Whenever Willian has played in a central role under previous managers, including in the #10 position he's look really poor. 

No way can I see him being deployed in the midfield. 

Only wants a three year extension apparently.

3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Whenever Willian has played in a central role under previous managers, including in the #10 position he's look really poor. 

No way can I see him being deployed in the midfield. 

There's no way he should play in a middle 3, he has almost no attributes necessary for that role other than defensive energy. 

2 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Only wants a three year extension apparently.

Wasn't that last year?  or has he now come out with it again?

45 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Wasn't that last year?  or has he now come out with it again?

Just the usual gossip papers and whatnot reporting it at the moment, nothing from the player that i've seen. Think he's got a year and a half left on his deal so probably right that he's looking for an extension though. Imagine he'll either end up with an extra year or be sold in summer.

OK - I saw something from last summer or so where he wanted another three years. 

I think you're right, either off this summer or a year's extension to keep the  price up above a very reasonable £65million 

3 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

OK - I saw something from last summer or so where he wanted another three years. 

I think you're right, either off this summer or a year's extension to keep the  price up above a very reasonable £65million 

Don't you read the tweets yorkley?  We quoted PSG 70m for Willian 

Was clicking through the all time Premier League stats for Chelsea players just now and came across this. 

Willian is our all time 12th highest appearance maker in the Premier League with 190 appearances. 

He is our 16th on the list for goals scored with 28. 

Just shy of a goal every 7 matches. 

Just ahead of him is Dennis Wise who scored 33 in 261 appearances (average of a goal every 8 games). 

Malouda 35 goals in 149 appearances (goal every 4 games). 

Poyet 105 appearances 36 goals (goal every 3 games).

And Pedro is one goal behind him with 27 goals in 115 games (goal every 4 games).

To me, this highlights my biggest peeve with Willian, his goal output is awful for a player to have been given so many games and gets to take a huge percentage of set pieces. 

17 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Was clicking through the all time Premier League stats for Chelsea players just now and came across this. 

Willian is our all time 12th highest appearance maker in the Premier League with 190 appearances. 

He is our 16th on the list for goals scored with 28. 

Just shy of a goal every 7 matches. 

Just ahead of him is Dennis Wise who scored 33 in 261 appearances (average of a goal every 8 games). 

Malouda 35 goals in 149 appearances (goal every 4 games). 

Poyet 105 appearances 36 goals (goal every 3 games).

And Pedro is one goal behind him with 27 goals in 115 games (goal every 4 games).

To me, this highlights my biggest peeve with Willian, his goal output is awful for a player to have been given so many games and gets to take a huge percentage of set pieces. 

His goalscoring stats constantly surprise me with how bad they are. 

Martial had scored the same number of league goals in his whole career. 51. Martial though is 7 years younger. 

27 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

His goalscoring stats constantly surprise me with how bad they are. 

Martial had scored the same number of league goals in his whole career. 51. Martial though is 7 years younger. 

This is a team sport, individual stats do not tell the full clear picture of a players involvement within a team. Kante is a prime example.

Lets compare silverware Willian v Martial....

 

On 05/02/2019 at 13:53, dkw said:

There's no way he should play in a middle 3, he has almost no attributes necessary for that role other than defensive energy. 

I don't think he's even that good defensively to be honest, there's a reason Conte tried everyone bar him as wingbacks when one of Moses or Alonso were injured (out of the potential options).

6 minutes ago, coco said:

This is a team sport, individual stats do not tell the full clear picture of a players involvement within a team. Kante is a prime example.

Lets compare silverware Willian v Martial....

 

I suppose the question is, if we swapped the two, would we still have won those trophies? I think so.

23 minutes ago, coco said:

This is a team sport, individual stats do not tell the full clear picture of a players involvement within a team. Kante is a prime example.

Lets compare silverware Willian v Martial....

Kante has been deployed predominantly as a defensive player during his career so attacking stats wouldn't apply. With Kante you'd look at things like total tackles, blocks, interceptions, clean sheets to see his contribution compared to others playing in similar positions. 

Attacking players are the easiest to adjudge because of their direct contribution to goals and assists. That's their bread and butter of why they're on the field in the first place. 

Comparing trophies is strange too, especially for players 7 years apart in age and when Willian was plying his trade in a two team league in the Ukraine. 

Regardless, whichever way you spin it Willian's goal scoring record for Chelsea is comparatively poor. 

1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Regardless, whichever way you spin it Willian's goal scoring record for Chelsea is comparatively poor. consistent with his goal scoring record wherever he has played, suggesting that, when he ripped us apart in Europe, we didn't then rush to buy him for 20 goals a season. 

There you go, clarified what you were trying to say.

45 minutes ago, coco said:

This is a team sport, individual stats do not tell the full clear picture of a players involvement within a team. Kante is a prime example.

Lets compare silverware Willian v Martial....

 

Yes its a team sport. So 10 other people on the pitch won those trophies and a few had to score goals because Willian can't.

20 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

There you go, clarified what you were trying to say.

No you didn’t. You keep trying to justify Willian’s poor goal return for Chelsea by making this point.

Players who have played in the same position or deeper than him for Chelsea have a much better goal return. Willian is just a rubbish goal scorer. 

10 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

No you didn’t. You keep trying to justify Willian’s poor goal return for Chelsea by making this point.

Players who have played in the same position or deeper than him for Chelsea have a much better goal return. Willian is just a rubbish goal scorer. 

They may well have.  All I'm saying is he has NEVER been a goal scoring machine that you lot seem to think he should be, so why on earth do you all make such a fuss about it now?

I accept that, for a recognised goal scorer his return would be piss-poor.  But he wasn't bought because of his huge scoring record, and has never scored many at all, but he has a place in the team of all  of his managers despite that.

Whining about Willian not scoring 20 a season is the same as whining about Makele's poor goal return or about baby giraffes being piss-poor at ice-skating.  It's not their main function.

5 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

They may well have.  All I'm saying is he has NEVER been a goal scoring machine that you lot seem to think he should be, so why on earth do you all make such a fuss about it now?

I accept that, for a recognised goal scorer his return would be piss-poor.  But he wasn't bought because of his huge scoring record, and has never scored many at all, but he has a place in the team of all  of his managers despite that.

Whining about Willian not scoring 20 a season is the same as whining about Makele's poor goal return or about baby giraffes being piss-poor at ice-skating.  It's not their main function.

Not asking for him to score twenty a season but for a player that has been one of the three most advance players in a team that wins titles to never score double figures in a league campaign is atrocious.

It’s nothing like a defensive midfielder having a poor goal scoring record, that’s a terrible comparison.

When we bought Lampard at 23 we probably didn’t think we were buying a player that would score 20 goals a season but through ability and hard work he improved and made himself into one of the finest goal scorers the Premier League has even seen.

We bought Willian at 23 and he’s contented himself with being crap at scoring goals.

You might be okay an attacking player having a goal scoring record that some defenders comfortably better, I’m not.

What does irk me about Willian is that he has so much natural ability, he's lightning quick and can beat almost any defender in a 1v1, but he just doesn't have the end product you'd expect from a player with that much talent, he's a strange one. 

Is it too simplistic for people to grasp ? Willian is a wide forward, he has the task of stretching a defence from a wide position, not in front of goal. He plays an integral part in making space by pulling defenders out of position. He has had a hard time because the team has been short of a central striker (the one meant to get nearly all the goals.) If we had a Drogba/Costa up front to make use of the work Willian does, Willian has done his job, no matter what stats you throw out.

17 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

...............................the other side of the argument,  succinctly and cogently put.........................................

But we keep  on coming back to the fact that Willian has NEVER been a high goal scorer because it's not his job. 

@coco summed it up rather well above.

Creating the transition from defence to attack is one of his strengths (Willian, not @coco), stretching defences and interacting with Hazard, Dave and whatever tailor's dummy we have at number 9 at the time.

You and many in here might like him to be a goal machine in the true style of Brazil, but that doesn't appear to be what Mourinho, Conte or Sarri require from him, nor his Brazil international manager.

I can't  put my case any clearer than that.  If you have any rational reason why you think he should  suddenly, at age 30, or whatever he is, become a goal scorer when he has not been one throughout his career, then let me know what that is, by all means.

And, the Makele comparison is perfectly valid.  His job within the team wasn't to score goals, either.  That's what we buy strikers for.

Is it too simple for people to grasp that a goal to game ratio of 1 in 8 is rubbish for an attacking player? 

27 minutes ago, coco said:

no matter what stats you throw out.

 

12 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Is it too simple for people to grasp that a goal to game ratio of 1 in 8 is rubbish for an attacking player? 

26 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Is it too simple for people to grasp that a goal to game ratio of 1 in 8 is rubbish for an attacking player? 

If he is indeed rubbish, how did he tear us apart in the European matches, why did we buy him, and why does every manager we've had since play  him so often?

Is there a simple answer to those?

24 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

If he is indeed rubbish, how did he tear us apart in the European matches, why did we buy him, and why does every manager we've had since play  him so often?

Is there a simple answer to those?

Have I said Willian is rubbish or that his goal scoring ratio is rubbish? 

Bringing up games from 8 years ago in defence of a player? 

Why did we buy him? I don’t know, why did we buy Bakayoko, Morata, Torres etc? 

Why do managers pick him? Possibly because the wide attacking players has seen the lowest level of investment in the team in the last decade compared to every other area of the team?