to Jose's current formation of preference as a 433 when it is a 4231.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/marco-van-ginkel-profile-chelsea-2028133?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter